Grass livery vs Stable and T/O WWYD type

[Horsekaren]

Can all horses adapt to living out in winter and is this actually better than being stabled?

A potential grass livery has become available with a friend ( 4 geldings T/O 24/7 365)
2 of the geldings are fairly dominant so they should keep my gelding in check.
There is a yard 200 meter down the road that hire their school and have a small stable to rent which i could possibly rent as a place to tack up, emergencies, box rest, clipping ect but it is tiny, i would say 9 by 9 so not ideal for a 15'3 cob.
The big bonuses are
- my horse would have company!! one of the horses he already knows as they have lived next to eachother in the past (at the moment he is in solitary set 15 meters back from the herd so has no interaction with horses over a fence)
- I would have a good friend at the same place
- no dust
- no £25.00 a week on bedding


My concerns
- what if he goes feral and doesnt want to leave his buddies
-what if there is a lot of snow
-what if he doesnt like living out 24/7 in winter
-what if he doesnt get along with the other ones
-dry hay in the field


At the moment he is on a mixed herd yard but in isolation due to a new very tarty mares arriving bringing out riggy behaviour in my boy. He is 15 meters away from the herd and has no interaction with the herd. The school floods and has no lights so at present he is taken out once a week and ridden / lunged once or twice a week at home. He is turned out alone from 7 - 2. There is a big turn over in horses and liveries due to the lack of facilities in winter. He can live out 24/7 in summer but i dont know how that would work in isolation.

What would you do? has anyone got good/ bad experiences of 24/7 turn out all year round?

 

[meleeka]

Is there a shelter in the field or are you able to supply one? Personally I’d go for option 1 with a shelter. I’d also have a hard standing in the field if possible then you wouldn’t have to rent the stable. It doesn’t sound like current yard has any plus points.

 

[milliepops]

you'd have to off set the cheaper livery against the cost of hiring the school etc when working out the costs.

I know people like leaving their horses out 24/7 in the summer but actually having unlimited turnout in the winter is more of a bonus to me, as that's the time when it's really hard to keep exercise routines up, due to inclement weather/poor light etc.

it could be a good option, you've been posting for a while about the unsatisfactory turnout arrangements where you are and having a back up stable down the road is a nice safety net.

As for your questions, i don't think he will go feral if you stay in a routine of bringing in, working him etc
if there is snow, my experience of grass kept horses is they adapt quite happily provided they have access to forage and shelter if they want it
many horses are quite happy to live out, again provided they have adequate food, space and shelter, Mine rarely use the actual field shelter but they are often grouped around the hedgeline if the weather is poor so you don't actually need a man made shed IMO

How big is the field that you'd be sharing? if it's a nice big field then they ought to have enough space to get on with each other and the ground should hold up well, I think those are the things that really make the difference with grass keep.

are they all hayed in the field all the time? or only in bad weather etc? do you know what the quality is like.

 

[Tiddlypom]

IMHO for grass livery there should always also be stabling ready for emergency use at a moment's notice. Fingers crossed it would not be needed, but you need to have it available without having to faff about contacting people who may not reply quickly.

 

[Horsekaren]

you'd have to off set the cheaper livery against the cost of hiring the school etc when working out the costs.



it could be a good option, you've been posting for a while about the unsatisfactory turnout arrangements where you are and having a back up stable down the road is a nice safety net.

As for your questions, i don't think he will go feral if you stay in a routine of bringing in, working him etc
if there is snow, my experience of grass kept horses is they adapt quite happily provided they have access to forage and shelter if they want it
many horses are quite happy to live out, again provided they have adequate food, space and shelter, Mine rarely use the actual field shelter but they are often grouped around the hedgeline if the weather is poor so you don't actually need a man made shed IMO

How big is the field that you'd be sharing? if it's a nice big field then they ought to have enough space to get on with each other and the ground should hold up well, I think those are the things that really make the difference with grass keep.

are they all hayed in the field all the time? or only in bad weather etc? do you know what the quality is like.

The pony stable is at the yard which hire their school so if i had the stable the cost would all be the same.
The field isn't massive but it is a decent size. They are hayed all year round not just when weather is bad. One of the horses in the herd had struggled with hay last winter so the Hay is good enough as he is also quiet sensitive to it. There is a hedge line and i believe there is talk of adding a field shelter, i would be happy to contribute to this.

 

[Horsekaren]

IMHO for grass livery there should always also be stabling ready for emergency use at a moment's notice. Fingers crossed it would not be needed, but you need to have it available without having to faff about contacting people who may not reply quickly.

I think i would be well and truley part of the yard as i would take my horse to its stable once a day to be fed, groomed, ridden ect, it wouldnt be a case of jumping through hoops to get to it.

 

[DD]

GO FOR IT buy rugs if necessary and contribute to the filed shelter. horses are meant to be in a herd interact with each other. and 24/7 freedom is better than being kept like a battery hen in a small box for most of the day.

 

[SpringArising]

Definitely move.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

GO FOR IT buy rugs if necessary and contribute to the filed shelter. horses are meant to be in a herd interact with each other. and 24/7 freedom is better than being kept like a battery hen in a small box for most of the day.

