Getting sharper after being declared sound

J_sarahd

J_sarahd

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Since bringing Shadow back into work about a month ago, he has been so much more forward and sharper. Before, he would be quite dull and slop along on hacks but now, he is quite jolly (which is obviously a good sign!)

However, he has become more spooky and been throwing his toys out the pram a bit more. For example, he had to pass two stationary tractors with trailers (never had a problem with farm machinery before), and when they started driving off again, we had rearing, spinning, trying to trot through the shoulder, running back etc. And then another example is, we were out on our own and there was a friend with her son on a pony up ahead who kept doing small trots every so often. They were probably about 300m away. Again, never caused a problem before. Shadow had a bit of an explosive moment, which again resulted in a mini rear and a few steps of trot.

As we are still in the walk for 20 mins part of rehab, it is getting a bit boring for both of us due to our hacking routes.

Is the spookiness/sharpness just him feeling better and this is the actual Shadow (which is absolutely fine as it’s not unmanageable or scary) and he’s been dulled down by pain?

Half of my brain is saying this and half is saying he’s in pain but from what I’ve learnt, he’s one of those who goes into themselves and super quiet when they’re in pain and then lashes out with aggression (which has definitely improved).

His feed is the same:

Muscle & Focus
Aloe vera juice
Glucosamine +
Salt
Linseed

I have started feeding him a handful of soaked grass nuts as a little snack/something to nibble on if he’s in but this behaviour started before introducing these.
 
Baggs my 20 year old doesn't like waiting and can get sharp/spooky if asked to do so. The other week on a hack, we had to wait for a tractor to pass, and he was dancing around on the spot, did a bronc and shot forwards. Once we were moving again he was fine. Baggs also gets a bit annoyed if I ask him to walk whilst other horses are trotting x

Given your run of bad luck with horses, I totally understand why this is niggling at you xx I'd say he's feeling better in himself and he is naturally on the sharper side of life - you said yourself that he's the type to revert into himself when he's not feeling 100% so I would say he is feeling better now that you have sorted out his problem :) x
 
I think this is one that you're going to have to keep thinking about tbh. Generally I go by the rule that a relaxed horse is a happy horse and vice versa so increased spookiness and tension would raise a red flag.

I have personally seen horses become "worse" after interventions that should have helped them. A physio or chiro appt for example gets rid of all their stiffness and aches but it also removes all the little muscle stiffnesses they were relying on to cover up for other problems so they end up feeling more uncomfortable. Happened to me as well tbh, I fixed my back pain and gave myself achilles tendonitis in the process and I am now more noticeably lame!!

It could also be freshness, it could be a natural sharpness, but the safer assumption to make is that it isn't. I think.
 
AppyLover1996 said:
Baggs my 20 year old doesn't like waiting and can get sharp/spooky if asked to do so. The other week on a hack, we had to wait for a tractor to pass, and he was dancing around on the spot, did a bronc and shot forwards. Once we were moving again he was fine. Baggs also gets a bit annoyed if I ask him to walk whilst other horses are trotting x

Given your run of bad luck with horses, I totally understand why this is niggling at you xx I'd say he's feeling better in himself and he is naturally on the sharper side of life - you said yourself that he's the type to revert into himself when he's not feeling 100% so I would say he is feeling better now that you have sorted out his problem :) x
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Thank you! Yeah you’re right, I am a massive overthinker and really fixate on things that are “out of the norm”. But I guess that’s way better than just ignoring the signs! He came to me so dull and a very leg-on ride (which I needed at the time) and he’s by no means a hot horse now, he just seems more forward
 
smolmaus said:
I think this is one that you're going to have to keep thinking about tbh. Generally I go by the rule that a relaxed horse is a happy horse and vice versa so increased spookiness and tension would raise a red flag.

I have personally seen horses become "worse" after interventions that should have helped them. A physio or chiro appt for example gets rid of all their stiffness and aches but it also removes all the little muscle stiffnesses they were relying on to cover up for other problems so they end up feeling more uncomfortable. Happened to me as well tbh, I fixed my back pain and gave myself achilles tendonitis in the process and I am now more noticeably lame!!

It could also be freshness, it could be a natural sharpness, but the safer assumption to make is that it isn't. I think.
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This makes sense and is what half of my brain was thinking - have I uncovered another issue by fixing his suspensories. On the whole, he seems good (no reaction on palpating his back, no issues with picking his feet up, no girthiness, massively decreased aggression etc) Obviously not (intentionally) trotted him so can’t tell if there’s a lameness still there but I will definitely check once we are allowed to trot
 
J_sarahd said:
This makes sense and is what half of my brain was thinking - have I uncovered another issue by fixing his suspensories. On the whole, he seems good (no reaction on palpating his back, no issues with picking his feet up, no girthiness, massively decreased aggression etc) Obviously not (intentionally) trotted him so can’t tell if there’s a lameness still there but I will definitely check once we are allowed to trot
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Yeah like you don't have to change anything you're doing with the walk rehab, it sounds like you're already doing everything right. Including doing a double check on the gut feeling.

rara007 said:
Ulcers?
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Can never really truly rule out ulcers, can you 😑
 
Sometimes it's pure bordom and a surplus in energy that has no where to go. Some horses aren't so great at regulating their feelings and urges of outburst!

