Graded/Registered/Licensed...?

JDChaser

JDChaser

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Hey, i'm sorry i'm sure this has been asked before but can someone give me a numptys guide to Stallions?? I'm so confused by the difference between them being graded, approved, licensed, registed, elite...! And about which ones go through the performance testing. And why are some members of more than one studbook
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I'm sorry, i really am a total novice when it comes to things like this... any info appreciated
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Licensing is done by the studbook in Germany and Performance Testing is done by organisations controlled by the Local Authorities.
To be approved for Hanoverian breeding the stallion must have been licensed at the annual stallion show out of 600 stallions each year about 60 to 70 are licensed and they can cover a limited number of mares in the following year. For the next year they have to have completed performance requirements in competition or at a stallion testing center. They will have been xrayed and vetted including the stifle. All horses are seen under saddle. These are among the highest standards of stallion approval. If a studbook wants to improve its bloodlines as the Breeding Director feels there is need to improve for jumping or dressage then a stallion from another breeding association is approved. In the UK we have hardly any testing under saddle for stallions and most are approved in hand.
 
No, most studbooks hold stallion gradings - registered, graded, licensed etc. usually refers to the level of approval given to the individual horse by the studbook, this may limit the number of mares the stallion can cover. Performance testing is standard on the continent, the stallion goes to a testing centre for a set number of days and is assessed throughout its time there.
UK studbook gradings require a thorough 5 stage vetting before stallions are put forward. Many require x-rays before a horse is presented. Just because British studbooks don't have performance testing it doesn't necessarily follow that British stallions aren't as good as German ones - we don't have the history of WB breeding in the UK that they have on the continent, our horsebreeding industry has developed from the TB, a great may of which have been used to improve continental warmblood breeding, and there is NO grading for TBs and their performance testing is out on the racetrack. You can apply this principal in a lot of respects to the British sportshorse breeding too - many of our stallions have their performance tested in the competition arena, and have to prove themselves to become popular, rather than a great marketing machine ensuring that hundreds of foals get churned out because a young horse did well in a performance test!

Stallions can be approved for multiple studbooks and this means that their offspring will be eligible for full papers with the various studbooks, depending upon which the dam is registered with/graded into.
 
With the AES, registered is the lowest grading, then licensed, approved, elite. Not sure on SHBGB or SSH or Equicours, details on their websites perhaps. Stallions are jumped and/or paces assessed at UK Gradings that I have been to.
 
It is a bit confusing as it depends on the society as to what the words mean!
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In the German studbooks, Registered would be the studbook the horse was first registered in as a foal.

Licensed is the first stage of breeding approval & is only temporary. All the stallions put forward for licensing are vetted & X-rayed & for most studbooks the dam of the stallion has also had to pass a ridden mare performance test.

In addition to licensing, full lifetime breeding approval requires either passing a 30 day test & Bundeschampionat qualification or passing a 70 day test.

Older stallions who are successful in sport can also be approved on their competition results which for dressage, depending on the studbook, is several placings 1st to 3rd at PSG.

Most stallions when approved will be entered in several studbooks.
 
It varies greatly from stud book to stud book.

A stallion that is licensed for instance KWPN could also be 'Approved' with a german stud book.
Boston (the Jazz stallion) is a really good example as he is registered (as a foal) KWPN, licensed British Warmblood (went to a licensing event and was granted a license) and has also been approved by the Oldenburg and Bavarian stud books (so they will also issue covering certificates).

Registered - Generally it is the stud book of initial registration as a foal which can be a bit misleading as people will often put registered KWPN or Hannoverian for example, which to people who don't fully understand often implies that stallion is licensed with that society whereas it may be licensed AES or ZFDP for example which are less scrutinizing stud books.

They all vary a bit, for the AES is it as follows http://www.angloeuropeanstudbook.info/mares_stallions_grading.htm (they have a registered status for stallions) but generally when people say registered is the society of initial registration as a foal.

Generally for the Hanoverians, Oldenburg, KWPN, Rheinland, Westfalhen, ie. German Dutch, Belgium and French societies, they are either licensed of not licensed (sometimes they are licensed but limit them, say 20 mares for example).
Generally with these stud books the next step after licensing (age 2.5yrs) is a performance test which can be either 30 or 70 days where a minimum score has to be achieved for the license to continue and if its performance is inadequate its license will be taken away which we don't have over here. It is a continual assessment system so the stalion is looked at at 2.5yrs with x-rays for type, movement and jumping ability (loose) then again once it is under saddle at 3/4yrs to see if its talents are still evident under saddle and its temperament and rideability as a ridden horse is good. If the horse has not been through the 30/70 day test system it has to have been placed at the Bundeschampionate (German Federal Championships). If it fulfills the above criteria it will then be life approved - with the KWPN they will access the foals and if they are not up to standard they will take the license away.

That is a general overview basically the standards of approval for the major european the books are very high - Hanoverian, Oldenburg, Westfahlen, Rheinland, KWPN, Belgium Warmblood, SF etc etc.
The zfdp and the British & Scottish studbooks do have a lesser reputation although do have some good stallions go through them, its just the less good ones that also get through that drag the reputation down a bit unfortunately.
 
Opps, wrote that before i went out for dinner and have just refreshed page and noticed most of what i've put has already been said!! lol!!
 
