granulosa cell tumour? Or something else?

[Izzwall]

My mare has had hormone problems since she was very young (homebred), I had her scanned when she was 6 and found her right ovary was more enlarged than the other. Started the injection which worked initially and then stopped working. Then was put on regumate at 6ml, she's 11 now and on 12ml and that's not even working. She's mounted other mares in the past and can be aggressive to others especially when ridden. Since the start of January she's been particularly difficult and won't even tolerate her field companion in the field or when we ride out with them. We can't have any horses tied up near her now as she will go out of her way to hurt them. She's also started squealing in her stable with no horses near her either. In the past week she's started trying to attack me too, which she has never done! She's so tight in her hindquarters and I can't pick her feet up without being kicked especially her hinds. She looks 'off' behind too especially her right hind, she sometimes stands camped under with a very stiff rigid tail and looks generally miserable. She also has been struggling a bit with walking downhill. I popped her on a bute twice a day and the difference is incredible. She looks so much more happier and I can also pick up her hind feet again. She's being scanned on Monday as I think she may have a granulosa cell tumour? Can ovary issues cause a huge amount of pain and make them lame? She does also have EMS and I suspect PSSM too but I just have a feeling its ovary related. I've been told by respected opinions that they think its gut related, in particular hindgut but would bute help gut issues? As I thought it was the opposite. I think I've been so worried about her I'm just researching everything on what her issue could be! On a good day she is awesome, a very sweet little mare who will do anything and everything. I absolutely adore her. She does have her quirks and I have to be very strict with her boundaries but her aggressiveness feels a lot more than just being rude and naughty. Any suggestions would be greatly received ?

 

[doodle]

Bosses mare was very similar. She had ovaries removed as behaviour getting worse and on too high a dose of regumate. Turned out she had multiple cysts on both ovaries and ovaries were huge. Op made a huge difference to her and it wasn’t too stressful a procedure. If you do a search I replied to a similar thread last week

 

[Izzwall]

Bosses mare was very similar. She had ovaries removed as behaviour getting worse and on too high a dose of regumate. Turned out she had multiple cysts on both ovaries and ovaries were huge. Op made a huge difference to her and it wasn’t too stressful a procedure.

I'm hoping so much its ovaries as then can just get them out! She isn't insured and I would have to get a bank loan to pay for it but if it meant she was comfortable then so be it! She's only 14hh on a tall day so 12ml is a lot of regumate for a horse her size, plus I hate handling the stuff!! Do you know if she was in pain with the cysts? She is lashing out with being in pain too I think

 

[Tiddlypom]

I've been told by respected opinions that they think its gut related, in particular hindgut but would bute help gut issues?

Bute will aggravate hind gut issues. My mare became almost dangerous to handle when put on a short bute trial before her hind gut issue was diagnosed.

So your mare improving on the bute makes hind gut issues unlikely.

 

[doodle]

Yes she was definitely in pain. We kept a very detailed diary and every 3 weeks she became worse. When in season she could not bear you sitting in canter. Very grumpy over reactive mare mostly. Would try and kill the other horses. I can’t remember the amount of regumate but she was on double what she should have been. The op was expensive, from memory about £3500 but she did have minor complications so was in the hospital for 2 or 3 days longer than normal. Owner felt it was worth the money in saved regumate at the least. It made such a huge difference to her we wish we had done it sooner. She was always quirky but settled right down, we didn’t have the up and down behaviour. Before we couldn’t even attempt to go to a show/clinic when in season.

 

[Izzwall]

Bute will aggravate hind gut issues. My mare became almost dangerous to handle when put on a short bute trial before her hind gut issue was diagnosed.

So your mare improving on the bute makes hind gut issues unlikely.

That's what I thought too, I suspect she probably has gut issues due to what ever is going on with her. She responded really well to Ron fields pre ulcer powder and is on it all the time now. When she's well she's at her best on high levels of vitamin E, mag ox and the pre ulcer powder but none of that is keeping her happy at the moment.

Yes she was definitely in pain. We kept a very detailed diary and every 3 weeks she became worse. When in season she could not bear you sitting in canter. Very grumpy over reactive mare mostly. Would try and kill the other horses. I can’t remember the amount of regumate but she was on double what she should have been. The op was expensive, from memory about £3500 but she did have minor complications so was in the hospital for 2 or 3 days longer than normal. Owner felt it was worth the money in saved regumate at the least. It made such a huge difference to her we wish we had done it sooner. She was always quirky but settled right down, we didn’t have the up and down behaviour. Before we couldn’t even attempt to go to a show/clinic when in season.

