Getting a Welsh Cob to stand like a welsh

[Carrots&Mints]

any tips on how to get my youngster to start standing like a welsh is meant to do (in the show ring) I can get him standing nice and square to a certain degree but not with his hind legs right back.

Thanks

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I don't know but my Welsh gelding stands with his legs back naturally, not all the time but if something takes his interest he stands like that.

 

[florayG]

Teaching him to 'camp out' if he doesn't do it naturally takes a lot of patience. The normal way is to use a long thin stick (not a whip, needs to be solid like a bamboo cane) and when you have him standing nicely 'pick up' a foreleg with it by pressing behind the pastern and move the leg an inch or two forwards. He will put it back again but keep repeating until he leaves it where you have put it and praise him. If he moves a hind leg put that back where it was with the stick.Then do the other foreleg. Also teach him to move the hind legs back the same way. Gradually increase the amount you ask him to camp out, he will learn that when you touch his pastern with the stick he should move his touched leg and nothing else. In the show ring then you stand your horse up, touch each pastern and he camps out as he has been taught.
Not very many people bother nowadays to teach it except professional Welsh Cob show studs. Don't attempt it unless you have loads of patience because if you try to hurry you may end up with a horse who won't stand still at all.

 

[pip6]

I saw one doing this in showring sunday. My first thought was how it must be detrimental to their back muscles, to curve their spine like that. If your horse moved in that kind of shape, or stood like it with you mounted it looks very uncomfortable for both parties. Isn't this another case of human vanity (as in the extended pose for arab showing) insisting the horse does something painful (as it must be in the highly exagerrated show ring pose) for our perception of a good performance?

 

[cambrica]

It takes a lot of practice but start by having him stand quietly for periods of time. Then you need to ask him to bring one front leg forward. This can either be done by using a schooling whip and gently tapping by the feathers whilst pushing the withers to take the weight off that leg. Even a small movement forward you should reward. Then try the other side. If he then walks forward ask him to back up to original position and start again. Patience is the key.
What also worked on my youngster was a walking stick and gently hook and put pressure on to step forward then reward.
I'll also add that I don't like mine to stretch out and find it unnecessary. I'm quite happy if he stands square or with one hind leg slightly forward.

 

[Carrots&Mints]

Thanks guys I wont be rushing it as Ive onl just been getting him to stand square properly and thats taken allot of time Now at least I can work on the 'camp out'.

Pip6... allot of the welsh do it naturally so i dont think it can harm them very much. and their not standing about for a long time in that position.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I saw one doing this in showring sunday. My first thought was how it must be detrimental to their back muscles, to curve their spine like that. If your horse moved in that kind of shape, or stood like it with you mounted it looks very uncomfortable for both parties. Isn't this another case of human vanity (as in the extended pose for arab showing) insisting the horse does something painful (as it must be in the highly exagerrated show ring pose) for our perception of a good performance?

I have never 'taught' my gelding to do this but he stands like it naturally especially if his attention is on another horse walking past his field for instance. He never stands like it when I am on him.

 

[pip6]

What is the point to it? My horse stands like a giraffe when something takes her interest, but it would be an awful riding position (even standing still I'd rather not eat ears), look awful stood up for a judge & of no benefit.

I see them doing it with dogs as well, what's wrong with standing show pony type showing the four legs but with them underneath in a much more normal stance. Why is this deemed so much more attractive & the desirable position to show of Welshies best attributes? In large classes, such as at county shows they are forced to stand like this for a long time, not just transiently as something takes their fancy. I still cannot see how it can be anything but uncomfortable to them. If you train a person / animal to hold a pose for long enough, then you can condition them so they can hold it for longer & longer periods (or 'train' them), this doesn't mean they don't experience discomfort in training or when asked to hold it in the ring. Not just picking on Welsh, also think arab extended pose very unnatural (& I do own arabs - have only ever shown them in 'natural pose' classes) & must cause discomfort both in training & in ring.

If there was a benefit to the horse, fine. But when it is people getting them to do it to look pretty for a judge, I have to ask why put the horse through it?

Having been out to trailblazers finals this weekend & watched showing classes (something I never normally would bother to do - but did it to support a friend), I can only say as I saw it. All too often bad practices are continued with the excuse of it being 'tradition'. If you don't question, nothing ever changes or improves for those equines involved.

 

[Carrots&Mints]

I only asked advice not a blooming lecture.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike this forum... someone has to make an arguement!!!!!

