mickey
Well-Known Member
What is the most difficult of all the technical movements? I guess it depend on the horse, but to me it looks like the canter pirouettes are very hard to get absolutely spot on?
Grand Prix dressage
- Thread starter mickey
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TFS
Well-Known Member
depends on the horse really, every horse has their strengths and weaknesses, finn gets really tense which is reflected in the piaffe but its easier to ride him in the pirouettes
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
Def depends on the horse- warmbloods look flashy in the extensions and pick up good marks but can struggle with the collected work. Iberians are much more natural at the piaffe/passage but not so 'wow' in the extensions (generally!!)
I'd say it's easiest to throw away marks in the changes as little misses become very obvious when the horse changes late/early.
I'd say it's easiest to throw away marks in the changes as little misses become very obvious when the horse changes late/early.
mickey
Well-Known Member
Can you tell me what the judges are specifically looking for in the canter pirouettes? I guess it is taking weight back onto the hind end, keeping back legs and front legs in a rhythm, trying to stay on the spot............But I noticed last night at Olympia quite a few horses seemed to be almost jumping up at the front so it didn't look smooth?
TFS
Well-Known Member
iv always been taught the hind legs should stay on a circle the size of a dinner plate and it should appear fluid
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
Not that I've ridden Grand Prix, but I think the canter zig zag would be the hardest for me. It involves counting the strides correctly, and co-ordinating the aids for the half pass, and the flying change, then into the new half pass. Getting all that together, at the correct moment, at the right point in the arena, must be HELL.
The pirouettes and one time changes on the centre line in the Special look pretty scary too!
The pirouettes and one time changes on the centre line in the Special look pretty scary too!
mat
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Can you tell me what the judges are specifically looking for in the canter pirouettes? I guess it is taking weight back onto the hind end, keeping back legs and front legs in a rhythm, trying to stay on the spot............But I noticed last night at Olympia quite a few horses seemed to be almost jumping up at the front so it didn't look smooth?
[/ QUOTE ]
The canter pirouette is a very difficult exercise when performed correctly.
The horse should not throw his body around, fall inward, or let his hindquarters fall to the outside, but should remain balanced.
The horse should not plant one of his hind legs and move around itas seen in the western spinbut should lift them up and place them down with each stride, maintaining the purity of the gait.
The horse should not loose the rhythm of the canter, or fall onto his forehand.
The horse should not make an oval-shaped movement with his hindquarters, but should move around a perfect circle without stepping back and each bound should be equal.
When performed at the canter, the gait actually becomes four-beat, with the inside hind leg touching the ground slightly before the outside fore leg. This is mainly because the high degree of collection causes a separation of the diagonal pair, with the forehand greatly elevated. Which is why it doesnt look smooth.
A movement I think looks difficult is one you often see Anky performing- the piaffe but turning on the spot... it must be very hard to maintain the relaxation, regularity, swing, straightness, suppleness, collection etc whilst turning on the spot!
Can you tell me what the judges are specifically looking for in the canter pirouettes? I guess it is taking weight back onto the hind end, keeping back legs and front legs in a rhythm, trying to stay on the spot............But I noticed last night at Olympia quite a few horses seemed to be almost jumping up at the front so it didn't look smooth?
[/ QUOTE ]
The canter pirouette is a very difficult exercise when performed correctly.
The horse should not throw his body around, fall inward, or let his hindquarters fall to the outside, but should remain balanced.
The horse should not plant one of his hind legs and move around itas seen in the western spinbut should lift them up and place them down with each stride, maintaining the purity of the gait.
The horse should not loose the rhythm of the canter, or fall onto his forehand.
The horse should not make an oval-shaped movement with his hindquarters, but should move around a perfect circle without stepping back and each bound should be equal.
When performed at the canter, the gait actually becomes four-beat, with the inside hind leg touching the ground slightly before the outside fore leg. This is mainly because the high degree of collection causes a separation of the diagonal pair, with the forehand greatly elevated. Which is why it doesnt look smooth.
A movement I think looks difficult is one you often see Anky performing- the piaffe but turning on the spot... it must be very hard to maintain the relaxation, regularity, swing, straightness, suppleness, collection etc whilst turning on the spot!
Partoow
Well-Known Member
Atually the piaffe pirouette is easier!! the action of rotation helps maintain the 'activity'. Some horses find one direction of rotation easier than the other, as you would expect. Actually the more difficult thing at this level is the quality of transition in to the piaffe from the passage and out again. Keeping the correct rhythm, height to the steps and fluency is the thing.
Interesting point about the canter pirouette ;it is a movement difficult to get right but funnily enough those horses with slightly weaker canters tend to find it easier in that they find the quickening of the hindleg is more natural to them. Anky i think does not ride them well and there was an exellent photo a few weeks ago now and the horse had both hind legs on the ground together. this should not be the case as the correct canter sequence should always be observed. After all they are just very small circles and if you always ride the outside shoulder around the inside leg keeping the left to right the same height then they are not that difficult to gey your head around.
As for the zig zag they are lovely to ride. The one x tempis are hard as they are asked for in a slightly different way than normal changes and there is a lot that can go wrong. Twos are my favourite they just flow and the horses love them too.
