Grade 2 heart murmur in whippet

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
926
Visit site
As the title says really, found during a routine vet check. I'm looking for some sighthound people/vets/anyone to talk me through this a bit, and stop me fussing too much!

Whippet is 9 years old, so something like this is to be expected. I'm aware it needs more investigation and scans etc.

I haven't noticed anything like coughing, exercise intolerance and he looks just fine. There is the very minor chance of low taurine I suppose, as his regular food has whole peas, but he gets so many different snacks and chews, I'd be surprised.

After a brief and ill-advised Google search, it seems murmurs in whippets are well recognised, and in some cases related to 'athletic heart', and also easily misdiagnosed

Thanks for any advice in advance!
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
Although I haven’t had whippets for many years both of mine had heart murmurs in later life (one was show bred, the other coursing bred) - my older whippet was on medication (diuretics in those days!) but she enjoyed a very good quality of life until I lost her at 15 years old

To be honest my little greyhound (aged 12) was diagnosed with a grade 1-2 heart murmur a few months ago and I haven’t given it a second thought. Perhaps that’s because I have grown up with cavaliers, who have far more serious heart murmurs as a matter of course 🙄

In my personal opinion I certainly wouldn’t worry about having scans or any further tests done unless the dog is showing clear symptoms - exercise intolerance and dry cough being the usual ones you see. Heart murmurs can also be very subjective - a few years ago my old greyhound Islay was diagnosed with a heart murmur when I reported that she had a reduced exercise tolerance, and she was put on medication. A year or so later she went in for her booster vaccination and the vet asked me why on earth she was on medication when she didn’t have a murmur 😄

In all seriousness OP I really wouldn’t worry at the moment unless you see physical signs developing. A grade 1 or 2 is nothing to worry about in my experience
 

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
926
Visit site
Thanks Levrier- I had asked a vet friends very trusted opinion, and told more or less the same thing. Its great to hear ( and I was sneakily hoping for your input as well), so I can try and calm down a little

Given the way he's towing me along for walks (its on lead with roads at the moment due to no car), I'd say he's doing fine. I thought he was panting more after belting about after bunnies, but it was an unusually warm day and equally we are both a bit unfit.

Unfortunate timing as I'm more crackers than usual due to house and job move, but in fairness, he had to get the focus of attention back on him!
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
Oh that gave me a wry laugh, yes of course he did - he’s a sighthound 😂

One of mine has achieved over £1,000 in vets bills in the last couple of months, I think she thinks it’s a competition 🙄😄

I hope that has set your mind at rest a little, as you’ve probably noticed I’m paranoid about my lot so I do sympathise. Flick greyhound wouldn’t settle at 5am this morning and I was convinced she was going to have another stroke..... it turned out Marty had dared to occupy the sofa that Flick wanted, and he wouldn’t get off for her!
 

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
926
Visit site
I knew a recognised a fellow over-worrier! Yes, I tend to go to 'worst case' scenario, but for you, obviously a stroke is a huge stress, and I really hope things continue to progress for Flick

Whippets and sofas- I've yet to break the news that his personal sofa is going to be in storage for a little while!
 

Parrotperson

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 July 2016
Messages
2,138
Visit site
my little JRT has a heart murmur. vet said a good way of monitoring it is to count the number of breaths when she is asleep. should be about 12-16. if it increases drastically you know there's a problem. Having said that she s at 18 at the mo and perfectly ok! I do't check too often because, well as l;omg as she's ok in herself I don't overthink it.
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
my little JRT has a heart murmur. vet said a good way of monitoring it is to count the number of breaths when she is asleep. should be about 12-16. if it increases drastically you know there's a problem. Having said that she s at 18 at the mo and perfectly ok! I do't check too often because, well as l;omg as she's ok in herself I don't overthink it.

That's really interesting - I have asked my vets on 2 or 3 occasions about Flick's increased breathing rate and not one of them has suggested it could be linked to her heart murmur! Having said that, they have had a whole load of other stuff to focus on as well :D

Paisley - your boy cannot possibly be without his personal sofa, how WILL he survive :D :D :D
 

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
926
Visit site
my little JRT has a heart murmur. vet said a good way of monitoring it is to count the number of breaths when she is asleep. should be about 12-16. if it increases drastically you know there's a problem. Having said that she s at 18 at the mo and perfectly ok! I do't check too often because, well as l;omg as she's ok in herself I don't overthink it.
Thanks for that, a handy little tip. I'd be delighted if my little danger seeking missile got to 18! Off to set a stop watch and stare at his chest obsessively now 🤣
 

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
926
Visit site
That's really interesting - I have asked my vets on 2 or 3 occasions about Flick's increased breathing rate and not one of them has suggested it could be linked to her heart murmur! Having said that, they have had a whole load of other stuff to focus on as well :D

Paisley - your boy cannot possibly be without his personal sofa, how WILL he survive :D:D:D

I imagine he will struggle through but I will be made to understand this is essentially 'SAS for whippets- are you tough enough?'
I foolishly bought a four seater thinking it would do for one person and a small skinny dog- so wrong!
 

