Going back to shoes after barefoot

[Ranyhyn]

What precautions can you take in order to get the best experience possible, when putting shoes back on after a period without them? (7months) Horse has been on soft grass turnout with no exercise.
Glue ons? Pads?
If anyone has been through similar I'd love to hear experiences.

 

[Cortez]

Hi, yes - just re-shod my mare yesterday after a year out of shoes due to her increasing soreness. No precautions, just put the shoes on as per normal, as you would if shoeing a young horse for the first time i suppose. She was instantly sound, so I'm glad to be able to relieve her pain.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Thank you. I've not had a youngster, to have experienced first time in shoes, however was hoping to co-incide it with the start of long, slow fitness work anyway. So hoping that slow build up will help her get used to it?

 

[Cortez]

To be honest I've NEVER seen a horse react to shoes going on, they seem not to notice (other than not being sore any more in the case of my mare). If you think about it, most hunters, etc. which would traditionally have had a summer out without shoes or with grass tips (remember them?), are routinely brought back up from grass and shod right away with no adverse effects. I wouldn't fret about it.

 

[cptrayes]

What precautions can you take in order to get the best experience possible, when putting shoes back on after a period without them? (7months) Horse has been on soft grass turnout with no exercise.
Glue ons? Pads?
If anyone has been through similar I'd love to hear experiences.

I think your title is a little misleading. Your horse hasn't been "barefoot" in my terminology, which is that barefoot horses are working just like horses with shoes on. He/she's been turned away with no shoes on. I opened this thread expecting to sympathise with you for finding that your horse is footie without shoes on and that you want to shoe her again. But it seems that you always intended to shoe again after turning him/her away (for injury or foaling, I guess).

Have you thought of not putting shoes on and seeing what happens? Cortez's experience of a mare sore for a year is not normal, and can usually be corrected with changes of diet and/or management unless the horse has an underlying metabolic problem. This is somtimes easier to say than do for people in livery yards.

As for the answer to your question, just put shoes on. I too have never seen a horse have a problem with being shod either first time or after a break.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Being very dumb but what are grass tips?

 

[cptrayes]

Being very dumb but what are grass tips?

Shoes on the toes only, not the heels.

Used to allow the heels to expand and contract and get stimulation without the horn at the toe breaking up during a short break from shoes.

 

[Ranyhyn]

I think your title is a little misleading. Your horse hasn't been "barefoot" in my terminology, which is that barefoot horses are working just like horses with shoes on. He/she's been turned away with no shoes on. I opened this thread expecting to sympathise with you for finding that your horse is footie without shoes on and that you want to shoe her again. But it seems that you always intended to shoe again after turning him/her away (for injury or foaling, I guess).

On the contrary cptrayes, she was indeed intended to stay barefoot.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

That just sounds wrong. *frowns* my poor brain.

 

[TicTac]

I think your title is a little misleading. Your horse hasn't been "barefoot" in my terminology, which is that barefoot horses are working just like horses with shoes on. He/she's been turned away with no shoes on. I opened this thread expecting to sympathise with you for finding that your horse is footie without shoes on and that you want to shoe her again. But it seems that you always intended to shoe again after turning him/her away (for injury or foaling, I guess).

The dictionary term for ' barefoot ' is with the feet or hooves in this case bare! Why do you have to be so pedantic about the use of the word barefoot!

My horse has been ' barefoot' or shoeless or what ever else you want to call it for quite a while now and while she may not be rock crunching, or whatever the term is, she is perfectly happy without her shoes on, on a variety of surfaces. She is not a performance horse, she is now retired but the fact of the matter is she is now barefoot!

 

[ester]

BVD it was physio who said put them back on and start work slowly wasn't it? I was just wondering why she didn't say to start work slowly with them off/booted?

 

[Ranyhyn]

Physio said it when she saw her, but vet said it last time he saw her too - but at that point, I wasn't happy to do it. I'm still not happy now but I want the mare to start work.
Physio said it because she's sound on the grass in all gaits but footy on concrete/hardcore. That coupled with the fact that we have no hacking here and no facilities to assemble her a barefoot transitioning paradise, she suggested it as the best way forward.

 

[cptrayes]

Physio said it when she saw her, but vet said it last time he saw her too - but at that point, I wasn't happy to do it. I'm still not happy now but I want the mare to start work.
Physio said it because she's sound on the grass in all gaits but footy on concrete/hardcore. That coupled with the fact that we have no hacking here and no facilities to assemble her a barefoot transitioning paradise, she suggested it as the best way forward.