Sure, could be discomfort, but horses also aren't robots and will have their moments. Especially if young, green, and/or underworked (I don't mean that in a bad way, sometimes we can't work them more for a variety of reasons).

With mine after he worked for a bit, he leveled nicely. It was almost as if he had too much noise going on before the edge was taken off and he could relax.
 
tda said:
Although the Muscle and Focus does not appear to include much, I would try him without it and the linseed for a month
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He’s always been on the M&F from pretty much day one. We did have a few weeks of being on another A&P feed, which coincided with his hock injections where we had similar behaviour but I put it down to the feed as it was higher energy. I can take him off both though.

I’ll just add: hock injections were a stab in the dark treatment due to me not being able to afford a full work up at the time and going with the most likely thing. He improved slightly but was never fully sound like he was the last time the vet saw him. The vet said the steroid can sometimes move out of the joint to the suspensories so thinks that’s why we saw a slight improvement but not fully sound.
 
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CanteringCarrot said:
Sometimes it's pure bordom and a surplus in energy that has no where to go. Some horses aren't so great at regulating their feelings and urges of outburst!

Sure, could be discomfort, but horses also aren't robots and will have their moments. Especially if young, green, and/or underworked (I don't mean that in a bad way, sometimes we can't work them more for a variety of reasons).

With mine after he worked for a bit, he leveled nicely. It was almost as if he had too much noise going on before the edge was taken off and he could relax.
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This makes so much sense - we are doing 20 mins of walking 4 times a week on the same route. I’m bored so I can only imagine he is too. It will be interesting to see if it improves once we can start trotting/going further
 
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Spooky, sharp horses usually feel compromised and therefore, to a degree, unsafe. I almost feel calmers should be banned for this reason. Sure, some horses are a bit livelier than others, and all.horses are livelier in some situations than other, but that's not how this sounds.

Pain, discomfort or just dysfunction, I would asses posture, musculature and go from there. Equitopiacenter.com has some great resources for this.
 
sbloom said:
Spooky, sharp horses usually feel compromised and therefore, to a degree, unsafe. I almost feel calmers should be banned for this reason. Sure, some horses are a bit livelier than others, and all.horses are livelier in some situations than other, but that's not how this sounds.

Pain, discomfort or just dysfunction, I would asses posture, musculature and go from there. Equitopiacenter.com has some great resources for this.
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Musculature and posture have greatly improved since the PSD intervention. They’ve both been something I’ve been keeping an eye on and were huge tell-tale signs that things were going in an okay direction before the trot up by the vet. Obviously not perfect and still much to improve on, but it’s a work in progress
 
The temperature has dropped massively over the last week, their coats are coming through, he’s a young horse on minimal work and he’s probably feeling physically a lot better in his body since the ulcers cleared up and his hocks are no longer hurting.

Rocky is two different horses on a hot summer’s day and a cold winter’s one. Like someone upthread said, they’re not robots and will all have their days!
 
J_sarahd said:
Thank you! Yeah you’re right, I am a massive overthinker and really fixate on things that are “out of the norm”. But I guess that’s way better than just ignoring the signs! He came to me so dull and a very leg-on ride (which I needed at the time) and he’s by no means a hot horse now, he just seems more forward
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Hey - don't ever apologise for being an over thinker xx

I find it best to over think and be reassured rather than ignore the signs/downplay them - I'm an over thinker myself and my vets all know this. I often phone them up with the following start to the call of " I know I'm an over thinker and assume the worst in every case but" and my vets have always been lovely, kind and say to me on many occasion that they'd rather I phoned them up to be on the safe side, rather than leave things be and they potentially get a hell of a lot worse. I do often drop in some flowers, biccies and choccies for the vets as a thank you - especially as they've been there so much for me when I first got Baggs and was working through his numerous issues x

I would say that he is feeling better, coupled with the random weather we are having (days of blazing sun and then dropping to cold), his winter coat starting to come through and coupled that you are restricted for rides till he gets to the next stage of his rehab, leads me to think that it's a mixture of he is feeling better and getting a bit annoyed with doing the same thing x I know with Rabbit my 2 year old, if I keep doing the same thing too much he switches off, gets bored and starts making his own entertainment (normally at my expense aha!) 🤣
 
AppyLover1996 said:
Hey - don't ever apologise for being an over thinker xx

I find it best to over think and be reassured rather than ignore the signs/downplay them - I'm an over thinker myself and my vets all know this. I often phone them up with the following start to the call of " I know I'm an over thinker and assume the worst in every case but" and my vets have always been lovely, kind and say to me on many occasion that they'd rather I phoned them up to be on the safe side, rather than leave things be and they potentially get a hell of a lot worse. I do often drop in some flowers, biccies and choccies for the vets as a thank you - especially as they've been there so much for me when I first got Baggs and was working through his numerous issues x

