Grazing muzzle that doesn't rub??

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Dizzle

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Small Pony has had her grazing muzzle on for 24 hours, despite the fact that last year I added a layer of fleece around the top of the 'bucket' part it has already rubbed the hair off in several places, she's clearly got a 'technique' that involves putting her nose on the ground and rolling it about so she gets as much grass through the hole as possible.

Her current one is like this:
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I'm planning on starting off with it on for 24 hours and slowly increasing it so she is out 24/7 for three days muzzled and four not so I really need one that isn't going to give her sore patches.

Has anyone found a 'foolproof' muzzle?
 
I'll be interested in any replies too. Currently have a kadence muzzle for my section a and has rubbed several patches on her :(
I also use on one my tb and she gets rubs too but not quite as bad.
I've seen the sheepskin lined ones - but not sure if they'd be too hot and claustrophobic in the hot weather or a bit miserable if it rains and they get wet.
 
I'm getting a sheepskin lined one but I've been told you should never leave it on 24x7 . I'm going to try pen in the daytime no muzzle and then give her more freedom back in the large paddock overnight muzzled. If that doesn't work she'll be stabled by day, again so that she's not in her muzzle around the clock.
 
I have a the new shires deluze one - the cob size gives plenty of room and is cut back under the chin as well as sheepskin lined and it hasn't rubbed Frank at all (shires get full points for being aware of the issues and improving on them imo). - and he is a ginger prone to rubbing- also well priced imo.
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I also have a dinky that didn't rub but he was quite apt at chewing through the bottom.
 
forage intake mostly, the shires one has reported 75-80% less intake iirc which just wouldn't really be enough to keep gut functioning well.
 
They are too small, the bucket shouldnt be so close fitting around the mouth and make sure the hole lies under the mouth if it is too high up on the front part of the mouth the horse will have to keep pushing it back to be able to get some grass through the hole which will cause constant rubbing
 
Ester, that's a similar hole to the one she currently wears and last summer she was wearing it 24/7 without dropping dead she's got a very good technique but it kept her weight spot on, current plan, or the plan for the past two weekends, has been to put it on on Saturday and remove on Sunday as I only visit the yard once a day. That limits her intake a bit and starting a couple of months earlier than I did last summer will hopefully counteract the lack of exercise.
 
I think they all rub to some degree to start off with if you leave them on long enough.

Things I have found that help whilst the skin hardens/muzzle soften. Buying different designs so you can rotate them so the rubbed areas get time to heal - they don't tend to rub in the same area. Also I put cream in the muzzle which seems to soften the muzzle and also helps the skin heal.

My pony lived out in his muzzle for 7 months last year due to there being loads of grass I know they are not designed to be left on 24/7 but he was very good at getting grass through the muzzle and over time the hole got bigger.

I found the new style shire did not stay on well though.

Muzzle I have at the moment - old style shires {this is the best in terms of rubbing the least and staying on shame they don't make them any more as it is almost worn out}

Best friend have a heart grazing muzzle with expandable nose - this is quite good does not stay on as well as old style shires but that might be because I have not got the fit quite right or tight enough - expandable nose means less rubbing.

KM elite grazing muzzle - not tried this yet but is meant to be softer compared to the others.
 
STRIKER said:
They are too small, the bucket shouldnt be so close fitting around the mouth and make sure the hole lies under the mouth if it is too high up on the front part of the mouth the horse will have to keep pushing it back to be able to get some grass through the hole which will cause constant rubbing
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The Shires one? I think it's the technique that is causing the issues. Which would you recommend instead?
 
ester said:
forage intake mostly, the shires one has reported 75-80% less intake iirc which just wouldn't really be enough to keep gut functioning well.
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Thanks.

On the other hand isn't there reportedly gorging when it's taken off? Is there a recommended maximum time for it to be kept on?

Trying to keep a good doer that can't be stabled (well she can, but cribs and gets stressed) and doesn't like being on her own in the lami paddock, but don't want her to get lami. It's a task and a half!
 
I have always left them on 24/7. Guts function fine, and they definitely do NOT reduce grass intake by 75% - more like 50%. They simply stop them getting much fatter! Buy a size larger than you'd think - so I get cob size for 13.2hh and horse size for anything over 14hh. Then pad the top bit or add fleece to it. Problem solved. I find the new shires ones without the fleece rub in interesting places so use HKM ones now.
 
