Grass Sickness or Colic - Has anyone experienced this!

[caths]

I wonder if anyone could give me so advice.

For the last couple of weeks, maybe three times I've noticed my mare start to eat her feed and then stop suddenly almost like we would if we ate something really hot or cold, she works away with her mouth, tongue and lips like they do if there is a strange smell or taste but she looks really uncomfortable. she groans and sticks her neck right out and then stands with her head down and goes away from her food and stands at the fence beside the mare in the next paddock just with her head down and licking her lips. Yesterday she seemed a bit collicy, biting her sides and lying down and the vet came but he wasn't convinced that was what it was.
She was better by evening and we gave her some hay as the vet suggested and she was much brighter yesterdaymorning but last night same thing again stops suddenly half way through her feed and same behaviour except that she didn't go down and stay down. She eventually lay down and kind of rolled but much more forcefully than she usually does. She was grazing quietly when I left about 9pm. Went to see her this morning at first light and she came trotting and cantering down the field to me. She ate her feed slowly and stopped just as she'd finished the last mouthful, extended her neck and started the same thing again with her mouth before going back to the fence beside the other mare again. Would this be the symptoms a horse would show with grass sickness. I don't know but it doesnt seem like all the symptoms I have read about. Can anyone give me any help with this as you can imagine its a really awful time and our vet is still not ruling grass sickness out. If it is this can anything be done if this is early stages.

 

[samp]

To me it sounds like she may either have a problem with her teeth or some kind of blockage going on, I woould personally discuss this with your vet and ask whtehers its worth performing an examination of the mouth or a endoscope?

 

[cazza]

I am presuming she is only doing this when she is eating hard feed? If she is eating normally on the grass and hay and not showing these symptoms then to me it points to something in her feed. Does she have her feed wet? could she be having problems producing saliva which in turn are making it difficult for her to swallow? Doesn't sound like grass sickness to me as the one we had went down rapidly overnight, loss of weight etc. Sounds like she is suffering from choke which then turns into something else? but like you I don't really know. If it is mainly around her feed times then maybe look to change her feed. Or give her a really wetted down feed just to see if it makes a difference. Good luck

 

[Tempi]

what are you feeding? is the feed wet?

To me it sounds like your horse is having problems digesting and eating the feed your are giving her.

 

[Rueysmum]

My horse had a bout of mild spasmodic colic a few weeks ago which took place over a period of days.

During this time he would be attacking his haynet with gusto and then suddenly stop and go and lie down. (If he lies down then I know something is wrong).

Other symptoms he had were standing with his head on the floor and yawning etc.

I started giving him Pink Powder as he is prone to mild colic and also a tapewormer. He hasn't had a bout since, fingers crossed.

Could your horse just have low grade ongoing colic?

 

[caths]

Hi - thanks for replying. She is fed calm and condition with dengie chaff mixed in and some supplements. She's been on this for a couple of years now. When I first noticed her doing the choking thing I got the dentist to come and have a look again and she said her teeth were fine as they'd only been done a couple of months before. She didn't keep good condition at all last winter and lost a lot of weight towards the end of winter despite always having 24 hour turn out and two feeds mornng and evening and access to hay. Can anyone suggest anything better to give her to keep her in good condition. She's 13. We're waiting for the vet to come back today but so far he hasn't done much apart from injection a muscle relaxant and a pain killer two days ago but he keeps going back to grass sickness which obviously is really worrying. She doesnt appear to choke when grazing however when she drinks it looks like she has taken a lot of water and then it all comes spraying out. Looks like she is washing her mouth out as what goes in comes out a few seconds later. I've seen horses with colic but never seen anything like this before and the fact that she was bright and cantering down the field this morning is strange as well. If she was feeling ill you wouldn't think she would do that

 

[caths]

Hi - thanks for replying. She is fed calm and condition with dengie chaff mixed in and some supplements. She's been on this for a couple of years now. When I first noticed her doing the choking thing I got the dentist to come and have a look again and she said her teeth were fine as they'd only been done a couple of months before. She didn't keep good condition at all last winter and lost a lot of weight towards the end of winter despite always having 24 hour turn out and two feeds mornng and evening and access to hay. Can anyone suggest anything better to give her to keep her in good condition. She's 13. We're waiting for the vet to come back today but so far he hasn't done much apart from injection a muscle relaxant and a pain killer two days ago but he keeps going back to grass sickness which obviously is really worrying. She doesnt appear to choke when grazing however when she drinks it looks like she has taken a lot of water and then it all comes spraying out. Looks like she is washing her mouth out as what goes in comes out a few seconds later. I've seen horses with colic but never seen anything like this before and the fact that she was bright and cantering down the field this morning is strange as well. If she was feeling ill you wouldn't think she would do that

 

[GreedyGuts]

How old is your mare? Grass sickness is only really seen in young horses.
I would ask your vet to do an oral examination and perform endoscopy of her larynx, pharynx, guttural pouches and oesophagus - abnormalities may be identified in these areas which could cause problems on eating/swallowing. I'd also get her stomach scoped as gastric ulceration could produce symptoms a bit like this.
Chronic cases of grass sickness do occur, usually in th North of England/Scotland. Grass sickness results from damage to the nerves supplying the gastrointestinal tract, which affects the passage of feed through the guts. In chronic cases you usually see reduced faecal output, and hard black faeces. The oesophagus becomes paralysed and this results in difficulty eating and often a crust of food matter forms around the nostrils. These symptoms progress rapidly and are accompanied by dramatic weightloss.