 

[Carrots&Mints]

and also I dont think i have ever heard of a welsh pony being ill or have died from being stood like i asked!!!

 

[ester]

Isn't all showing about getting them to look pretty for the judge? It is surely just to highlight the areas of the breed that are most important. I really don't think it does them any harm.. mine does it naturally too- but think most actually tend to do it less than in older days.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

pip6 as I said I have never taught my Welsh D to stand like this, he has never been to a show and after running with his mum and sister until he was four he was backed and hacked out only. He did a little hunting and an introduction to dressage as a five year old. I bought him a few months before his sixth birthday and he has been a happy hacker ever since, now eleven and he stands with his back legs stretched out so how do you explain that if it is a 'forced' stance??

 

[flirtygerty]

pip6 as I said I have never taught my Welsh D to stand like this, he has never been to a show and after running with his mum and sister until he was four he was backed and hacked out only. He did a little hunting and an introduction to dressage as a five year old. I bought him a few months before his sixth birthday and he has been a happy hacker ever since, now eleven and he stands with his back legs stretched out so how do you explain that if it is a 'forced' stance??

My lad is of unknown parentage, he often stands like that in the field, he also carries his tail high when hooning about the field, he seems comfortable doing it, never been taught to stand in any particular way, except still when asked

 

[mandwhy]

Mine is a haflinger and does it all the time! Saying it would be uncomfortable for them is like saying a person standing with their legs placed anywhere other than normally is going to cause harm, or bending down or even crouching on all fours. It's a stance, that's all.

I do agree that it is kind of pointless and makes more sense to see them standing naturally though.

 

[pip6]

So some stand that way irrelevant of breed, but this thread was started about how to teach a horse to do, i.e. it is not a natural stance for that horse. If it is so common, why are they having to be taught? Thinking in terms of how I was taught flatwork, it is the total opposite of how I was taught to try & get the horse to carry itself. The whole point was to avoid hollowing, which is what this effectively is. I still ask the question, why is this particular stance supposed to show off the Welsh to the best effect? It's genuine curiosity.

As I've said, having arabs I hate the extended show pose (& how many are 'trained' to hold it. No coincidence whips feature highly in top arab showing), & do not think the traits encouraged are good for producing an athletic riding horse, which the arab should be. In hand means nothing (except for youngsters & broodmares), let's see how the horse can actually perform. Can it do the job? Given that the traits encouraged in arab inhand showing don't make the best ridden horse types (Crabbets rarely feature in inhand showing as not flashy or exotic enough but do very well in ridden, many top ones high % Crabbet current one 100%), it would seem that the 'style' to show off the animals best points doesn't show which ones will be good work horses.

So my question is how exactly the extended welsh pose helps to show off the in hand horse in order to help the judge to decide which would make / breed the best horses, which for welsh should be ride & drive. You can own the prettiest picture but surely if it isn't fit for purpose there's no point to it.

 

[Carrots&Mints]

God knows why all I know is that if I don't get him to learn how to do it I'm gonna miss out in places because other horses can. However I must say... He does do it naturally in the field but when in hand and told to stand he doesn't do it.

 

[Todmiester]

Do you think standing your Welsh Cob in the stretched pose will make him look better then you have been told how. Have to say having shown Welsh Cobs for near enough twenty years all mine are stood up four square and I've never been told by any Judge that my Cob has been stood up incorrectly. And I've collected plenty championships under top Cob Judges.

 

[cob&onion]

My welshie stands like that naturally.

 

[sparkeyhorse02]

Just to throw my two-penneth in, I watched a show last year which was the Festival of Champions in Lancashire and there was a renowned welsh D stallion that was always placed overall supreme or at least reserve for the last 4 or 5 years and in the in hand welsh d class the judge actually pulled the handler for making him stand too far 'out' he kept asking her to pull him up and stand him underneath himself. Was really painful to watch because the horse had obviously done it for years and thought he new his job so had no idea what she was asking!

 

[Annagain]

My old boy did it naturally when he was excited. I never asked him to and if he was very excited he'd take it to the extreme to the point where it felt like he was going to split in two! He'd plant his front feet and then start going backwards with his back end. It was usually then followed by a rear (god knows how!) and a plunge. We were asked not to enter gymkhana games at Pony Club "for the safety of others". Our safety was fine as although he was mad as a fish on speed, he never took it too far.

 

[Carrots&Mints]

This was an old ish thread lol! He sometimes does it sometimes doesn't. As long as when we go out he stands nice then I'm happy