Its like anything we all have uor strengths and our weaknesses. On the whole the GrandPrix is all difficult when each movement has to be riden one after the other. The level of fitness from both the horse and the rider is huge.
Interesting point about the canter pirouette ;it is a movement difficult to get right but funnily enough those horses with slightly weaker canters tend to find it easier in that they find the quickening of the hindleg is more natural to them. Anky i think does not ride them well and there was an exellent photo a few weeks ago now and the horse had both hind legs on the ground together. this should not be the case as the correct canter sequence should always be observed. After all they are just very small circles and if you always ride the outside shoulder around the inside leg keeping the left to right the same height then they are not that difficult to gey your head around.
As for the zig zag they are lovely to ride. The one x tempis are hard as they are asked for in a slightly different way than normal changes and there is a lot that can go wrong. Twos are my favourite they just flow and the horses love them too.
Its like anything we all have uor strengths and our weaknesses. On the whole the GrandPrix is all difficult when each movement has to be riden one after the other. The level of fitness from both the horse and the rider is huge.
mat
Well-Known Member
I have watched riders asking for one time changes, a movement I havent performed yet and I couldnt get my head around the aids, it makes a bit more sense when you say they are asked for in a different way.. Looks pretty hard..
I imagine the passage piaffe passage transition gets its own mark due to the difficulty?
I imagine the passage piaffe passage transition gets its own mark due to the difficulty?
Partoow
Well-Known Member
Yes Mat there are their own marks for the transition plus a second set for the quality , if you get my meaning, you see this sometimes at the slightly lower levels too, as for the one's its one of those things if you think too hard you wont get it and be too slow as you have to ask for the next change as you are doing the preceeding one!!!
Sorry cant think of you as abominable_snowmat you'd have to be short fat and hairy for that to work!!!!
Sorry cant think of you as abominable_snowmat you'd have to be short fat and hairy for that to work!!!!
Bananaman
Well-Known Member
I would agree wholeheartedly re the canter pirouettes partoow. I have a horse with a fairly big canter but he does struggle sometimes to quicken the hindleg for the pirouette. He'd much rather jump round in three or four strides than do six or so!
I too love doing 2s, much easier than 3s or 4s but the ones......aaargh!
That's my goal for this year! Two 1s, no problem, 3 or very occassionally 4 just about OK but as we do more it all falls apart!
I think I'm too slow, old, fat, thick or all of the above!!!!!!
I too love doing 2s, much easier than 3s or 4s but the ones......aaargh!
That's my goal for this year! Two 1s, no problem, 3 or very occassionally 4 just about OK but as we do more it all falls apart!
I think I'm too slow, old, fat, thick or all of the above!!!!!!
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
Walks and halts.
If you look at scores at the top level these are often areas where competitors get lower than average marks, especially as "brilliance" becomes a bigger part of the equation. It is very hard to have a horse keyed up enough to do the advanced movements but relaxed and through enough to maintain the clarity of the walk and the relaxation and patience of the halt.
I scribed for an Advanced judge at a CDI once who gave no more than a 4 for any walk during the day, except for one FEI pony. Almost every horse was lateral and/or not showing enough stretch in the Medium frame. Even at the WEGs and the Olympics it's not at all unusual to see lateral walks and tense, fussing halts. Which is, of course, why they're in there.
(There is a movement afoot to take out the first halt, like the event tests, not just to make the tests quicker for organisers but because some riders feel it's now actually an unfair request!)
If you look at scores at the top level these are often areas where competitors get lower than average marks, especially as "brilliance" becomes a bigger part of the equation. It is very hard to have a horse keyed up enough to do the advanced movements but relaxed and through enough to maintain the clarity of the walk and the relaxation and patience of the halt.
I scribed for an Advanced judge at a CDI once who gave no more than a 4 for any walk during the day, except for one FEI pony. Almost every horse was lateral and/or not showing enough stretch in the Medium frame. Even at the WEGs and the Olympics it's not at all unusual to see lateral walks and tense, fussing halts. Which is, of course, why they're in there.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
ooh, Cruiser, that's reminded me of something... can anyone who watched Olympia tell me if Anky managed the halts? from the marks, i guess so. because i read a very interesting article somewhere about a horse which is trained to that level and winning golds, but won't even do what we'd expect a kid's pony to do... i.e. stand still. :O
Seahorse
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Not that I've ridden Grand Prix, but I think the canter zig zag would be the hardest for me. It involves counting the strides correctly, and co-ordinating the aids for the half pass, and the flying change, then into the new half pass. Getting all that together, at the correct moment, at the right point in the arena, must be HELL.
The pirouettes and one time changes on the centre line in the Special look pretty scary too!
[/ QUOTE ]
I've ridden a canter zig zag and it was incredibly difficult, not least because you can't crumple in a heap at the end like I did, you have to then do the next movement!
Not that I've ridden Grand Prix, but I think the canter zig zag would be the hardest for me. It involves counting the strides correctly, and co-ordinating the aids for the half pass, and the flying change, then into the new half pass. Getting all that together, at the correct moment, at the right point in the arena, must be HELL.
The pirouettes and one time changes on the centre line in the Special look pretty scary too!
[/ QUOTE ]
I've ridden a canter zig zag and it was incredibly difficult, not least because you can't crumple in a heap at the end like I did, you have to then do the next movement!