That's very interesting, she's on double the amount of regumate too. Her cycles are all over the place too and we can go months with no issues then weeks of her being more difficult than normal. I've been thinking about having her ovaries out for years but due to finances and regumate was working I kept putting the thought to the back of mind. But now it's not working I'm seriously considering it. I'll find the money somehow! Did your boss's mare go lame at all? My mare isn't hoping lame but noticeable tight and not using her hindquarters properly
Ahhh I remember taking her to a flatwork clinic when she was younger (just before her first scan and before medication) and all she could focus on the entire time was who she would attack first in the group. In the end we had to stand in the corner of the school and no one was allowed near us, she was proper evil and her ears were flat back for all the session. I haven't taken her to another since! She is brilliant to hack alone unsurprisingly

 

[doodle]

No she wasn’t lame as such but very tight and tense from under the back of the saddle backwards. So she just couldn’t tolerate you sitting in the saddle cantering. She was better if you went 2 point. She would occasionally suddenly spin and dump you, particularly in trot, which looking back I think was also pain as that was much reduced after the op. She was very regular in when she was bad but it was very useful to keep quite a detailed diary as there were us 2 grooms and owner. When she was bought she was on regumate but at an “acceptable” level. Poor thing had been uncomfortable for a long time. About 18 months after op she was sold to a 13yo girl as her first horse off ponies. That would have been unthinkable before the op.

 

[doodle]

To add. The first time she went out with the other horses after her op she went to be squeely and how she had been. It was clearly a habit for her and you could see her thinking/realising she didn’t need to be like that anymore and sort of sighed and got on with things no issue.

 

[Izzwall]

Scan was fine and no sign of anything on the ovaries. But it does look season related and its causing her a lot of pain. We just don't know why, plus she shouldn't be able to season whilst on such a high regumate dosage. Vet has taken blood and I'm to do a diary of her behaviour. Typically she was really good today, soft in her eye, no tightness and is sound but I guess that proves its cycle related as she is coming out of season. Next time she's suffering the vet wants to come back out and rescan etc.
Poor girly, I almost wished she did have a cyst or a GCT because at least we could see her problem!

 

[doodle]

Exactly the same as Bo. Her scan perhaps 9 months earlier was clear. She was also getting seasons when she shouldn’t have been on the amount of regumate she was on. Boss and vet decided it was behavioural and went for ovary removal as couldn’t see what else to do. Insurance initially said they wouldn’t pay if it was behavioural. But that scan actually worked in her favour as when they went in for the op and found all the cysts the vets could say to the insurance it wasn’t pre existing and the cysts meant it wasn’t behavioural.

 

[Izzwall]

Exactly the same as Bo. Her scan perhaps 9 months earlier was clear. She was also getting seasons when she shouldn’t have been on the amount of regumate she was on. Boss and vet decided it was behavioural and went for ovary removal as couldn’t see what else to do. Insurance initially said they wouldn’t pay if it was behavioural. But that scan actually worked in her favour as when they went in for the op and found all the cysts the vets could say to the insurance it wasn’t pre existing and the cysts meant it wasn’t behavioural.

That's very interesting! Did she come off the regumate before the op? What was she like then? As I'm really worried what she's going to be like but then again it's not working anyway!
She isn't insured so I'll have to fund the op, not sure how ? but if it means there's a chance she is pain-free and normal it'll be worth it. She was so sweet today and was tied up eating her haynet quietly for two hours without any tantrums (vet was very late). That's the pony underneath that I want more of! I know she's a lovely girl but when she's angrily pawing the floor whilst destroying everything around her or trying to savage another horse or me it's frustrating on my part

 

[doodle]

From memory she stayed on it till op but I may be wrong. I think the time between “let’s do the op, she can’t get worse” to actually having it was pretty short. Boss was lucky that she has money enough to not worry even if insurance didn’t pay. I think the thought was it is x amount in regumate so that will pay for itself in y time. And even if the ovaries showed no problems then coming off the regumate was worth it. But yeh she was lucky that the cost wasn’t really a factor.

 

[throwawayaccount]

hi, didn't want to read and run

12 years ago I had a mare who would mount other mares, struggled to hold her weight etc and was very stallionish to handle. she had granulosa cell tumours- they were massive and had grown onto one of her ovaries, so she only ever had one ovary left after the op. she was 20 at the time of the op and I still got another 10 years with her.

I never put her on regumate though- I simply didn't like the sound of it. after the op, the vet advised me that if I had put her on regumate, then in my pony's case, it would have made things worse and she probably would have died.

good luck for monday xx

 

[webble]

Could they be 2 separate issues? Or being tense through hormones has caused a muscle tightness?

My old mare had the op via leahurst about 6 years ago and it was around £1200 whereas another vet wanted around £3k so if you go down that route its worth getting prices