I would say that he is feeling better, coupled with the random weather we are having (days of blazing sun and then dropping to cold), his winter coat starting to come through and coupled that you are restricted for rides till he gets to the next stage of his rehab, leads me to think that it's a mixture of he is feeling better and getting a bit annoyed with doing the same thing x I know with Rabbit my 2 year old, if I keep doing the same thing too much he switches off, gets bored and starts making his own entertainment (normally at my expense aha!) 🤣
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100%! I would rather be an overthinker who worries about everything than some of the owners I know whose horses are screaming at them that they’re in pain, but they choose to ignore it. Our main responsibility with our horses (and all of our animals) is to make sure their primary needs are met and that includes listening to them. I genuinely would never ride Shadow again if it meant he was 100% happy and I hope that level of care is obvious in my story with Nova.

You’re right and I will reassess once we are allowed to trot and go a bit further. I am trying to mix our routes up but one of them I’m scared to do on my own as you have to go under a railway bridge and the other goes the other side of his field hedge and his field mate freaks out and gallops round the field, and since we are only allowed to walk, it’s not worth even risking it. We’ve got a big field right outside our gate that’s just been cut so I can take him round that to try and mix it up (we have permission to ride round it).

Obviously if the explosions become more frequent, I will get him checked out. But I am hoping you’re right in that he is feeling better and just getting bored.
 
Mine gets spookier and listens to me less when she is sore. She’s a very sweet lassy usually and tries her hardest so it’s a fair giveaway something is up.
Her biggest reaction is she will get tense and shoot past bushes incase there is something behind them even though she’s never been frightened by anything behind them when she’s been with me. She also trigger stacks much quicker.

Because she likes hacking with friends, going out with a buddy is a good way for me to see if she is fresh or if something is up. I do look at every misstep and think there’s something up at the moment.
Does shadow have a preference of having a friend or not to see if his behaviour changes?

I’m going through issues so I know I will be quicker to think pain but it is a sign mine is struggling.
 
Just a thought but I probably wouldn't mix it up myself, I would be doing the physical exercise giving him the best chance to stay calm on well-known easy routes and you can do other things for his brain where you won't risk him being too rambunctious. Food puzzles, snuffle mats, teach him some little tricks like hand targets or (if he is allowed to go in the arena with his suspensories) targeting cones etc. Last time my mare was off games our instructor gave us some "co-operative care" exercises to do in the stable to keep her brain busy, like teaching her to put her ear in my hand or give me her chin etc very handy skills to have and handy to give them a "job" just for their brains.
 
Peglo said:
Mine gets spookier and listens to me less when she is sore. She’s a very sweet lassy usually and tries her hardest so it’s a fair giveaway something is up.
Her biggest reaction is she will get tense and shoot past bushes incase there is something behind them even though she’s never been frightened by anything behind them when she’s been with me. She also trigger stacks much quicker.

Because she likes hacking with friends, going out with a buddy is a good way for me to see if she is fresh or if something is up. I do look at every misstep and think there’s something up at the moment.
Does shadow have a preference of having a friend or not to see if his behaviour changes?

I’m going through issues so I know I will be quicker to think pain but it is a sign mine is struggling.
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He does prefer going out with friends and he is still forward (we used to be the ones slugging along at the back and now some of the slower ones have to trot to keep up with us. He is definitely less tense and spooky, but will still gawp at things he hasn’t seen - i.e., we went a bit further than we’d been going a few weeks ago as I was really building it up slowly (stuck to our in-hand route for a bit and then to the next tree etc etc) and he hadn’t been this far since May and the maize in the field we go past had shot up and he walked past a bit of it in that sort of side-eye/bent body way but didn’t rush past.

I have never really hacked him out on his own much before May as we always had people to hack with but I am really struggling to find people who are happy to just walk for 20 mins, so we have done a good 80% of our hacks solo.
 
smolmaus said:
Just a thought but I probably wouldn't mix it up myself, I would be doing the physical exercise giving him the best chance to stay calm on well-known easy routes and you can do other things for his brain where you won't risk him being too rambunctious. Food puzzles, snuffle mats, teach him some little tricks like hand targets or (if he is allowed to go in the arena with his suspensories) targeting cones etc. Last time my mare was off games our instructor gave us some "co-operative care" exercises to do in the stable to keep her brain busy, like teaching her to put her ear in my hand or give me her chin etc very handy skills to have and handy to give them a "job" just for their brains.
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This is interesting and you’re right. I will definitely try some of these. We are allowed to go in the school to do groundwork and eventually walk schooling once the after-work hacks are no longer a thing, so I’ll definitely try some of these, thank you
 
I hacked him out last night and apart from gawping at some escaped sheep, he was perfect. So maybe it is just a weather/feeling good/bored thing.

Also saw him trotting round the field whilst I was poo picking as field mate was moving him around and he looked good - level and a lot floatier than before! Whether that will translate to under saddle is obviously something for the future but he did look the best he ever has. (I wish I could stop him trotting round the field whilst he is still meant to be walking, but I guess that’s the nature of horses and is impossible for any owner/any horse)
 
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