I think this may depend on how good your horse is at getting grass and how much grass you have - 70% of loads of grass is still a lot of grass! I found my pony did not loose weight when wearing his muzzle all the time he just did not get fatter. We have a lot of grass and I do bring him in for riding every day so he has time without his muzzle and also he has a balancer. He does also have about 1/2 kilo of soaked hay but there have been times when we have had so much grass he was putting on weight even with his muzzle and not hungry so was not having the hay.

ester said:
forage intake mostly, the shires one has reported 75-80% less intake iirc which just wouldn't really be enough to keep gut functioning well.
Click to expand...
 
I do believe if the hole is not right in front of the mouth the hore has to keep moving the muzzle back and forth to be able to get grass, put it on and look at the bucket from underneath and see where the hole fits, if it is slightly forward of the top lip then make the hole a bit bigger towards the back of the lip, i use shires and i have got a size bigger so there is space around the bucket and i have found no rubbing on two of mine who wear them, i also dont have them so tight they sit on the horses mouth i have fitted them to 1inch below the mouth so again not so tight around the jaw line. The horse takes up the space when they are feeding
 
I was quoting the papers whose references came with the muzzle, obviously it is different for all ponies. I am not against leaving them on 24/7 just explaining the reasons not to as someone asked. Like all things it is sometimes better of 2 evils.

Fwiw I avoid the gorging as Frank comes in during the day to ad lib hay (and has never had lami).

Dizzle my new shires one is definitely not as close fitting as those in your photos I could proabably fit 3 fingers sideways round the back of it.
agree striker - dinky gave more precise fitting instructions but yes Franks hangs a half inch/inch lower than his muzzle that he then takes up when grazing
 
ester said:
I have a the new shires deluze one - the cob size gives plenty of room and is cut back under the chin as well as sheepskin lined and it hasn't rubbed Frank at all (shires get full points for being aware of the issues and improving on them imo). - and he is a ginger prone to rubbing- also well priced imo.
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I also have a dinky that didn't rub but he was quite apt at chewing through the bottom.
Click to expand...

This is the one I want, what size bridle do you usually use, also cob? Not sure what size to get. I find cob head collars too small sometimes but equally don't want a muzzle that's nit snug.
 
I found that a Shires one, like the one in the pics, was fine for my boy (on 24/7). For the first few weeks of him wearing it I just checked twice a day for any areas that looked like they were starting to rub/had rubbed and smothered in Vaseline. After about 10 days there was no need to Vaseline and all fine from then on.
 
ester said:
I have a the new shires deluze one - the cob size gives plenty of room and is cut back under the chin as well as sheepskin lined and it hasn't rubbed Frank at all (shires get full points for being aware of the issues and improving on them imo). - and he is a ginger prone to rubbing- also well priced imo.
fixedHeight.aspx


I also have a dinky that didn't rub but he was quite apt at chewing through the bottom.
Click to expand...

I've got the Shire's deluxe which is the best I've had although it still rubs
 
I'm pretty sure we already have a cob as I inherited it off someone that had sold their 14.2 cob, my mare is a 13.2 New Forest with no a particularly big head, I wonder if she might be a horse size with the padding though???

Has anyone tried the greenguard style?
 
The sizing is quite difficult as the different styles suit different head shapes and some are more generous than others.

In the old style shires my pony has a full size the new style shires are more roomy and full size was huge so I gave that one to a friend I also thought the amount of fleece on it would make him rather hot in the summer.

In the best friend I bought the full size as thought it would be similar to shires and it was huge so he has a cob size in best friend but as the nose is expandable that worked well.

It is difficult as if the horse is in it stable it is standing in active and might get bored with nothing to eat, if you give them ad lib hay even soaked it can still lead to weight gain.

I was going to do 6 day on a week 1 day off but then decided that it was not just his weight I was worried about the amount of sugar in the grass too so on all the time I am afraid.

I forgot to say if it helps with sizing my pony is a new forest and 13.3 h. He has quite a big head.
 
cob, cob sized bridle Just don't throw away the plastic keepers on it, I did and had to replace them with rubber bands!

was in a large dinky I think

am trying to find the research links that were a 70% reduction (so 30% of usual intake - but we all know how much their usual can be!)

