Good doer NF- giving up the will to live!!

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Rupert-the-bear

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Hi all,

Just looking for some advice really on feed rations, in particular hay for my very good doer 14.1hh NF. He is currently out during the day 6am-6pm (ish) on decent for the time of year grazing with no added hay unless its frozen, and comes in at night with 2.5kg of hay and 0.75kg fast fibre. He is only in work 3/4 times a week and quite a few weekends we compete, but no strenuous work. He's fully clipped and in in medium weights atm as he is a very cold horse.

Despite all my efforts to keep him a good weight, with this little food he is still bigger than I'd like him to be. I had it under control during the summer as he was ridden for 1-2 hours everyday and on starvation paddock, however in the autumn YO gave him big grassy field and he piled on the weight in a matter of days.

Its not physically possible to ride him more, and I'm already concerned by the fact he's standing in most of the night with nothing to eat and the health concerns that come with that, however how do I get a a balance between morbidly obese and all those health risks, and losing weight with no food at all????????

Although I appreciate that all horses are different, I know of one 12.3hh NF on ad-lib haylage and 2 hard feeds a day in the same work with no issues, and other scenario's like it and I just don't get it!

Sorry for all the rambling, just at a loss at what to do as I try my hardest :confused:
 
My VERY good doer NF gets a large double netted small hole haynet for the night which has been soaked for a minimum of 12 hours, in the day he grazes the poor quality & very mixed grass area. That's it. He hacks out a couple of times a week, say a total of 8 miles, that's all the time I can spare him. That seems to keep his weight under control.
 
I would soak your hay for starters and feed from a small holed net and possibly stick a muzzle on him on alternate days out in the field. He doesn't need any hay in the field at all by the sounds of it so I would cut this out.

I also wouldn't rug him any more than you are at the moment... we still have colder weather to come so he should shift some by spring!
 
How much does he actually weigh?

My nf is on shortish grazing but do move the fence 3/4 times a week and 8lbs (don't work in kg) of haylage and 2 scoops molasses free alfa a, 2 mugs baileys, 3 mugs conditioning cubes and still needs to put more weight on. Oh and rugged up very well. He does a lot of competing though and work at home. Just more work is all I can think of!
 
rachaelstar said:
How much does he actually weigh?

My nf is on shortish grazing but do move the fence 3/4 times a week and 8lbs (don't work in kg) of haylage and 2 scoops molasses free alfa a, 2 mugs baileys, 3 mugs conditioning cubes and still needs to put more weight on. Oh and rugged up very well. He does a lot of competing though and work at home. Just more work is all I can think of!
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8lbs of haylage is not very much, you should feed more haylage than you would hay because of the moisture content it will weigh more. If you want more weight on upping the haylage should be enough to make a difference, he will also keep warmer if he is eating more of the time.
 
My 13.2 new forest is a very good doer. She's currently stabled 24/7 due to the fact her turnout paddock is underwater! But she normally is turned out on some rough grazing during the day, and then she has 12lbs of soaked hay, a stubbs scoop of hi fi lite and half a scoop of cool mix. She's currently worked 6 days a week and is hunting as much as poss! But normally about every other week. And I personally think she's looking and feeling fab atm!

I would be stopping any hard feed, stopping the hay in the field and maybe as cruel as it sounds letting him shiver a bit off!

It is really tough though and I appreciate how stressful it is!!
 
Thanks everyone!

His hay is already in a very small holed haynet, but the greedy pig eats it so fast! Unfortunately can't soak hay as YO is a bit funny about stuff like that, and also he won't eat it (will literally go for days without eating rather than eat it!) Also, he can't be muzzled as then he attacks his field mate :o

When I say hay in field when frozen, I mean for example when it was -6 the other morning and all grass was frozen he had 1.5kg in field (I worry about lami/colic risk of frozen grass)

Furthermore, his 'hard feed' is actually an extremely lo-cal (a quarter of the sugar of my hay) hay replacer, which I feed to put supplements in and because it takes him a lot longer to eat it than the same amount of hay!

Can't increase exercise at all! Tbh I think I've exhausted all options, can't see any other way! He is by no means really fat, just well covered (Will get some pictures for you tomorrow) Can just about feel ribs, has a naturally big crest as was cut late etc, I just feel keeping him at this OK weight by constant starving isn't sustainable! :confused:
 
Sounds to me as thou he isn't actually getting enough fibre going thru so his metabolism has slowed right down to cope with the lack of food.

