Getting a horse off the leg

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JCbruce

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How to get a lazy horse off the leg. I know better but I'm constantly nagging my horse. He's just always been a very slow and not bothered horse. I have had him since he was 2.

He's like it on the lunge, schooling and hacking. Does everything you ask but always the absolute bare minimum.

The only time I get more is sometomes jumping and fun rides.

I have been considering taking him hunting but I worry about hammering his legs. Don't get me wrong he's an absolute angel and so safe and does everything and always comes home from dressage with a red ribbon but I do nag him the whole way round. He's a competition bred horse so should have a bit more omph.

What's your tips and training for getting him forward and off the leg but without really getting after him because he's such a sweet heart.

He does good transitions, good changes, jumps 1m course perfect, has varied work but just everything is very slow and un-bothered and I just nag now out of habit something I never used to do.
 
splashgirl45 said:
What is he being fed? Is he overweight ? Both of these could make him lazy. Also is he off grass for a good hour or longer before you ride ?
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He's not over weight, fit ridden 5/6 days a week. Bit of both actually. I do find him better in the morning before he's been turned out. Does the grass make a difference? They have not got much in the field.
 
JCbruce said:
He's not over weight, fit ridden 5/6 days a week. Bit of both actually. I do find him better in the morning before he's been turned out. Does the grass make a difference? They have not got much in the field.
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Fed loads of hay, chaff and bailey comp balancer
 
JCbruce said:
He's not over weight, fit ridden 5/6 days a week. Bit of both actually. I do find him better in the morning before he's been turned out. Does the grass make a difference? They have not got much in the field.
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If you have a very lively horse it makes them calmer to ride if they are out all night so I would think if you have a sluggish horse it might liven them up to be kept in overnight but as you already do that my theory is not applicable , my mare was very sparky but if she was out overnight my ride was much more calm and enjoyable …

If he is fit and not overweight could you try adding something to his feed , years ago we would have added oats but not sure what is suitable now
 
Burnttoast said:
Does he really know what the leg aid means, then? It sounds like he was never taught to maintain the pace/tempo on his own. The alternative is he can't, which would indicate a physical issue.
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Canter is fine, trot usually pretty good, walk is shite. Scoring 70 plus in tests
 
I think you need to work on the responsiveness rather than feed. A slight nudge with the leg should elicit a forward answer. If it doesn’t, immediately follow up with a tap from your whip, escalating as needed until you get the desired response. Each time go back to the softess cue and before you know he will be forward off a thought.
 
I'm in two minds minds reading this:

1) are you trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? If his true nature really is to be willing but laid back, is it fair to ask him to be a reactive sport horse? What is his breeding? He could be worth a fortune to someone who is desperate for an able, willing but calm partner.

2) Have you unwittingly created a 'numb' horse by your nagging, because you hesitated to be clear with aids, due to kind nature? If so, then VERY clear aids, explained kindly, with CLEAR expectations, should actually work quite quickly. He needs to knwo that a gentle touch needs a noticeable change of gear, NOW, not later. And as a reward, you will IMMEDIATELY put your 'aid' away, and stop nagging! That way, he can hear your aids, instead of being deafened by the constant leg 'noise'.

Also, his he genuinely cardiovascularly and muscularly fit enough for the work you asking of him?
 
There is a Richard Davison DVD on which a woman rider is failing to get her horse to walk off from halt. He told her to increase the cue, culminating in her lifting both legs off the horse and giving an almighty kick. I have never needed to do this myself but I once hacked with an escort new to the yard, an older woman, 30 ish, riding a heavy duty cob who needed kicking on at every step or he just stopped. She was very fed up.
I suggested that we halt and she should try this solution but she was completely unable to kick as fiercely as needed.

You dont need to be horrible to a horse all the time but one may need to do it just once to get the idea across that he is to do as you say.
 
Your horse sounds wonderful.

I do not like the recommendation of giving an almighty pony club kick. Bruising our horse's sides should never be the way to achieve what we want.

I would increase fitness where possible, consider feeding for more energy.

Honestly though, this horse sounds like what most of us would only dream of.
 
I agree that he doesn't sound problematic. If he does what you ask him, and not more, he's still doing it correctly. If you want a more forward horse, maybe consider selling him and buying one that fits you better. There's nothing wrong with that. I've sold horses that just didn't want as much as me, they were very happy being out hacking calmly. Always responded and did what I told them, but didn't ask to do more. I simply prefer horses that ask to do more, so we didn't fit together. Still very nice, easy horses.
 