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We have 3 greeguards on my yard, even with added fleece they have all rubbed and been worn much less than Franks. (I think that the added fleece has been taken account of with the sizing)

I find that for the most part the fleece is so off the face warmth wouldn't be an issue, it is also usually night though.
 
for anyone interested

New research1, presented at the Equine Science Society Symposium in Nashshville, USA last month, shows that using a grazing muzzle can reduce the pasture intake of ponies by over 80%.
Horses, and especially ponies, given free access to grass appear to be more susceptible to obesity and related disorders, such as insulin resistance and laminitis, than those with restricted access to grass. However, even reducing time at pasture may not be as effective as previously thought. Another study, also presented at the meeting, has shown that ponies may adapt their grazing behaviour to eat more in a short time span2. The new research shows that the use of a grazing muzzle could be a much more effective and reliable solution if used appropriately.
Grazing muzzles significantly reduce bite size and intake. Anecdotally, ponies fitted with grazing muzzles spend a greater proportion of time engaging in foraging and eating directed behaviours than their non-muzzled counterparts, yet either lose weight or retain an established, trim body condition.
The study, which was conducted by the WALTHAM® Equine Studies Group in collaboration with Dr Annette Longland of Equine Livestock and Nutrition Services in Wales, aimed to quantify the effect of wearing a grazing muzzle on herbage intake by ponies.
Four mature ponies were recruited for the study. After an adaptation period, their pasture intakes were determined when wearing a grazing muzzle and when grazing without a muzzle. Pasture samples were obtained daily to assess the grazing available. Insensible weight loss (ISWL) was determined for each pony immediately preceding and immediately following each three hour grazing period. Intakes were determined by changes in body weight (after taking into account the weight of any faeces and urine produced plus the estimated ISWL) after the three hours of grazing, using a calibrated weighbridge.
Pasture intake by the ponies grazing for three hours without muzzles averaged 0.8% (with some eating close to 1%) of their bodyweight, which is the equivalent of up to two thirds of the recommended daily dry matter intake for many ponies on restricted diets. Owners therefore may under-estimate pasture intakes of un-muzzled ponies, even when they are provided with restricted time at pasture. In contrast, the pasture intake of the ponies when wearing muzzles was around 0.14% of bodyweight over three hours, representing an average reduction of 83% compared to when they were not wearing muzzles.
Clare Barfoot RNutr and the research and development manager at SPILLERS said: "These figures clearly show how effective grazing muzzles appear to be as a method to restrict pasture intake. The study has given us helpful, practical guidance on how we can safely manage grass intake to control weight gain and reduce the risk of obesity-related disorders, without significantly compromising the natural behaviour and wellbeing of our horses and ponies."
Grazing muzzles must be used with care, should be properly fitted and horses and ponies should be adapted gradually to wearing them. Group and individual behaviour should be monitored closely to observe any potential concerns caused by changes to the herd dynamics. Total exclusion muzzles are not advised.
1 A Longland, ELNS, Pantafallen Fach, Tregaron, SY25 6NG, P Harris, WALTHAM Centre For Pet Nutrition, C Barfoot, Mars Horsecare UK Ltd, Old Wolverton, Buckinghamshire UK. (2011) The effect of wearing a grazing muzzle vs not wearing a grazing muzzle on pasture dry matter intake by ponies. J Equine Veterinary Science 31: 282-283
2J. Ince, Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences (IBERS). Aberystwyth University; A. Longland, ELNS, Pantafallen Fach, Tregaron, SY25 6NG C. J. Newbold, Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences (IBERS). Aberystwyth University & P. Harris, WALTHAM Centre For Pet Nutrition.(2011) Changes in proportions of dry matter intakes by ponies with access to pasture and haylage for 3 and 20 hours per day respectively for six weeks. J Equine Veterinary Science 31: 283
 
I read somewhere that a horse or pony can easily eat 1 kilo of grass on good grazing per hour.

So if my pony ate for 18 hours out of 24 and I expect he would be eating for longer than that as he loves eating then he could eat 18 kilos. He should weigh about 380-400 kilos so should not be eating more than 2% of body weight so 8 kilos max or 6 kilos for weight loss.

So if muzzle reduces grass intake by 70% he would still be getting 5.4 kilos of grass and that is a conservative amount based on him not eating for 6 hours a day and not being so good at using the muzzle. If he is adept at using the muzzle and it only reduces by 50% he would be getting 9 kilos a day which would still lead to weight gain!
 
I use the greenguard one.

I found the first few days I needed to tweak the straps to get it just right so it didn't touch him at all most of the time. Once I've got it right I make sure it doesn't get adjusted.

Where it did rub at first was on the point of chin which I solved by putting a tiny bit of sheepskin there.

I've just starting using it as they moved to fields with lots of grass ( think knee length) , bay tb 1.0 has one and bay tb 2.0 doesn't know it yet but has one on order. They go out overnight and come in during the day to hay. For them it's less about weight but they are barefoot and I've found a muzzle is the difference between stomping over everything and picking their way over stones.

ETA they are both thin skinned and sensitive and bay tb 1.0 prone to skin problems so needed something to be as airy and cool as possible. His allergies are made worse by overheating.
 