Do your physio or your vet know anything about how 24/7 grass makes a very high proportion of barefoot horses footie? She should be more comfortable by now even on paddock rest for 7 months.

If she was mine and I still wanted her to try barefoot I would take her off the grass during the day and be trying to find out whether my grazing was low or high in important minerals. Many people are finding that they need to supplement copper, for example, to get their horses happy on stones. I am one of them because my land is high in manganese and iron, which prevents copper absorption.


It seems such a shame to shoe her now if you really don't want to. Can we help you with any information that would let you start work slowly without them? Boots would seem to be a good idea while you get her diet adjusted.

 

[GinaGem]

My mare was barefoot for about 5 years and we put shoes straight on without probs.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Do your physio or your vet know anything about how 24/7 grass makes a very high proportion of barefoot horses footie? She should be more comfortable by now even on paddock rest for 7 months.

If she was mine and I still wanted her to try barefoot I would take her off the grass during the day and be trying to find out whether my grazing was low or high in important minerals. Many people are finding that they need to supplement copper, for example, to get their horses happy on stones. I am one of them because my land is high in manganese and iron, which prevents copper absorption.


It seems such a shame to shoe her now if you really don't want to. Can we help you with any information that would let you start work slowly without them? Boots would seem to be a good idea while you get her diet adjusted.

She has been off the grass, during the day. The grazing is unimproved meadow grazing, with a high natural min content. I am having some issue finding a company that feels they can give me a reading on my pasture as it's some 25 acres, split by streams with a variety of different areas which the horses are moved around according to our other stock.

I would be hugely surprised if supplementing minerals can make her happy on hardcore when her feet are on incredibly soft, giving ground and have had no exposure to any toughenning surfaces, do you not any more, condition horses feet TO a surface by slow exposure TO said surface?

My point is, I am unable to go through this conditioning period which I feel is essential in order to strengthen her feet. So it's either boots or shoes I guess, but surely BOTH mean her own feet will never cope?

 

[Ranyhyn]

My mare was barefoot for about 5 years and we put shoes straight on without probs.

Thank you that's what I was hoping to hear!

 

[meesha]

My chap was barefoot from backing to age 6 ish - he was getting short in stride - tried boots - his stride lengthened so took decision to shoe him - farrier came along - popped 4 on and off we went - nice long striding horse again - no issues from having shoes on at all after having been ridden without for so long x

 

[Ranyhyn]

Thanks Meesha

 

[ester]

am speaking somewhat hypothetically here but if you were to boot her she still gets plenty of time out of boots, in a field, which is likely to only improve her feet/allow them to function better given that she has had pathologies. (and possibly grow themselves out quicker too). If you put shoes on she has to have them on all the time.

fwiw I have found the boots very easy to deal with, so much so I even take them off and on again for the grass bits of our hacks (just because i do think it better for frank to be on his real feet when possible).

I'd think it sensible to start bringing her back into work round the edge of your 25 acres if poss without shoes and see how she goes. If she stays sound then make the decision then?

 

[Andalusianlover1]

Do your physio or your vet know anything about how 24/7 grass makes a very high proportion of barefoot horses footie? She should be more comfortable by now even on paddock rest for 7 months.

If the OP horse has been turned out without shoes and she is footy then its simple, put shoes back on.

It seems such a shame to shoe her now if you really don't want to. .

It isnt up to the OP to decide whats best for the horse, its the horses decision, she's footy then shoe.

I'm not anti barefoot, just all the theories behind expensive diets/supplements etc. My Andalusian was unshod for 3 years untill recently when his roadwork increased to the point where his feet were too worn. Throughout the three years he evented, SJ, pleasure rides, plenty of roadwork without any change to to his boring old diet or the addition of expensive over-rated supplements. He's now shod allround again and is fine.

Op - Your horse probably wont notice he's been shod again so no need to worry about preparation.

 

[Ranyhyn]

It just feels counter productive to boot, I don't know how her feel will adapt anyway when totally cushioned from roadwork/stone work - therefore really what's the difference between shoeing and not letting the foot work and booting and not letting the foot work?

After all, she was never barefoot/unshod or whatever is the pc term because she was unsound/unhappy in shoes. It was purely because of the mess her feet were in due to unsympathetic farriery and the fact she was down with an abscess for so long.

