Giving horse sedative for placebo effect on the rider!?

[Chinchilla]

If the OP was the one taking the placebo herself, then yes it could still work (especially if it was an injection as apparently that has a greater placebo effect than a pill), but she's thinking about giving it to the horse, so one step removed. Would that still work?

Theoretically yes. It's called placebo by proxy and is basically where someone's behaviour is affected by the belief of others that their behaviour will now change. (I think, not sure if I've worded that brilliantly though...)

Part of me acknowledges I just need to be a bit more patient, but it's frustrating because when I bought my mare home she was not too much horse for me, but now post-accident she is, even though it's not her that's changed or done anything wrong. :-(

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I understand the frustration. Sadly these things do take baby steps rather than a sudden 'eureka, I've got all my confidence back' type transformation IME.

Well if you choose the right placebo that will do no harm, you might as well try it.

 

[The-Bookworm]

Theoretically yes. It's called placebo by proxy and is basically where someone's behaviour is affected by the belief of others that their behaviour will now change. (I think, not sure if I've worded that brilliantly though...)

Part of me acknowledges I just need to be a bit more patient, but it's frustrating because when I bought my mare home she was not too much horse for me, but now post-accident she is, even though it's not her that's changed or done anything wrong. :-(

Then personally I think it's you that needs to be taking the placebo because it's you that "needs" to change.

My friend who lacks confidence can't ride unless she wears certain jodphurs. But it's escalated into other things and her confidence hasn't got better she's just added more things she needs to do before she feels it. A bit like a drug become less effective unless you increase the dose.

 

[Chinchilla]

Then personally I think it's you that needs to be taking the placebo because it's you that "needs" to change.

My friend who lacks confidence can't ride unless she wears certain jodphurs. But it's escalated into other things and her confidence hasn't got better she's just added more things she needs to do before she feels it. A bit like a drug become less effective unless you increase the dose.

Okay. What would people recommend as a placebo (for me)?
I've heard good things about Bach's rescue remedy...?

 

[Tash88]

I actually don't think there is anything really 'wrong' with giving the horse something gentle (i.e. over the counter) if it means you as a rider/handler feel better. As a PP said, you need to build up a 'bank' of positive experiences and this will presumably be easier if you give the horse (and yourself probably) something calming like valerian, rescue remedy or skullcap (a brilliant herbal product for people, I take it for competing and it just takes the edge off). You can work on yourself at the same time and then hopefully reduce the dose of whatever you're administering gradually. Just because you start giving something doesn't mean it has to be forever.

Good luck whatever you decide; I've been there and confidence issues can be very difficult to overcome, but recognising you have them and starting to deal with it is the first step.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Am I right in thinking that you and your family have four horses between you, including the one that kicked you?

How many of these horses are you expected/are expecting yourself to handle on a daily basis?

Do you feel happier handling some of them rather than the others?

Are you ever handling them alone, or is there always someone else around?

Who deals routinely with the horse that kicked you, as understandably you don't want to?

 

[ozpoz]

It's your horse - do whatever helps you enjoy your time with her as long as it doesn't harm her. There are many people who do what you are suggesting - there would be no market for calmers otherwise!

 

[Chinchilla]

Am I right in thinking that you and your family have four horses between you, including the one that kicked you? yep, four horses

How many of these horses are you expected/are expecting yourself to handle on a daily basis? Three of them (all of them but the one that kicked me), but mainly the 12hh new forest and my 15hh spotty thing as those are the ones that are technically mine (although in reality all four are shared).

Do you feel happier handling some of them rather than the others? the smaller two - 12hh and 36" - I find easier: this is true of all horses, the smaller they, are the happier I am. If I could shrink the bigger two to <12hh I would be happy as a clam. 😂 Really Diva is a lot bigger than I'd feel comfortable handling normally but I feel quite happy doing things with her I wouldn't manage with another horse I didn't know as well.

Are you ever handling them alone, or is there always someone else around? No, after what happened there is always someone around.

Who deals routinely with the horse that kicked you, as understandably you don't want to? My mother. If she isn't available he usually gets left sadly as I can't/won't catch him and the rest of my family are not horsey. If he's tied up or stabled I can groom him, but I avoid being around his hind end or when he is loose.

 

[stormox]

I do not think it at all ethical to drug a horse (a sedative is a drug) when the horse isnt the problem.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

A true placebo will have no effect at all bar the one in the OP's mind and that is what I thought that the OP was talking about here.