Leo Walker

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2013
Messages
12,384
Location
Northampton
Visit site
Vets always exclaim about my 2s low resting heart rate. When Dylan was mega fit he caused a bit of a stir and the vet scuttled off to get a second opinion, as his heart rate was so low. He was doing 50 miles a week fell walking, well more accurately, I was, he was doing double that, so you can imagine how fit he was. I always preface an exam with a statement about it before they get their hands on him.

I wouldnt be too worried about a grade 2 murmur in a happy, well feeling dog with no symptoms :)
 

splashgirl45

Lurcher lover
Joined
6 March 2010
Messages
16,354
Location
suffolk
Visit site
my last 2 lurchers had heart murmers and my vet said sighthounds are prone to them. my last lurcher was diagnosed as grade 2 by one vet and another vet in the same practice said she was grade 4. heart was not the reason for both being PTS so i wouldnt worry but just be aware if symptoms turn to coughing or shortness of breath..
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
my last 2 lurchers had heart murmers and my vet said sighthounds are prone to them.

Hmmmph - unsurprisingly I would disagree with the vets about that, I have only had 2 greyhounds with very low grade heart murmurs in the past 17 years which to me is incredibly low :D (which means it is probably about average :p )
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
I imagine he will struggle through but I will be made to understand this is essentially 'SAS for whippets- are you tough enough?'
I foolishly bought a four seater thinking it would do for one person and a small skinny dog- so wrong!

Your descriptions are wonderful, I do think we need more pictures if possible please :D
 

splashgirl45

Lurcher lover
Joined
6 March 2010
Messages
16,354
Location
suffolk
Visit site
Hmmmph - unsurprisingly I would disagree with the vets about that, I have only had 2 greyhounds with very low grade heart murmurs in the past 17 years which to me is incredibly low :D (which means it is probably about average :p )

maybe its lurchers not greyhounds, neither of mine showed any symptoms but were picked up on their annual vaccinations...wonder if vets nowadays are looking for more, these were my last 2 lurchers and i had never been told any of my others had them, but i dont remember previous vets checking hearts etc when going for annual vaccinations....who knows??? :rolleyes:
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
maybe its lurchers not greyhounds, neither of mine showed any symptoms but were picked up on their annual vaccinations...wonder if vets nowadays are looking for more, these were my last 2 lurchers and i had never been told any of my others had them, but i dont remember previous vets checking hearts etc when going for annual vaccinations....who knows??? :rolleyes:

Possibly so, although my vets have always done a mini MOT - hearts, ears, eyes and lungs - when doing vaccinations for as long as I can remember :) It is very subjective as I've said earlier on the thread, and I suspect (as a lay person with absolutely no scientific evidence to support this!) that vets are more likely to diagnose now than they used to be :)
 

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
926
Visit site
Your descriptions are wonderful, I do think we need more pictures if possible please :D
As if I need encouraging to show pictures- he's surprisingly hard to get a good photo of, but here you go - the boy and his sofa, plus the one where I like to think he's two cheese earrings away from being the laughing cow

Thanks to all who replied, its been very helpful and reassuring, and very much appreciated!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0587.JPG
    IMG_0587.JPG
    105.3 KB · Views: 13
  • IMG_0736.JPG
    IMG_0736.JPG
    95.8 KB · Views: 13
  • IMG_0855.JPG
    IMG_0855.JPG
    91 KB · Views: 13
  • IMG_1034.JPG
    IMG_1034.JPG
    136.8 KB · Views: 13

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
Oh lovely pics Paisley - the second and third ones made me lol, they are pure whippet nature 😄 he is a lovely boy ❤️
 

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
926
Visit site
Thanks Levrier- you've got to love the pointy snouted ones 😂 I did look at the second photo and think ' possibly my dog is a little bit spoilt' 😜
 

rara007

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 April 2007
Messages
28,643
Location
Essex
Visit site
Bucking the trend- if mine developed a murmur and I wasn’t skinted I’d have him scanned. They’re done conscious and very quickly if you get an expert in so the only damage to a dog that copes with handling is the owners pocket! If it’s a low grade maybe worth a second opinion to check it’s really there but an all ok scan is better than a regret. You then know where you’re at and what you might be heading to. Slightly different if the finances are not available, the dog is already so unwell or old it’s not going to change it’s quality of life or your dog really can’t cope with a quick conscious ultrasound. Currently getting my sisters fit and young (collie rather than lurcher) through endocarditis and touch wood she’s doing well but hearts do a lot of naughty things before they give you clinical signs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aru

Aru

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 December 2008
Messages
2,377
Visit site
Grade 2 is unlikley to be an issue in an otherwise healthy dog and the sighthounds are reasonably prone to murmurs...but I'm a paranoid person and if he was mine I'd scan.
The potential DCM with legumes/grainfree issue has me more wary of heart issues then normal..and I'd rather overeact then miss something potentially treatable.
 

druid

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 December 2004
Messages
7,933
Visit site
I'd have an echo done also, if only to give you a base line going forward if things get worse bid also consider my food choices
 