I can imagine how worrying this is, but I agree that the symptoms you describe don't entirely fit with grass sickness, and I think that other things are more likely to be the cause. I would get your vet to investigate further for your own peace of mind. Feeding her a really sloppy feed and seeing if that makes a difference is worth trying.

Best of luck with her.

 

[caths]

Hi, My mare is 13 and I've had her for almost 3 years. She has had colic twice in that time and I've had our vet down and she was fine within a couple of hours. Our new vet doesn't seem to be able to offer anything more. He has said today to keep an eye on her as he is still favouring grass sickness because of the reflex in her good eye (she is blind in one eye). He says she looked very dopey when he saw her two days ago. I've been feeding her a global herbs product called Supercalm for the last couple of months and wondered if that could account for her dopey look but the vet thought not. That is the only change to her diet. Could it be that the grass has had a bit of a growth spurt and its maybe a bad colic bout. He has left things as if she gets worse to call him but that he has nothing to offer her meantime. I feel that this surely can't be the way it has to be, I would have thought she could be given a thorough examination to see exactly what is going on.

 

[Pidge]

GS can affect horses of any age not just young horses, I lost mine to this over 2 years ago and he was coming up for 9. It also happens all over England.
The only way to confirm definate GS is to take a biopsy of the gut wall. If your vet thinks it may be GS then push him to refer this on to one of the specialist vet places such as Leahurst or Edinburgh.
I really do hope its not GS though.

 

[caths]

Hi - we are in Edin and our vet has said nothing more he can do and if she gets worse to call him and he could maybe take blood. Surelythere must be better advice than this. He thinks becaese of her eye reaction when he saw her two days ago that she looked dopey and that concerned him. I've been feeding her stress free from global herbs for the last two months but he doesn't think that could account for her dopeyness. Thats the only change she has had to her diet. She cantered down her field to me this morning so I wouldn't call that dopey. Not sure what to do now

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Cath - it sounds to me as if you need to get to the bottom of this and the only way you're going to do that is through a referral to the best equine hospital around. Id your mare insured? I'd talk it over with them and then get that referral. Better to be safe than sorry I always think. Good luck.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Cath - it sounds to me as if you need to get to the bottom of this and the only way you're going to do that is through a referral to the best equine hospital around. Is your mare insured? I'd talk it over with them and then get that referral. Better to be safe than sorry I always think. Good luck.

 

[GreedyGuts]

GS is uncommon in horses over 10, and the chronic form is seen in the North and although the disease occurs all over the UK there are specific hot spots.

The phenylephrine response test can be used to establish whether drooping eyes may be due to GS. I agree with other posters - if your vet feels he has nothing more to offer then he should suggest referral. Edinburgh has considerable expertise in dealing with cases of chronic GS, and should be able to help you get to the bottom of this.

 

[samp]

Not being rude, but is you r vet an equine specialist? If not then I would ask for a referral to an equine vet. Like I said and someone else your vet should be able to scope to see if there are any blockages. Has your vet passed a naso-gastric tube or performed a rectal?

 

[aran]

'noticed my mare start to eat her feed and then stop suddenly almost like we would if we ate something really hot or cold, she works away with her mouth, tongue and lips like they do if there is a strange smell or taste but she looks really uncomfortable. she groans and sticks her neck right out and then stands with her head down and goes away from her food and stands at the fence beside the mare in the next paddock just with her head down and licking her lips'

That sounds like choke. She may have choked but got something which she can't clear or during the choke made her self sore which keeps triggering further attacks (just like if you choke you can feel sore for some time).

 

[colmio]

Hi, I am wondering if you have considered stomach ulcers. I have recently seen a few horses behaving in a similar fashion and this has been the cause. I have been told that it is to do with the increased production of acid in the stomach in anticipation of the feed. One young tb had to go and have frequent lie downs until his carers worked out what was going on. Good luck getting to the botom of it.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
That sounds like choke. She may have choked but got something which she can't clear or during the choke made her self sore which keeps triggering further attacks (just like if you choke you can feel sore for some time).


[/ QUOTE ]
I absolutely agree that this sounds like choke - how odd that the vet should be so dismissive. Presumabely not an equine one.

Either way - get a new vet and ask them to investigate why this is happening. It may be something as simple as the horse needing its teeth done........

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Are you wetting the Calm&Cond? Not everybody realises that it should be well wetted as it swells on contact with water/saliva. Could it be too dry and swelling in her throat and stomach? Someone at my yard had this problem with their horse!