Most definitely this! Especially in your circumstances, I hate individual turnout!

 

[indie1282]

Move for sure. I don't see any benefits for remaining at your current yard, I'm not against single turnout but only if the horse can interact over the fence at least. Your horse wont get feral if you make sure you bring him in regularly, if you have access to a stable you could leave him in for a few hours if he is ok.

If there is hay then I wouldn't worry about snow and I'm pretty sure you're horse will love 24/7 turnout - especially if he has friends AND hay!

At the end of the day, if you do move and it doesn't suit you then just look for something else.

 

[flying_high]

For me it would depend on how dry / well draining field is. If it is okay all winter, then I'd move.

 

[Goldenstar]

For me it would depend on how dry / well draining field is. If it is okay all winter, then I'd move.

Me too.

 

[SEL]

HK - my two lived out all year until last winter when the fields couldn't take it after the snow we had (photos popping up on my FB timeline today). They are in overnight this winter because that is yard policy but if we weren't on clay and I had enough space then they would be out.

I have good rugs and a selection of them so if anything gets soaked through then it can get changed. When they lived out neither had shelter other than very good hedges and they were fine. Much, much better than being stabled and if I could find the right place then they'd be out in a heartbeat. Better for their arthritis, waistlines, and they were generally a lot happier being able to potter with friends.

I did have access to the American barn for tying up, farrier etc though which was good.

 

[BeckyFlowers]

No reason at all why he wouldn't be ok with 24/7 turnout, provided the already mentioned shelter and access to forage. Mine lives out 24/7 365, clipped, but I am on a livery yard where I can bring him onto the yard to tie up for grooming, farrier etc, plus I have use of a good outdoor school. All of my stuff is in the barn with everyone else's, and I do have access to a stable if necessary. I consider myself very lucky. It sounds like the new place will have the facilities you can use, so I would go for it. Will you be responsible for fencing and maintenance of the paddock? For example, you will need to rest part of it for summer turnout (and then in the summer rest the winter part), so are you expected to do electric fencing etc? And poo picking, muck heap disposal, trough maintenance, boundary fence maintenance etc? If so, and you are confident and/or have reliable help with this then I can't see a reason not to go for it.

 

[Horsekaren]

I am really really thinking i am going to move him.
Would you move now or wait 2 months for Jan and Feb to be out of the way so he can hardy up a bit over summer ect. 3
My worry would be he would be out over night in the paddock next to the new herd for a week so they can meet. That is a big change from being stabled for 18 hours to being out

 

[Leo Walker]

For a horse with a dust allergy its a no brainer.

Move now. There are so many good rugs available that if hes cold you can up the rugging, but out and able to move around with access to forage, you will almost certainly find he keeps himself warmer than stood in a stable.

 

[ihatework]

As long as it’s not a boggy pit I would imagine your horse will be much happier on 24/7 turnout with a stable group of male friends, especially as your current situation isn’t really set up for you to be able to exercise sufficiently.
There are very few horses that won’t adapt to this lifestyle and even fewer cobs.

 

[SpringArising]

Isn't your horse a Cob OP? Not that other breeds wouldn't be fine living out, but I think you're being way too soft worrying about whether or not being going to need to harden up!

 

[ImmyS]

If your biggest worry is about him not adapting I really wouldn’t worry! I bought my horse early March this year just before the horrific weather, beast from the east. He had previously been fully clipped out and was stabled over night when I got him. He went straight out 24/7 in a non sheltered field with ad-lib hay and a light weight rug and he was toasty warm and happy as Larry. He’s a 15hh cob.

 

[ester]

If he does struggle with the hay would there be an option to switch to haylage?

 

[Horsekaren]

i know im soft but we always joke that he is a sensitive soul and gets upset easily. im worried about wet scabby feathers giving him sore legs, poor hooves ( he didnt do well on the hard ground this summer). He would be on dry hay which i have removed completely and he has improved immensely, i wouldn't be able to soak hay or put haylage in his field but then i guess dust spores would be in fresh air so not as bad. He wasn't nice to most of the geldings in the herd (all the ones below him) but i guess this was probably due to the mares. He has always been a loaner, choosing to be alone in a herd is one thing but being forced to be alone is another.

He always wants to come in but i think that is for food not to stand in a box. His routine would be a bit of a mess until the nights are longer so i can bring him in to ride before/after work. There is a paddock next to his field they use to ride in so i can give him a 15 min lunge ect during the week when the days are really short.

He has so many rugs which i dont get to use so thats not an issue.

I guess change is just scary, at the end of the day i just want him to be happy and i know this isnt the point of it all but when he does have his demon days it takes a lot of the pressure away as he wont need to be in by a certain time ect

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I am really really thinking i am going to move him.
Would you move now or wait 2 months for Jan and Feb to be out of the way so he can hardy up a bit over summer ect. 3
My worry would be he would be out over night in the paddock next to the new herd for a week so they can meet. That is a big change from being stabled for 18 hours to being out

Personally I'd move sooner rather than later so he could drop off a bit before the spring grass comes through.