I have my own NF's and honestly know how hard it is but to be fair you really need to be soaking that hay and increasing the ration, for example mine go thru 3kg dry weight in just 3hrs so yours would be roughly the same and then stood with nothing. He will eat it soaked if he is hungry believe me, one of mine was like that, she lasted 2 days before she realised she simply wasn't getting anything else so ate up. Try mixing it in with the dry to wean him onto it. Your YO surely can't dictate how you feed your own pony??? Soaking hay is such a basic necessity for good doers to be able to feed much more to keep the gut moving, sorry but if someone told me i couldn't soak my own hay on a yard then i'd be voting with my feet........

Rugging, drop the weight down below 200g, mine are all fully clipped, out 24/7 and just today i've dropped them back down to rainsheets with 100g liners as they have all been too hot, unless he is stood in a corner shivering then he isn't cold, stabled he may need more as stood still but out in the field he can move round to warm up. Even in - temps mine never go higher than 200g and they are never cold, cool to the touch under the rug as they should be, they shouldn't feel 'toasty'.

It's an up hill battle but if you don't get on top of it now then come Spring you will be struggling.....
 
His metabolism slowing down was one of my idea's too, so tried him with much more hay, and he just piled on the weight until he became really fat :/ In regards to the soaking hay, no he really doesn't eat it! For a few weeks last winter he was stabled 24/7, and for one whole week he didn't eat anything except a handful of chaff morning and evening because he wouldn't eat the soaked hay....SPECIAL PONY LOL!

Yes, YO is very strict and gets all strange about things like that, however moving yards is not an option at all as I have no transport to have to rely on lifts/walking to the yard and as I live in the middle of no-where there's nothing else for miles :( Rugging wise, he is cold to the touch under his rug, and if its raining stands shivering by the gate so don't really want to drop them anymore.

Contrary to many people, I don't have any issues in the spring, the weight just falls off of him and has to go onto higher energy feed or he's all bones!

Please don't feel I'm picking holes in all your good suggestions, just i've tried them all and not really sure there's any other options other than to have him slightly more covered than i'd like for a few months of the year?!
 
Mine wont eat wet hay not even if it is rained on so I understand your grief I do substitute some hay with barley straw though and make sure they get speedibeet as a laxative to keep their guts moving. It means they can have great big haylage nets and pick at them. If I could get oat straw I would feed that exclusively with the fast fibre feed and a bit of speedibeet. Mine live out 24/7 and I find that hey soon lose weight in March and April so dont mind them being a bit fatter just now
 
I have a good doer NF and it is really difficult as their metabolism is such that they pile on the weight in the summer and autumn ready to use during the winter when resources are scarce and it is colder.

However for most domesticated natives resources are never scarce and they are kept warm with rugs etc so it is harder to loose the weight.

If your pony does slim down in the spring then nature is probably taking its course and he is using the fat to keep warm etc during the winter.

My new forest only gets hay in the field if its snows but he normally lives out. He does tend to lose weight during the winter though.

If your hay is very good quality could you try and source some older hay that is not as good.
 
I have a nf that can be fat on very little. He has lost 57kg since feb 19th. What did I change? I soaked his hay; swapped some hay for straw and put him in a sparse paddock. He gets 4kg at night double netted at 7pm. At 6am he gets fast fibre (250grm dry weight) with chaff. He works max 4 days a week. I also give him 1.5kg hay in his field.
 
I have a 16.1hh warmblood x welsh d and she's a very good doer and her management is very strict as she has had lami in the past. I give her a very small net then exercise her every morning, then she gets turned out for 5 hours with a Greenguard grazing muzzle. I stable her at night and she gets 1 x cup of fast fibre with a bit of happy hoof and 15lbs (7kgs) of soaked hay in elim-a-nets. She is fully clipped apart from half a head & legs and is just in a medium weight. This management seems to suit her & her weight is correct.

You say your won't eat soaked hay. When I first gave my mare soaked hay she point blank refused to eat it. The vet told me to persevere, he said she will eat it if she's hungry. Although it was hard to see the vet was right, it took a while but she did eat it and because she had soaked hay for so long she now prefers it to dry hay.
 
I have a dieting Westphalian who supplements her weighed ration of haylage with oatstraw chaff. An alternative to this would be long oatstraw. Does your horse have a straw bed or shavings? If he has straw, I wouldn't worry too much about him finishing his hay very early he will just pick at the straw. However if he is on shavings, or something else inedible, I would give him the chaff.
 
I second mixing his hay with straw, that way you can give him more and maybe cut out the hard food!
I was shocked at how much sugar was in one of the feeds that the laminitis trust recommends! Try putting a couple of handfuls of your chaff in some water, then squeeze it out, and see how brown the water turns to see how much!!
Why is it that he looses more weight in spring?
 
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