Being as she's out 24/7 I can't see her coming in lame from walking in hand on grass so I'm not sure what that'll tell me/achieve?

 

[Beausmate]

I recently put fronts back on my chap after eight years without. I gave him a few days to get used to them, as he was walking like Herman Munster!

They will be coming off again as soon as the cracked and holey wall has grown out. He's just as footy with them on though!

 

[dafthoss]

I think the reasoning behind boots is that they arnt perminant so the foot can still function as it should 23 hours a day but the horse is protected from the bits that make them uncomfortable during work and that the boots do work the foot only less so than without.

I'm not against shoes as such but I think in your situation I'd boot to start with and see how you get on, they are cheaper in the long run as they last longer and you can always sell them on if you decide to shoe again in the future.

But if you do decide to shoe my farrier doesnt have any problems with first timers, prefrers them to ones that others have messed up in the past and just takes it a little slower.

 

[Ranyhyn]

I think the reasoning behind boots is that they arnt perminant so the foot can still function as it should 23 hours a day but the horse is protected from the bits that make them uncomfortable during work and that the boots do work the foot only less so than without.

But if that 23 hours, they are on soft ground and in that one hour they are completely cushioned from feeling anything hard/abrasive - how are they getting any exposure to the surface in order to make their feet stronger in their first place?
IE) you could work that horse for that hour in an arena (working the foot, getting the blood to it..etc etc) , but it'd STILL be footy on stones, because the hoof hasn't had any chance to toughen up?

So yeah i realise the foot is working but working isn't really toughenning up the hoof, it can just be "work"...can't it?

Like our feet, you can indeed run in trainers - but it isn't in any way preparing you to run barefoot on tarmac, is it?

Hope that makes sense!

 

[meesha]

I tried using boots - I found them a pain - ok to put on and they stayed on but very very slippery in mud (old mac boots - the tread filled up with mud a bit like trainers do) and didnt have the confidence to jump in them. They were great on tarmac as grippy but again on wet grass didnt have major confidence in them. This is only my personal findings - if you were only hacking round block couple of times a week boots would certainly fit the bill (make sure you measure feet carefully).

 

[ester]

Ah I forgot you were walking her in hand to start, I suppose I was more thinking about ridden work/ walking and starting trotting etc, I know we could do this in our if necessary as flat but not sure about yours!

I think of a different definition of 'work' these days. Boots allow the hoof to expand and contract a bit when it hits the floor and it keeps the frog engaged in weight bearing activities whereas shoes don't. I think Frank will be in front boots most of the time for a while yet because his soles are so flat, hopefully when they get less so he will be able to go without and his feet might need more surface conditioning then but they will have a good start.

I'd love to be able to tell its working great but its such a work in progress I can't yet, just my take on the physics really.

eta I was obv slow typing I'm hoping that its not just the work on tough surfaces that make a difference but the actual integrity of the foot iyswim. In some ways I thought it better when the ground was hard foot wise.. but now its not we can do some trotting so not sure!

 

[Pale Rider]

Not really barefoot, just reshoeing a shod horse.

 

[dafthoss]

But if that 23 hours, they are on soft ground and in that one hour they are completely cushioned from feeling anything hard/abrasive - how are they getting any exposure to the surface in order to make their feet stronger in their first place?
IE) you could work that horse for that hour in an arena (working the foot, getting the blood to it..etc etc) , but it'd STILL be footy on stones, because the hoof hasn't had any chance to toughen up?

So yeah i realise the foot is working but working isn't really toughenning up the hoof, it can just be "work"...can't it?

Like our feet, you can indeed run in trainers - but it isn't in any way preparing you to run barefoot on tarmac, is it?

Hope that makes sense!

Yeah I do get what your saying but I *think* the concussion helps to harden the feet a little and hopefully if this rain ever stops the field should harden up so s/he would then gradually get used to the hard ground. Is it the hard or is it just the stones that cause a problem? stones seem to cause lots of problems to some horses but hard flat surfaces dont seem to as much. Sure the bf taliban will be along soon to help you properly.

 

[ester]

dh frank is happier on the hardcore in the yard than he is with those little gritty pointy stones on the tarmac.. I did threaten to do and sweep it after the road flooded.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Haven't had a problem with putting shoes back on an unshod horse, they're fine straight away.

Currently have two unshod working horses and I do sympathise with you about soft ground. The continual wet weather makes it very difficult to keep feet in good condition.