grazing sheep with horses- thoughts/opinions please? thankyou!

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cumbriamax

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i have been told by local farmer that many horse owners land benefits from having sheep on it part of the year. I know that some of the livery yards I have been on in past have done this and I have been offered some by a friend of a friend as she has horses and also breeds sheep on her smallholding, I now have my own stables and grazing.

basically, I was wondering why do people do it?, what are pros/cons of this?
 
Really great idea - especially if you can get rotate the fields between species. If not they can graze together - but some horses will attack sheep.
 
pros - less chance of the horses getting worms (horse worms picked up by sheep don't live, sheep worms picked up by horses don't live). Sheep and horses eat different lengths of grass.

main cons - sheep have a tendency to nibble the horse's tails :eek: a way round this is to plait the tail but not useful in summer when the horse needs a free tail to swish flies ;) (but grass is more plentiful in summer so sheep less likely to nibble too).
also - if you take sheep on you'll need an iax form and have to have tagging and worming and all the rest of sheep needs attended to - their aim in life is to die in the most awkward way possible :o
 
coss said:
:D You also need fencing designed to keep the critters in, if you haven't got it already be prepared to do so, or forever be retrieving them. Sheep fencing is only good in that it gives them another method of suicide!

Pros are that they don't cut up pasture, leave cowpats for horses to roll in, and they fill up space in the freezer nicely ;)

Can't help on the form filling as our system is different, as for dipping we just bung ours in a trailer, take them back to the breeder and run them through the bath when he is doing his, they also get drenched (worms) at the same time. If your friend breeds them she will probably have the facilities and be able to offer you the same sort of help.
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I have post and rail fencing which I use in conjunction with electic fencing (basically to stop my cob smashing all the rails, which used to be his hobby) and behind that is gorse/hawthorn hedge!

am slightly worried about all this talk of sheep suicides/death:eek:what does everyone mean by this? have cleared out shed this morning.
 
regarding dipping - some farmers now opt for the "shower" rather than physically dipping. If your friend has one of those out it doesn't take long to bung the sheep in for 10mins then out and you get quite a few done at once.
I can't tell you the protocol for worming off the top of my head - been out the game too long :p and when i was helping with the sheep i was about 12 so just helped without noting how often or the stuff used. your friend should be able to advise on that - for a handful of sheep it shouldn't be too bad.
Ditto enfys on the fencing - we had lambs forcing their way through barbed wire (4inch gaps between strands from the ground to top of posts!) to get into neighbour's barley. Had to attach rilock (riloch? - the netting type ;)) by string with it folding at the bottom along the ground.
you'll also have to get their wool removed at sheering time.
 
The lady I rent my grazing from let the local farmer run his sheep on it this year and at the time I wasn't happy but got to admit I've never had so much grass.

The downside of them was they trashed about £50 electric fencing and there were more flies cause of all the poo!
 
I don't know if we just had bad luck but the ewes that we had attracted bot flies by the score. They were borrowed from a local farmer to get the grass down and were a mottley crew of old scraggy things. My highland loved to try and pick the sheep up by their fleece and would chase them if they didnt stand still when he wanted to grab them.
 
cumbriamax said:
am slightly worried about all this talk of sheep suicides/death:eek:what does everyone mean by this? have cleared out shed this morning.
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;) It isn't as bad as it sounds really, not trying to put you off at all. I think the pros do outweigh the cons.

Sheep do tend to be nosy/greedy and get caught in things, fencing, brambles, hedges - those fleeces are pesky things. As long as they are checked regularly a lot of it is mainly avoidable, it is usually the sheep running on common land that get caught up and die because no-one finds them in time.
 
we have a pond in a field - we had a black face ewe run and jump into the pond and drown.
one year, with bad snow, the herd were covered in snow - the field looked flat without any sheep in as they were all buried! - a little while after noticing (it was early morning) some heads started appearing and most of the sheep got up and carried on with "normal" sheep life... but one was more buried than the others and its legs had gone a numb with cold and sitting in one position, after holding her up for a bit she started to walk again.. she walked the diagonal of the field to the furthest point from the gate, and died.. my dad had to take a wheel barrow across the 15acre field, down a hill to get the body, in the snow, and then push back up the hill..
if there is a gap in the fence, at least one sheep WILL find a way through it and get stuck. a sheep (usually lambs) can fit their head through many gaps to eat grass on the other side of the fence, the have an inability to withdraw from the fence and often need help with a lot of panicking.
sheep are not good at jumping unless the other side of the barrier is hard to get to for humans...
i could go on - it could be the farmer's point of view :o you always remember the bad ones - keeping a few for the purposes you want will have more pros than cons :)
 
If they are a hardy breed you shouldn't have too much trouble health wise, although I think the sheep diseases book is just as thick as the horse ailments one!