 

[amandathepanda]

I've seen a lot of both colic & grass sickness cases as I used to nurse at an equine practise. What you have described really doesn't sound like a typcial GS case in my experience. For starters, once they get GS you really know about it, it isn't something that lingers. Usually in a typical case of GS the horse would be dead after this amount of time. You mentioned the vet thinks GS due to looking dopey & her reflex isn't right in her eye - well things besides grass sickness can also change the horses eye reflex so I would diagnose GS purely on this sympton. As others have mentioned, a typical horse with GS will be a young horse & you do tend to get a large number of cases in a close area. Older horses can get it but it is much less frequent.

Colic can come & go, especially if it is spasmodic but the thing that concerns me about this diagnosis is that you say she appears to spit hard feed out & also water. A colic case will pick at food but you rarely see them spit food out like that. Is your horse peeing & pooing as normal? A horse with colic won't be doing what it normally does with it bodily functions.

If it was my horse, I would be seeking a second opinion from an equine vet. You need an endoscopy done asap as that will help with a proper diagnosis. A decent vet will also run a full set of bloods, do a rectal & a peritonel tap. This has been going on for two weeks now, it is unacceptable for the vet to keep fobbing you off with 'I don't know' or 'It could be but I'm not sure'.

Try cutting the calm & condition right out. Feed fibre based feeds - Fibre P or an alf alfa product would make sense if your horse can eat hay normally. Cut out everything your horse is reacting to & start from scratch. Maybe try a bran mash for a few days to get everything moving. When you get the all clear from an equine vet start builing up gradually to a more noraml diet. Yeasac is a good probiotic and can help, also when I worked at the vets we would use psyhillium on colic cases as it keeps the gut working.

Good luck!

 

[Donkeymad]

Having lost an 11 year old mare to GS and having two friends whose horses have suffered from Chronic GS (so are still alive and doing well) this really doesn't sound like GS to me. Hope you can sort it out soon.

 

[Llwyncwn]

Hi Catherine. Only just read your post but I hope by now you have found a good vet to help you!

Lots and lots of good advice here on this thread and obviously, if you have ruled out choke (and doesnt sound like GS to me for one minute) her symptoms are exactly like those my mare had a number of years ago when she had a perforated ulcer, which in turn caused peritonitis. Fortunately for me, she recovered, but at that time very little was known about ulcers.

I am not a vet and am only offering you advice on what steps I took, so you must always refer to a darned good vet.

I phoned Spillers who were so very helpful. I took my mare off hard feed completely which was the reason she was colicking and gave her only best quality hay, Hi Fi, a little sugar beet and up to half a pint of oil a day. Even though she resembled a hat rack at the time and the vet was telling me to get as much hard feed into her as I could! The health food shop also helped me and we started her on Cava Cava, Valarian and Slippery Elm. At the time she was on 80 Cemetidine tablets per day, 1ltr Gaviscon, pro and antibios. The only way to tell if an ulcer is perforated is by a peritoneal tap which is a syringe into the under-belly to draw off fluids which have seeped from the gut.

Hope this essay has given you food for thought. If you want any more help, feel free to PM me, or Druid who also has lots of experience with ulcers.

Please keep us informed. Fingers and toes crossed for you.

 

[caths]

Hi
Thanks so much for all your advice. Really not happy with the locum vet who is supposed to be a horse specialist and tried to get her seen at a specialist equine clinic but they wouldn't see her as she was a patient of another vet.....you know the old story!!!!! My father is going to register her at the clinic under his own name as this has been going on too long and to hell with their ethics of not pinching another vets patient. My horse needs more than just a blank look and a scratch of the head and nothing more. Rant over

On a brighter note, I cut down the calm and condition, mixed it with some ride and relax and applechaff, some pink powder and her usual glucosamine and MSM and she seems much easier. Hasn't had probs swallowing now for two days and is grazing contentedly. I have given her a bag of haylage morning and evening as well and she is coping with this. She is improving but still is not back to her normal self. She is a monkey for hauling up whole thistle plants and swallowing the whole thing and the thought that is keeping me from dwelling on the grass sickness is that she could have damaged her gullet doing this. However hopefully she will be re- registered with the specialists today and an appt booked for tomorrow morning so at least something is being doine for her.

 

[caths]

Just got blood results back from vet after calling him twice yesterday. He left a message on my phone to say that - all normal apart from low white cell count. He hasn't indicatged any reason for this and if there is any treatment.

She really enjoyed her feed this morning, took her time and then went off to her haylage net. She was a bit frothy last night when eating her nightime net but not sure if this is significant as she didn't seem to be having any problems eating or swallowing.

 

[caths]

Hi

Got blood results back after several calls and apparently they are all normal apart from low white cell count. Can I do much to get this back to normal. Vet left a message on my mobile but haven't been able to get him to call back yet. If she had a perforated ulcer would the previous symptoms and the low white cell count be symptomatic of this