 

[Highflinger]

I had kept mine on a diy yard with stabling at night for 20 years. Took the leap to 24/7 turnout 365 and no stables 15 years ago - best decision ever! I did put up a field shelter after year 1 - they never use it in winter but all the time in summer.
Yes after days of rain in winter it is a bit grim for me but horses are happy regardless of weather as long as they have their mates and something to eat. My COPD fella is so much heathier and is fine on good quality unsoaked hay living out - could not tolerate soaked hay when in at night. Snow is not a problem - just give more hay.
Couple of good rugs in different weights, head torch and decent wellies are essential.

 

[Bojingles]

i know im soft but we always joke that he is a sensitive soul and gets upset easily. im worried about wet scabby feathers giving him sore legs, poor hooves ( he didnt do well on the hard ground this summer). He would be on dry hay which i have removed completely and he has improved immensely, i wouldn't be able to soak hay or put haylage in his field but then i guess dust spores would be in fresh air so not as bad. He wasn't nice to most of the geldings in the herd (all the ones below him) but i guess this was probably due to the mares. He has always been a loaner, choosing to be alone in a herd is one thing but being forced to be alone is another.

He always wants to come in but i think that is for food not to stand in a box. His routine would be a bit of a mess until the nights are longer so i can bring him in to ride before/after work. There is a paddock next to his field they use to ride in so i can give him a 15 min lunge ect during the week when the days are really short.

He has so many rugs which i dont get to use so thats not an issue.

I guess change is just scary, at the end of the day i just want him to be happy and i know this isnt the point of it all but when he does have his demon days it takes a lot of the pressure away as he wont need to be in by a certain time ect

I would move him ASAP. From what I've read from your other posts, it would be a much happier life for him than the one he currently has. Don't worry about the move; he may or may not be unsettled for a couple of days but once he gets to know the herd and his place in the hierarchy is established, I bet he'll be fine . If you're worried about scabby legs get some pig oil and sulphur to repel the mud and for the feet, get Red Horse field paste. Once a week, bring him in and thoroughly clean his feet. Puff some talc in to dry them a little and then cover in field paste, particularly in the nooks and crannies.

I've just done exactly the same with my mare and although she shouted for her old field mate the first day, she's happy as Larry now and much, much, happier than she would be standing in a stable for 18 hours a day. She's got plenty of grass and excellent natural shelter. Does the new yard have natural shelter (hedging/trees around the edge of the field)?

I think you should go for it! Good luck x

 

[9tails]

I think he's a sensitive soul because you're a sensitive soul. I'd definitely move him, your current arrangement sounds horrendous, possibly with a fair few people with strong personalities that have got their own way. You'll never be happy there.

 

[laura_nash]

I am really really thinking i am going to move him.
Would you move now or wait 2 months for Jan and Feb to be out of the way so he can hardy up a bit over summer ect. 3
My worry would be he would be out over night in the paddock next to the new herd for a week so they can meet. That is a big change from being stabled for 18 hours to being out

As the owner of a cob who lives out fully now, partly due to a bad dust allergy, I would say move him now. He'll be much happier and healthier living out over winter. IME the problems start in spring (waistline control) and summer (flies!) so better to get him used to the herd and settled before then. Your current yard sounds so bad, if this place doesn't work out for any reason it'll probably still be an improvement and you can look again next summer.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I originally thought that turning out 24/7 would be your best answer - I have turned a large variety of breeds out 24/7 for many years and not lost one yet to the cold or wet, they have all thrived both mentally and physically all year round.

However, since reading further that you have a horse with COPD (?) and hay feeding will be same hay for all field users, I would be very wary. I had a horse with COPD and kept her out all year too....but even feeding her the very best hay (our own so I knew full details of growth and harvest) her COPD got far worse, so don;t rely on outdoor feeding solving the issue - very often it doesn't . Eventually I had to give her a smaller paddock within the big winter field and feed her haylage. Would this be possible if feeding dry hay upsets your horse?

 

[starfish8]

I think a lot of us get caught up with problems that might occur rather than thinking of the problems that are already clearly there. I'm another who would move.

 

[laura_nash]

I originally thought that turning out 24/7 would be your best answer - I have turned a large variety of breeds out 24/7 for many years and not lost one yet to the cold or wet, they have all thrived both mentally and physically all year round.

However, since reading further that you have a horse with COPD (?) and hay feeding will be same hay for all field users, I would be very wary. I had a horse with COPD and kept her out all year too....but even feeding her the very best hay (our own so I knew full details of growth and harvest) her COPD got far worse, so don;t rely on outdoor feeding solving the issue - very often it doesn't .

That is a good point, I think it might depend on how the hay is being fed. If they are feeding it loose on the ground in piles, that would be a concern. Mine has a very bad dust allergy and is fine with dry hay in the field but I feed either in trickle nets or a big bale with a bag over it - so not loose hay blowing about.

 

[southerncomfort]

This sounds like a really good option HK!