As far as ZfdP goes they have several studbooks for different breeds & colours, as well as their main warmblood book (Deutsches pferde), which adds a bit more confusion!!

These books are also split into book 1 & book 2. Stallions who license into book 1, but who dont then fulfil the performance requirements in the allocated time drop down into the second book & wouldnt normally be used for breeding.
 
Thanks so much everyone - i feel a lot clearer now! Especially realising it is different for each studbook. I was getting confused by the different messages from each one. Thanks again x
 
Ditto everyone else.

If a stallion is advertised only as "graded", to me that means that he did not get good marks and is likely in the lowest grade of the Studbook in question, because normally people will shout from the rooftops if their stallion has done well at a grading.

Also "Registered" may mean just that they have their passport and papers with a Studbook, or like the AES they have "Registered" stallions.

My general rule of thumb is only ever look for a stallion that is advertised as "Licensed or Approved".
 
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Ditto everyone else.

If a stallion is advertised only as "graded", to me that means that he did not get good marks and is likely in the lowest grade of the Studbook in question, because normally people will shout from the rooftops if their stallion has done well at a grading.

Also "Registered" may mean just that they have their passport and papers with a Studbook, or like the AES they have "Registered" stallions.

My general rule of thumb is only ever look for a stallion that is advertised as "Licensed or Approved".

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Just out of interest, how many people are of this opinion (ie effectively that 'graded' really means 'just scraped through with lowest possible pass marks'? I have to say that if there are then there should be a whole lot of revisions going on in people's stud cards and web sites (eg I say Rin is SPSS graded but according to this post it would be better if I put SPSS Approved which is actually the same and is why he has an A prefix on his studbook (as distinct from UELN) number). OTOH there are some studbooks especially in the UK (eg WBBUK and SHBGB) that have no other category than Graded (although the WBBUK does have Groups I, II and III, I being the highest) and in some German studbooks Licencing is preparatory to full graded status which is only conferred after performance testing (in whatever form the studbook and stallion undertakes). Also some native breeds describe all stallions that have undergone their basic vetting for stallions as Licenced by them, so as that is the case with Rin and WPCS (being a Section D) perhaps he can proudly boast Licenced status too -- just not with a WB or SH book <ROFL>.

I am afraid that the longer I am in this business the more I realise that there are no hard and fast rule on anything and the use of the word Graded is one of them. And BTW, does anyone know of any ZfDP graded stallions in this country that are in their lower section or any that were originally in Group I and have been demoted because they did not complete the performance tests? And is it possible for a Group 2 stallion to do such a good performance test that he is promoted to Group 2 or are Group 2s not expected to do a performance test? Does anyone know as the PSHP is trying to draw up a guide to all these different categories across all the studbooks operating in the UK and some of the web sites are a bit vague on specifics (possibly due to langauage difficulties).
 
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and in some German studbooks Licencing is preparatory to full graded status which is only conferred after performance testing (in whatever form the studbook and stallion undertakes).

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Ciss, I think you cannot compare the Studbooks abroad with the ones in the UK as far as stallion gradings go. Yes stallions are "Licensed" for a start, but these Studbooks have strong grading and selection procedures, i.e. Hanoverians, Holstein etc etc, so people have belief in the quality that is on offer.

And I do think that the serious breeders amongst us do see stallions just as "graded" as those who are the ones who “just scraped through”, as you have so eloquently put it. Why put just “graded”, what is that telling any mare owner? Its like saying “well here is my stallion, but I really cannot be bothered to tell you anything else about it”.

If stallion owners want the business then you need to be truthful in what your stallions benefits are to the mare owner. You guys want the mares without putting any effort into marketing them correctly. This is where the Europeans succeed over the UK.

How many times do you read on this forum about stallions and do they suit mare x, y or z. If stallion owners shed more light on this, then mare owners would not have to continually ask the questions.

I stand by my convictions and say to any stallion owner, to just put “Graded” with not even detailing the marks the stallion achieved, or where his strengths lie at a grading, to me means that they are skirting round this issue for a reason.

The same goes for those stallions in the UK who have failed gradings and stand at stud. Just how open are the owners at detailing this fact, or will come up with several excuses as to why they did.

It’s a different story if there was something genuinely wrong with the stallion that stopped it from performing on the day. You will know if that is the case if the stallion is presented again and passes (this happens a lot abroad). However, if they are never taken back or presented to another Studbook of a similar standard then you have to ask yourself “why”. That normally means that the owners are worried themselves about them not passing! (and if that is the case the nuts should be off them IMHO)
 
A few more points on the European Studbooks:
- in the German WB Studbooks, the colts coming up for approval are just 3 years old; first-timers over 3 yrs are not accepted.
- the colts if approval get stud permission for one year at the end of which they have to be presented for the 30 or 70 day stallion tests. If they fail to appear or fail the more-day tests stud approval is revoked.
- if the sire or grandsires are not fully approved with a recognized WB studbook, then the colt will only get entry into the Stallion Book II/Register B.

With respect to Nomis's comments ... I totally agree and must also add that there are stallions that have been presented in England and were 'graded', and based on this 'piece of paper' went on to get full approval with other Studbooks, simply because the graded/licence/approved method is not fully understood.
This is also a form of mis-represetation by the stallion owners and only causes grief to the mare-holders when it comes to registering their foals they find out that they can only get Book II or Register B papers.
 
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