I certainly wouldn't use anything with an active ingredient. Anyone who has seen a horse fight to overcome a proper veterinary sedation knows that an incident like that would only further dent the OP's confidence.

 

[Chinchilla]

A true placebo will have no effect at all bar the one in the OP's mind and that is what I thought that the OP was talking about here.

I certainly wouldn't use anything with an active ingredient. Anyone who has seen a horse fight to overcome a proper veterinary sedation knows that an incident like that would only further dent the OP's confidence.

Yep,that's what I am talking about - but I think I have decided AGAINST giving the horse anything. Not averse to taking something myself though.

 

[indie1282]

When you was kicked in the face was it a freak accident or more premeditated from the horse? Are you scared of it happening again?
If you are nervous then all the horses are going to pick up on it so I think it should be you to take the calmer.

 

[Chinchilla]

When you was kicked in the face was it a freak accident or more premeditated from the horse? Are you scared of it happening again?
If you are nervous then all the horses are going to pick up on it so I think it should be you to take the calmer.

It was a complete accident so far as I'm aware. He didn't kick so much as buck and catch me by mistake.
I'm more than willing to take a non pharmacological calmer myself if anyone can recommend one?
In other news I ACTUALLY RUGGED UP the horse that kicked me at the weekend. Cheated a bit and did it whilst he was eating but still.

 

[twiggy2]

A placebos would be something like a sugar pill.
Your talking about taking or giving things that work, they are not placebos.

 

[laura_nash]

Okay. What would people recommend as a placebo (for me)?
I've heard good things about Bach's rescue remedy...?

Yes, Bach's rescue remedy is one. Bach flower remedies are a bit like homeopathy I think (extreme dilutions meaning there is no active anything left). With rescue remedy you are basically taking a few drops of brandy. Like homeopathy it has lots of pseudo-science, glowing reviews and fancy packaging to make it a more effective placebo.

When I had confidence issues some years ago I had a spray "perfume" to put on. It was supposed to "cover up the smell of fear" or some such. No idea if it was placebo-only but it did seem to help.

ETA: found it http://www.paxhorse.co.uk/

 

[WelshD]

We had great success with a calming magnesium spray from freestep.
This was for a child rider though, once the pony had the magic spray everything was fine. I've no idea if it worked on the pony or not but at one point child, her mother and pony were all sprayed with it before riding sessions and it magically got us through a very sticky spot of crisis of confidence all round.
The child had a blip recently and with no spray to hand we used plaiting spray and told her it was the magic stuff lol. No problems with confidence after that!

 

[Orangehorse]

Rescue Remedy is good. Also people used to break off a twig of elder bush and put it in their pocket when riding a newly broken horse to ensure it was calm and well behaved.
Of course it worked! (I think there is some connection between elder and witches)

(Wispers behind my hand - I did actually do this when my horse was 4 and back from being broken in)

 

[Merrymoles]

Try some lavender handcream for you and, if it makes you feel better, you can wipe some through the horse's manes - it shouldn't go on to their skin for risk of burning if it's hot but you don't need much to create quite a strong smell of lavender.

Don't like the smell much myself (reminds me of aged aunts) but it is supposed to have calming properties for both humans and horses so might solve your problems.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

 

[The-Bookworm]

Yes, Bach's rescue remedy is one. Bach flower remedies are a bit like homeopathy I think (extreme dilutions meaning there is no active anything left). With rescue remedy you are basically taking a few drops of brandy. Like homeopathy it has lots of pseudo-science, glowing reviews and fancy packaging to make it a more effective placebo.

When I had confidence issues some years ago I had a spray "perfume" to put on. It was supposed to "cover up the smell of fear" or some such. No idea if it was placebo-only but it did seem to help.

ETA: found it http://www.paxhorse.co.uk/

Bach flowers can be given to horses or humans.
I wouldn't call it a placebo because it's short term usage only generally as it works.

 

[Theocat]

I suspect 90% of amateur-owned horses on some form of "calmer" are on it because the knowledge it's being administered helps the rider ride through whatever the problem is. Over the counter supplements are not "drugging" the horse and if it helps you crack on - crack on!

We can't all just apply the tits-teeth-legs-sit up approach to tricky moments and there is no shame in getting a psychological boost- or even a (marginal) physiological boost. I'd start with Rescue Remedy for all parties.