Since they are an agricultural animal you should have them ear tagged, etc. Contact your local Trading Standards for the info, although people do have pet sheep and don't bother much.

Yes, horses will sometimes chase/try to pick them up by the backs. Yes sheep are born to die in as many a varied ways as possible. Although I know some pet sheep that were turned out with ponies and a donkey and they lived to their mid teens. You need a friendly farmer to help with worming, shearing, feet trimming. How much maintenance again can depend on the breed.

If you just want a lawn mower to keep the weeds down and improve the pasture they can fit in quite well. If you want to start to produce your own lambs then I suggest you get a book out of the library and find out how to do it. The alternative is to let your grazing to a sheep owner and let them worry about the husbandry.
 
i think orangehorse's comment about letting the land to a sheep owner is a good one - but i still think you will be responsible for the fencing. we let our land out to a farmer who takes hay and uses it for grazing, we made an arrangement that i can use any of the fields for the horses providing its not being grown for hay at the time.
the sheep also try to steal the horse feed from the buckets - very easily intimidated by shouting and waving arms - good for the horses to learn not to spook at such behaviour :p
 
cumbriamax said:
coss - I shouldn't have done - but i laughed raucously at your post about sheep in snow, hope you don't mind if I copy at bit and e-mail to friend. :D

I don,t want to have breeding sheep tho!:eek:

thanks ..made my day:D
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no worries re laughing :D it may have been stressful at the time in the very cold temperatures but we certainly laugh looking back on it :D and yes - pass on :):p
 
coss said:
we have a pond in a field - we had a black face ewe run and jump into the pond and drown.
one year, with bad snow, the herd were covered in snow - the field looked flat without any sheep in as they were all buried! - a little while after noticing (it was early morning) some heads started appearing and most of the sheep got up and carried on with "normal" sheep life... but one was more buried than the others and its legs had gone a numb with cold and sitting in one position, after holding her up for a bit she started to walk again.. she walked the diagonal of the field to the furthest point from the gate, and died.. my dad had to take a wheel barrow across the 15acre field, down a hill to get the body, in the snow, and then push back up the hill..
if there is a gap in the fence, at least one sheep WILL find a way through it and get stuck. a sheep (usually lambs) can fit their head through many gaps to eat grass on the other side of the fence, the have an inability to withdraw from the fence and often need help with a lot of panicking.
sheep are not good at jumping unless the other side of the barrier is hard to get to for humans...
i could go on - it could be the farmer's point of view :o you always remember the bad ones - keeping a few for the purposes you want will have more pros than cons :)
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True! Every sheep born has a pesky little inborn instinct for suicide,which they believe we are there to spoil the fun and prevent.They are esp. bad if they are WELSH,and evening for Welshies is safari time.One of mine took her two lambs off on safari at 7pm,the usual thing is to grab a lamb and make daft bleating noises so your escaped ewe will follow you home safely,after it`s beloved child.Mine just gave me a baleful stare and said ,in sheep of course "you can have that one..I`ll keep this one,and I`m off down the road to the Pub".
 
EAST KENT said:
True! Every sheep born has a pesky little inborn instinct for suicide,which they believe we are there to spoil the fun and prevent.They are esp. bad if they are WELSH,and evening for Welshies is safari time.One of mine took her two lambs off on safari at 7pm,the usual thing is to grab a lamb and make daft bleating noises so your escaped ewe will follow you home safely,after it`s beloved child.Mine just gave me a baleful stare and said ,in sheep of course "you can have that one..I`ll keep this one,and I`m off down the road to the Pub".
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lol... maybe we should warn OP of feeding time in winter :eek:
 
We've just bought 6 Zwartble ewe lambs with the intention of breeding for meat next year but with the benefit of helping my grazing (assuming it will ever stop raining and I can allow my horses more than the small patch of field they are on).
Apparently (according to my friend who sold us the sheep) this breed are pretty low maintenance, they are hardy, easy to handle and easy to lamb. Not sure about the worming dipping etc but as the weather gets colder, which has happened here today, this should be less of an issue. They are pretty ingenius escapologists so I can't wait to get them out of my small holding paddock and into the field!
 
x grazing is very good for the pasture. you need an agricultural holding number if you own the sheep, and going to breed or rear for meat. easiest way is to let a farmer with an ag number and registered flock to graze for 4 weeks spring and autumn. sheep need special care and are need maintenance re flies/worming/dipping/feet trimming/shearing.
 
As my vet used to say"there are two sorts of sheep! Dead and potentialy dead". However ,I would keep sheep again ,if I had the opportunity. They are fantastic for improving grazing.
 
Sheep are great. Wish we could still have them here but the local contract shepherd isn't interested now we have more horses. The sheep are wonderful grazers, and hopefully your friend who owns them would be looking after their needs, not you.

