Getting a horse in an outline - help!

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NorfolkEnchants

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Hi there, :)

at the moment my horse is on box rest, so i am "borrowing" a friends horse, a 17.1 hh warmblood - she is lovely - and has lovely paces, however i am struggling to keep her in an outline in transitions, and in canter.


my weakest gait was always trot, and with my horse it took me ages to get him in an outline in trot, but with this mare i can't keep it in canter.

through transitions she lifts her head up so high, and i don't know how to get it down, and in canter she evades the contact in any possible way.:rolleyes:

i've been "borrowing" her, for about 3 weeks now, after the first few rides i decided to try lunging her, and she hollows when i am lunging her too - though not the same extent. :o

my friend mainly hacks her, on a loose rein, so i understand that she is not used to going in an outline, however, she can in walk, and trot.

at first i thought maybe she wasn't fit enough to do this, but now i know she is. :cool:

i find in rising trot she is much more comfortable, and she has a lot more impulsion, but her transitions to walk or canter are a lot worse, she almost stumbles into them, with her head as high as a giraffes.

in sitting trot she is less enthusiastic but her transitions are slightly better.

RI said it may be that she is unbalanced around corners, so i asked for transitions all around the school, and it made no difference.


asked owner what she's usually like and she seemed to get a bit offended, like i was saying her horse wasn't good enough - which wasnt what i was trying to say. :(


anyway, any tips/advice gratefully recieved :D
 
Perhaps try lunging in side reins? Just started my two in them (I couldnt be bothered farting around altering the fake pessoa for both of them), and it seems to help. They both stretch into the reins, instead of sticking head up.
 
have tried once, but i found she just resisted even more, :mad: she's one strange horse :D

i was just thinking maybe using a different bit ? she's currently ridden in an eggbutt snaffle - what do you think? :)
 
Do you keep your leg on for downwards aswell as upwards transitions? If you use a bit too much hand, without enough leg on then you will often find you have a giraffe at the end of your reins! Lots of transitions (within paces as well as between paces), circles, serpentines really help you both get the idea. Really make sure that you 'mean' transitions, pick a marker that you will make your transition at, make preperations (half halt, leg on) before you get there and ask clearly for what you want (leg on, seat, gentle with the hands).
Bit wise, I personally dislike single joints as they can jab a horse in the roof of their mouths, which understandably makes them throw their head up. How about getting the same bit in a french link? Eggbutt cheeks are fab as they allow the bit to stay a little more still in the mouth and horses often feel a bit more confident taking the contact with a more stable bit.
 
It sounds like she is physcially struggling to produce the kind of work that you want. It could be from some underlying issue, ie lack of strength or incorrect skeletal alignment, which is very often caused by poor hoof balance. Have a check through the points in these articles and see if you can identify if there is stopping her from working correctly, ie she is toe landing rather than heel landing:

http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/shoeing-with-regard-to-equine-welfare-article.html

http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/hoof-mapping-and-trimming.html

http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/how-hoof-form-relates-to-hoof-function-article.html
 
glosgirl said:
Do you keep your leg on for downwards aswell as upwards transitions? If you use a bit too much hand, without enough leg on then you will often find you have a giraffe at the end of your reins! Lots of transitions (within paces as well as between paces), circles, serpentines really help you both get the idea. Really make sure that you 'mean' transitions, pick a marker that you will make your transition at, make preperations (half halt, leg on) before you get there and ask clearly for what you want (leg on, seat, gentle with the hands).
Bit wise, I personally dislike single joints as they can jab a horse in the roof of their mouths, which understandably makes them throw their head up. How about getting the same bit in a french link? Eggbutt cheeks are fab as they allow the bit to stay a little more still in the mouth and horses often feel a bit more confident taking the contact with a more stable bit.
Click to expand...

I think i do use my leg, but i'm not 100% sure, i'll make a special effort to noice tonight. Just emailed owner asking if she'd let me change her bit, if so i think i might try one of them, i ride my horse in one of them when we're hacking so hopefully should fit!
thanks for the advice - i'll definatley try it tonight :)
 
sally2008 said:
It sounds like she is physcially struggling to produce the kind of work that you want. It could be from some underlying issue, ie lack of strength or incorrect skeletal alignment, which is very often caused by poor hoof balance. Have a check through the points in these articles and see if you can identify if there is stopping her from working correctly, ie she is toe landing rather than heel landing:

http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/shoeing-with-regard-to-equine-welfare-article.html

http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/hoof-mapping-and-trimming.html

http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/how-hoof-form-relates-to-hoof-function-article.html
Click to expand...



Thanks just read through the first one - very quickly though.
at first i thought no, i dont think she has, but reading it i'm a bit concerned she's been shod incorrectly - she hasnt been shod with me yet, but i think i might get my farrier to come up tommorrow - my boy needs a trim anyway, and i'm concerned that she might be landing on her toe, because her hooves are strangley shaped - and that may be the cause

thanks :)
 
It's certainly worth looking into. Your response to the query about lunging her in side-reins would certainly indicate to me that she's not working correctly not because she doesn't want to but because she can't.

Let us know how you get on.
 
Will do - should i let her owner know now? or should i wait and see what my farrier thinks? tbh, i would have thought owner should have found this out :rolleyes:
 
QR:

When riding think of your horse as working from back to front. You need the back end engaged and working through into a steady consistent rain contact.

If you don't have your leg on/anything coming from behind then you won't get an "outline".

The worst thing you can do it pull the front end down with nothing coming through from behind.

Your leg is there to keep up energy, not to go faster.


Bending exercises should help, think circles, serpentines, figures of 8's etc.

Good Luck :)
 
Has her back and saddle been checked recently, often a sign of discomfort is hollowing in upwards transitions and head going way up in the air. And has she built up enough muscle over her topline to keep her in a contact without the muscle to support her back end and back she will find it hard and painful to engage muscles which aren't developed. Long reining her might help to increase the topline and build up these muscles.
 
There isn't going to be an instant answer to this. It could well be that there are reasons why she finds it difficult, but even if you correct some things, it is going to take quite a time for the muscles to be used in a different way. So reward even the smallest improvement and try to build on it slowly and gradually.
 
You have a difficult situation on your hands. She is not your horse and the owner isn't sounding receptive to your suggestions. To me, she sounds like a green, unschooled horse who isn't just going to accept the correct way of going immediately and will be a work in progress. A bit change is unlikely to make a huge difference. You need to weigh up what you are doing and what you are getting out of riding this horse. We can't see her feet to decide whether the farrier is an issue. I would hazard a guess there are far more issues going on. But at the end of the day, if the owner is happy with how her horse is going, you are only going to be ruffling feathers by suggesting 'try this and try that'. I don't want to sound negative but in past years I have been in this position several times. If the owner isn't 'on side', look for something else to ride and enjoy
 
agree with monkeybum, leg leg leg. Im guilty of not using my legs enough and the difference it makes esprcially in transitions is amazing.
Good luck
 
For a horse to work truely in an outline, it must be off the forehand, otherwise it just has its head pulled down. Impulsion must come from the riders legs and seat. Lots of hill work, lots of transitions, and almost no hand is needed to do this. Agree a good instructor is needed.
 
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