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Dengie also did a study on the best friend grazing muzzle - similar to shires - it is important to note that and I have found this to be true that horses adapt to the muzzle and can eat more as time goes on so at first you get weight loss and then you might just get maintenance, also as the muzzles wear the holes get bigger too.

"Dengie, performed a scientific study to see how much our grazing muzzle restricted their horses’ intake. The study showed a 75% to 86% reduction of intake. Keep in mind that this was a short term study and the horses hadn’t worn muzzles before. The longer a horse wears a muzzle the better he/she gets at working it and she/he will get more grass"



ester said:
for anyone interested

New research1, presented at the Equine Science Society Symposium in Nashshville, USA last month, shows that using a grazing muzzle can reduce the pasture intake of ponies by over 80%.
Horses, and especially ponies, given free access to grass appear to be more susceptible to obesity and related disorders, such as insulin resistance and laminitis, than those with restricted access to grass. However, even reducing time at pasture may not be as effective as previously thought. Another study, also presented at the meeting, has shown that ponies may adapt their grazing behaviour to eat more in a short time span2. The new research shows that the use of a grazing muzzle could be a much more effective and reliable solution if used appropriately.
Grazing muzzles significantly reduce bite size and intake. Anecdotally, ponies fitted with grazing muzzles spend a greater proportion of time engaging in foraging and eating directed behaviours than their non-muzzled counterparts, yet either lose weight or retain an established, trim body condition.
The study, which was conducted by the WALTHAM® Equine Studies Group in collaboration with Dr Annette Longland of Equine Livestock and Nutrition Services in Wales, aimed to quantify the effect of wearing a grazing muzzle on herbage intake by ponies.
Four mature ponies were recruited for the study. After an adaptation period, their pasture intakes were determined when wearing a grazing muzzle and when grazing without a muzzle. Pasture samples were obtained daily to assess the grazing available. Insensible weight loss (ISWL) was determined for each pony immediately preceding and immediately following each three hour grazing period. Intakes were determined by changes in body weight (after taking into account the weight of any faeces and urine produced plus the estimated ISWL) after the three hours of grazing, using a calibrated weighbridge.
Pasture intake by the ponies grazing for three hours without muzzles averaged 0.8% (with some eating close to 1%) of their bodyweight, which is the equivalent of up to two thirds of the recommended daily dry matter intake for many ponies on restricted diets. Owners therefore may under-estimate pasture intakes of un-muzzled ponies, even when they are provided with restricted time at pasture. In contrast, the pasture intake of the ponies when wearing muzzles was around 0.14% of bodyweight over three hours, representing an average reduction of 83% compared to when they were not wearing muzzles.
Clare Barfoot RNutr and the research and development manager at SPILLERS said: "These figures clearly show how effective grazing muzzles appear to be as a method to restrict pasture intake. The study has given us helpful, practical guidance on how we can safely manage grass intake to control weight gain and reduce the risk of obesity-related disorders, without significantly compromising the natural behaviour and wellbeing of our horses and ponies."
Grazing muzzles must be used with care, should be properly fitted and horses and ponies should be adapted gradually to wearing them. Group and individual behaviour should be monitored closely to observe any potential concerns caused by changes to the herd dynamics. Total exclusion muzzles are not advised.
1 A Longland, ELNS, Pantafallen Fach, Tregaron, SY25 6NG, P Harris, WALTHAM Centre For Pet Nutrition, C Barfoot, Mars Horsecare UK Ltd, Old Wolverton, Buckinghamshire UK. (2011) The effect of wearing a grazing muzzle vs not wearing a grazing muzzle on pasture dry matter intake by ponies. J Equine Veterinary Science 31: 282-283
2J. Ince, Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences (IBERS). Aberystwyth University; A. Longland, ELNS, Pantafallen Fach, Tregaron, SY25 6NG C. J. Newbold, Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences (IBERS). Aberystwyth University & P. Harris, WALTHAM Centre For Pet Nutrition.(2011) Changes in proportions of dry matter intakes by ponies with access to pasture and haylage for 3 and 20 hours per day respectively for six weeks. J Equine Veterinary Science 31: 283
Click to expand...
 
Yup, and they are very small sample sizes too but I think it interesting to get a rough idea without having to watch your own all the time. - although you do also get a good idea of how much is getting through then too :).
 
I have used the greenguard muzzle, it didn't rub at all and my horse seemed to get on really well with it until we noticed some significant wear to his front teeth. Not sure how how common this is tho. Any experiences?

He now wears the dinky muzzle. It's been great, no rubs and he hasn't managed to get it off!
 
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