You do need sheep fencing. In our case this shepherd put it up (real professional stuff and the voltage was a bit higher than the norm so the sheep - and the horses - respected it). They refer to sheep droppings round here as Golden Droppings as they're so beneficial to the pasture.
 
I had two pet lambs in Scotland, given to me by a farmer friend. They had had joint ill and had been bottle reared so very tame. Farmer used to come and shear them for me and spray their coats each summer.

They loved the horses and used to have the same routine. They followed the horses down to my yard and spent winter nights in the Hay Barn and got 'turned out' in the morning. They did sometimes wander around my garden. The vet said "Aren't you worried they will get onto the road?" "Of course not" I replied " I have told them they are not allowed on the road".

One night, one little lamb refused to come in. We tried picking her up but she fell. She had a broken leg. She had probably got knocked over and trodden on when horses were at the gate waiting to come in - she did used to join the queue- and she was so small.

We carefully rolled her onto a plastic sheet and stretchered her onto my lap in the back of the estate car and off to the vets. They put on a plaster cast and she made a full recovery.

They were such characters but sadly I could not bring them to France so they went back to my friends farm.
 
They eat all the rubbish grass, a joke between me and my boss is that we shouldn't let the sheep get bored because otherwise they will die. They are not that bad though, just don't get inbetween an yew and its lamb whilst tagging. I have the scars to prove what happens :p
 
hey I've just been looking up all the rules regarding sheep on DEFRA website and apparently there is special rules for 'pet' sheep, if anyone knows anything about paperwork etc with sheep keeping. I do not live on site so do I have to reg my yard as agricultural holding?

thanks to everyone for helpful replies!:D
 
cumbriamax,

I generally resist the, should-I-shouldn't-I questions. If you are to keep sheep, then you must do it properly, that you realise. Just keeping a few, and leaving them to get on with it, is a recipe for disaster.

If you are to continue, then you need to contact your local Animal Health Office (look up defra A/H). They will give you a Holding Number, and that will be attached to both you and your land. They will also give you a Flock Number and a Movement Register, in which you must record all movements on and off your holding, and all births and deaths, and any administered medication, including fly treatment. As soon, or better still before, your sheep arrive, find out where your nearest knackers yard is. You will certainly need them at lambing time, as we're no longer allowed to bury dead sheep, of what ever age.

Assuming that you've got this far, and you're still keen on sheep, now we'll get to the potentially difficult bit; management! Don't expect a single strand of electric fence to keep them in, it wont, and without a knowledgable dog, you'll spend every waking hour getting the bloody things back in!

Every spring they will need a preventative fly treatment. If you fail to do this, then flies WILL, without fail, lay eggs on the sheep's back, the eggs will hatch and the maggots will eat your sheep alive. It's called Fly Strike. It's preventable, but not so easy to deal with, once established. It's horrible.

In about June or July, you will need to have them clipped, and the person who does your clipping for you will probably be quite happy to take the wool away. Let him. Wool is now classed as a hazardous waste!! About a month after they've been clipped, then you'll need to give them a second dose of fly treatment. You should then be alright for the rest of the year.

Are you still there? Excellent! Now we'll go to internal parasites. If you shut your new sheep in, for 24 hours and worm them upon arrival, then providing that you don't keep them any more intensively than 2 or 3 to the acre, then an annual dose should be fine. There is one exception. LIVER FLUKE. It's a complicated and ingenious parasite. If you have land which is wet, or contains Pin Grass, then be very careful. Gut parasites, even though they have the same name are actually different for horse and for sheep, except that is for LF, and it is transferable between species. To my knowledge, there is no known treatment for LF, in horses, except perhaps for a liver transplant.

The best advice which I can give you, is to seek out an experienced local shepherd, and ask for his/her advice. Most will be happy to help you, I'm sure.

If you don't make any progress, locally, then you'd better Pm me. Good Luck!

Alec.

ps. The Ryland is a very nice little sheep! Not really helping, am I?!
 
I've kept my horses with other people's sheep for quite a while and agree with everything already said, especially the bits about sheep being born looking for the quickest way to die!!

I have never had a problem with sheep nibbling tails or my horses attacking the sheep but my friend's cob has a personal hatred of selected sheep and to watch a large horse attacking a sheep is not pleasant.

The only thing I would add is that you have to be careful with some horse feeds and licks as some are potentially poisonous to sheep, I think its to do with the copper content?

I don't think sheep dipping is compulsory anymore but I agree totally with what Alec Swan said about fly strike - I have seen sheep die horrible deaths because the so called shepherd didn't treat them.

I had my Ardennes cross cob out with some sheep last week and one of those huge transport planes went over just above ground level - the supposedly spooky horse just stood watching doing up his anorak and marking it down in his notebook but the sheep ran round bleating pathetically and went and hid behind him!
 
God..I can see it now,as someone unwraps a potential sheep killing lick,all those suicideal titters from them at the thought of being provided with yet another way die.
 
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