Leo Walker

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2013
Messages
12,384
Location
Northampton
Visit site
Thanks Levrier- you've got to love the pointy snouted ones 😂 I did look at the second photo and think ' possibly my dog is a little bit spoilt' 😜

Nope, mine get treated exactly the same. They sleep in the bed, are almost never left home alone, aren't made to go out in the rain, have a huge box delivered from Zooplus every month with chews and treats, basically we run our lives around them. And in return they love us unconditionally and nothing beats the adoration of a spoilt whippet!
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
paisley - wish I could tag you properly! - I thought of you this evening!

flick was diagnosed with a grade 1-2 heart murmur a couple of months ago. Not showing any of the usual signs - cough/exercise intolerance- probably due to her stroke on 1st April

I took her back to the vets tonight as she was still displaying increased heart/respiratory rate. Diagnosis - “probably” due to heart, put on Vetmedin and dietetics for a week, her heart murmur had apparently increased to a 3/4 grade

The vet offered a heart scan, which I declined as it wouldn’t actually prove anything. It might ‘disprove’ certain things, but you’d be no closer to knowing what was actually wrong with your dog ☹️ I am personally getting incredibly pissed off with vets who use expensive tests and diagnostics to show what it isn’t, when they are then forced to admit that they have no clue what it actually IS!

So if she doesn’t miraculously respond to a week on Vetmedin I’ll conclude that.its something else & I’ll treat accounting to the symptoms that present themselves

ETA - vet states NFA necessary in the event of a grade 1-2 murmur
 

SusieT

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 September 2009
Messages
5,939
Visit site
heart scan will differentiate between murmur being caused by a dilated heart, a heart with a valve problem and a heart with a narrowed valve or nothing at all to worry about it- so yes it can change the treatment and prognosis (and make a difference in appropriate meds or tests- e.g . diets at the moment there is the concern over dilated heart - and vetmedin is contra indicated for some problems)
I'm not sure how a vet is expected to know the difference between these without a scan... If you are insured or well off I wouldn't hesitate to scan OP
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
heart scan will differentiate between murmur being caused by a dilated heart, a heart with a valve problem and a heart with a narrowed valve or nothing at all to worry about it- so yes it can change the treatment and prognosis (and make a difference in appropriate meds or tests- e.g . diets at the moment there is the concern over dilated heart - and vetmedin is contra indicated for some problems)
I'm not sure how a vet is expected to know the difference between these without a scan... If you are insured or well off I wouldn't hesitate to scan OP

Wow that’s funny,the polar opposite to what my qualified vet said on the matter this evening? Remind me of your qualifications SusieT? 😊
 

rara007

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 April 2007
Messages
28,643
Location
Essex
Visit site
You need to find somewhere you have confidence in and are happy scanning hearts! (Or somewhere with a friend happy to scan hearts). I’ve got exact measurements of the size of the valve with the infection on from the start and now. Echo should be a very sensitive tool, and heart drugs you can ‘guess’ wrong and send something into failure early, or just waste a fair amount of money on drugs you don’t need. Admittedly it’s only a few cases that you can get it wrong but it’s a pretty fatal mistake. It’s not going to financially be an option for everyone to scan and some dogs won’t tolerate it or won’t take the drugs but I’m afraid you’ve been misinformed if you’ve been told echo won’t give more information.
 
Last edited:

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
You need to find somewhere you have confidence in and are happy scanning hearts! (Or somewhere with a friend happy to scan hearts). I’ve got exact measurements of the size of the valve with the infection on from the start and now. Echo should be a very sensitive tool, and heart drugs you can ‘guess’ wrong and send something into failure early, or just waste a fair amount of money on drugs you don’t need. Admittedly it’s only a few cases that you can get it wrong but it’s a pretty fatal mistake. It’s not going to financially be an option for everyone to scan and some dogs won’t tolerate it or won’t take the drugs but I’m afraid you’ve been misinformed if you’ve been told echo won’t give more information.

Oh I don’t doubt it would give more information, and I haven’t been misinformed by my vet who was keen on this option - however usually (in my experience over the last 20’years) this will tell me what isn’t wrong! Unless we strike it “lucky” and the symptoms are due to (for example) heart problems. In which case the treatment will be just the same as that which has already been prescribed.....

This dog is 12 years old and a sighthound who apparently is prone to heart problems (news to me!) - if she was a 6 year old dog my approach would be entirely different, but I wonder how much you might extend quality of life for the dog concerned in this case.
 

rara007

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 April 2007
Messages
28,643
Location
Essex
Visit site
Echo has progressed quite a bit in the last 5 years let alone 20! It’s rare it doesn’t give you an answer these days and I’m surprised he left you with the impression it’d be a fishing exercise. I expect they’re down to two or three most likelys depending on the nature of murmur with a couple of possibles left.
That’s a different question to is it appropriate for a dog with already some question marks over its quality of life.
FWIW our old lab had low level heart disease (likely DCM) for approx 3 months but didn’t get a scan or any treatment as that wasn’t in his best interests by that point.
 
Top