Korg said:
I agree that he doesn't sound problematic. If he does what you ask him, and not more, he's still doing it correctly. If you want a more forward horse, maybe consider selling him and buying one that fits you better. There's nothing wrong with that. I've sold horses that just didn't want as much as me, they were very happy being out hacking calmly. Always responded and did what I told them, but didn't ask to do more. I simply prefer horses that ask to do more, so we didn't fit together. Still very nice, easy horses.
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I think I would prefer to keep him and change what I want to do. Lots of fun rides. He jumps amazing but will never be against the clock so maybe some working hunters low level because he is very handsome.
 
sbloom said:
So often it's because they're not comfortable, mentally and/or physically with how they're moving or what they're being asked to do. It's more complex of course but...

I rate this lady highly, it might help - a different way of looking at it:

https://www.facebook.com/diana.waters.7301/posts/pfbid0UKFfL2U34SUuHEgMUu1mLh3ciLJBpETYhtBCt8G62zjqt5SE6s5oURGyKocEgMDYl
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This is great thank you! My coach always says I'm too soft on him but I like the first line of - forward without force.

Thanks I'll take a good look through.
 
Jenko109 said:
Your horse sounds wonderful.

I do not like the recommendation of giving an almighty pony club kick. Bruising our horse's sides should never be the way to achieve what we want.

I would increase fitness where possible, consider feeding for more energy.

Honestly though, this horse sounds like what most of us would only dream of.
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Yes. Rather feels like punishing the horse when they are doing what they think they're supposed to be doing.

A big boot in the ribs is probably a fast way to get a result but consistent release of pressure when there is free forward motion (even if that has to be from a change of cue, new voice cue, a stick that is just a change rather than an escalation of pressure, whatever) is the simple, correct way.

I am being asked the same question regularly by a young person and unfortunately the correct answer is boring so she won't do it 😂 She also won't do what I did/ am doing and use food rewards. Going backwards to go forwards is annoying but I guess you have to sometimes, or risk being unfair to the horse!
 
Your horse sounds so lovely!

Wonder if this is worth a watch?

MP talks about not bullying them but being more intentional/'business-like' so they are listening, and the idea of a 'middle ground' where we're not being too hard but also recognising that being too soft too much of the time can be unhelpful too.

I have been working on not nagging in my lessons and how to give fewer but more effective leg aids. It's surprised me that most of that has been about learning to switch 'off' various things and essentially do less - like relax my seat and don't grip when I give a leg aid - rather than giving 'bigger' leg aids. Still a work in progress but the combo of that, learning lateral work, and practicing transitions seems to help!
 
Put it this way, the horse should move into walk from a featherlight kiss of the legs with a well positioned rider who is not restraining it by the bridle

Practice light aids, repeat and repeat until the horse understands, then carry a schooling whip to tickle it with to sharpen the response. Then chuck the whip away


it's not nice bring kicked hard
 
I have one like this. Affectionately known as Turboslug. If it's hunting, fun rides at speed, xc or sj he is a turbo. Arena he's a slug. Put a pro on him and she gave him a couple of good pony club kicks and it was sorted. If he doesn't go off a light leg I just take my lower leg out as if I was going to really kick and off he shoots. He's now on loan to a friend as a happy hacker and so much happier but will be 19 this year with cushings and mild hock arthritis so was time to slow down anyway.
 
This can be taught but you have to really mean it … most horses that are back offy are either in pain or have been given mixed signals (ie told to go but when they jump forward a bit quick immediately shut down)

Never nag a slow horse … train them to go from lifting leg away from the saddle rather than the leg going on as such
 
Whatever you decide to do, please for the ever loving peace DO NOT boot your horse in the ribs.....it's the quickest way to bruise your horses ribs and potentially cause more issues......

My now retired lad Baggs was taught like this and for the first 2 years he was exactly like your lad.

Turns out he had ulcers, got those treated and he became a different horse with the correct schooling x

What I did was ask once for what I wanted, and if I didn't get the reaction I wanted, I would tap my whip against my boot to make a sound and I found that this particular approach worked great - Baggs learnt that I wanted him more forwards, I didn't end up with leg ache and everyone was a winner x
 
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