Green horse falling in through shoulder

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Ebbw

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Hi

I'm looking for some advice/tips for exercises to help a horse understand that there are other ways of carrying and cornering than free falling onto his shoulder!

Please note - I'm new to schooling having been a happy hacker for years.

The horse in question is a green 5yo cob.
He's a willing soul and does try, but sours very easily if he gets nagged.
He cuts in terribly on the right rein. If I'm lucky I might get 2/3rds of a circle where he appears to be doing the right thing, but then for the last 1/3rd he'll be on his inside shoulder. I've tried using my inside leg, but he doesn't respond. I don't get the impression he's being willful, it just seem like he can't offer a response because his weight distribution won't allow it.
He does know TOF and he can leg yield a bit.

Any hints and tips?
Especially keen to hear exercises I can use whilst hacking as I have only sporadic access to a suitable schooling area.

We're hoping to do prelims soon, so I'd like to be addressing this issue otherwise we're going to get plenty of incorrect bend comments.
 
xloopylozzax said:
open outside rein to let him move out and keep your stick on his inside shoulder to remind him (and leg to yield him over.)
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Hi

Thanks for your reply.
I've tried something very similar (perhaps I didn't open up my outside rein enough?), but I still had the same feeling of him being 'stuck'. He wouldn't respond to leg or pressure of stick.
I'm puzzled because he understands moving away from the leg (does TOF and leg yield) but he won't/can't (suspect it's can't) offer it on a circle.
 
I find it really useful to school around something to get you started. I have a very green cob with me at the moment and I have a pile of jumps in the middle of my schooling area. I started off doing fairly small circles around the jumps and asking for some bend and keeping him out with a schooling whip. Do plenty of walking to start with until he gets the idea and then trot, and gradually make the circle bigger. After only a few days this cob went from not being able to bend at all to being able to do quite nice circles in an open field. I also do carrot stretches before and after working him to help supple him up.
 
will follow this with interest as was about to post the exact same about my 5yr old. He's a little whizzy pony and very green. He naturally bends slightly left all the time. I am working on leg yield already on the left rein and hes going beautifully. on the right its a different story - he can barely walk a circle, falls in round every corner and never manages to get right canter.
 
Will be following this thread with interest. My 5 year old is working beautifully on the right rein, looking really grown up and starting to carry himself, and everyday we start where we left off.
Left rein is another story, he really "tries" but nothing dramatic happens! Stck pressure, spurs etc, and I am loath to get mean or angry as he obviously finds it difficult!!
 
Do plenty of stretches every day, this can be in the stable or while your on board, it may be that he's less supple or has more muscle on one side and therefore finds it harder on one rein than the other.

Jump on box or a stool from behind your cob while he's stood square, look carefully along his back, across his withers, down his shoulders, are they both even? also from the front, have a good look to see if there is any differences up from his forearms to his shoulders, up to the withers etc many horses are muscled up more on one side that the other but he could be tight in the opposite shoulder or neck region which can cause them to fall out a little on one rein and fall in on the other, often getting mistaken for a nice bend on one rein and falling in on the other, when in fact it isn't quite that.

So I'd work on loosening any tight muscles, if you do it twice a day in the stable (a serious of carrot stretches) and while your on him once you have warmed up a little, flexing the head and kissing your stirrup iron, watch how the horse bends round, some horses if uneven will alter the level of the head carriage while bending round, you need to work on getting this even but start of gently, after a month you'll notice a differnce, even in our schooling.

Lateral work and riding squares for example always improves your circles.

Tapping the shoulder with a schooling whip to get the horse to move out is not really the answer, he has to be correctly balanced in walk and understand how to use and bend his body by turning correctly in walk using your legs, bending from the poll through his body to his quarters, a whip wil not do this, get this right on both reins and you'll see the difference when riding your circles.
 
you are all dealing with the same problem.. lack of straightness ;)

Horses naturally tend to be "bent" to the left, thus bending to the right can be a challange. Horses who lack natural suppleness will find it even more difficult.

I suggest improving straightness on a straight line first. You will find he is stronger in the right hand, and light in the left, therefore you need to encourage the pony to take contact into the left rein and use your right leg to "activate" his right hind and work more "into" the left rein. Think of him like a banana, you want to straighten him by encouraging the left side to stretch.

Once you have achieved improved straightness, try to maintain this new found straightness on turns and when riding circles ride as a series of straight lines (like a 50p) and not a circle. using outside aids to turn (imagine a wall forcing you in) do not pull/flex the neck round, all this will do is swing the Qs out at this stage.

This is a basic training step that youngsters need to progress thru to be able to do dressage & give a good ride, so crack on girls - it'll work for you all :o)
 
Sun said:
you are all dealing with the same problem.. lack of straightness ;)

Horses naturally tend to be "bent" to the left, thus bending to the right can be a challange. Horses who lack natural suppleness will find it even more difficult.

I suggest improving straightness on a straight line first. You will find he is stronger in the right hand, and light in the left, therefore you need to encourage the pony to take contact into the left rein and use your right leg to "activate" his right hind and work more "into" the left rein. Think of him like a banana, you want to straighten him by encouraging the left side to stretch.

Once you have achieved improved straightness, try to maintain this new found straightness on turns and when riding circles ride as a series of straight lines (like a 50p) and not a circle. using outside aids to turn (imagine a wall forcing you in) do not pull/flex the neck round, all this will do is swing the Qs out at this stage.

This is a basic training step that youngsters need to progress thru to be able to do dressage & give a good ride, so crack on girls - it'll work for you all :o)
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Ok, for now is it acceptable (i.e not detrimental) if I don't focus riding circles and corners too accurately (in terms of bend) for now but instead really encourage that right hind to 'fill' the left rein/lighten the right rein?

Will accurate riding of the straight lines begin to limber up the legs which in turn will influence the rest of the horse and encourage him to bend correctly?

Is addressing the situation on the straight first the human equivalent of starting a toning/strengthening regime with small weights before moving onto the more taxing stuff (for the horse that would be corners and circles)?
 
Ebbw said:
Thank you.

Ok, for now is it acceptable (i.e not detrimental) if I don't focus riding circles and corners too accurately (in terms of bend) for now but instead really encourage that right hind to 'fill' the left rein/lighten the right rein?

Will accurate riding of the straight lines begin to limber up the legs which in turn will influence the rest of the horse and encourage him to bend correctly?

Is addressing the situation on the straight first the human equivalent of starting a toning/strengthening regime with small weights before moving onto the more taxing stuff (for the horse that would be corners and circles)?
Click to expand...

yes, exactly, you need to correct the straightness issue, then you will be able to use circles to improve supplness.

When on a circle the feel needs to be that you are stretching the outside "side" around you inside leg, thus contracting the inside "side" this principle is what supples the horse laterally speaking. Without correct straightness all that happens is the hind swings out or he throws weight onto his shoulder, or tilts his head, or loses rythm, well you get the idea, the list is endless! good luck x
 
I would be working generally on his balance and responsiveness - changes of bend, transitions, half halts, spiralling, loops, serpentines, lateral work and unexpected patterns/changes of direction. It is important that he is listening to you at all times rather than just doing what he thinks you might want.

Try riding a square: ask for a little shoulder-fore for 2-3 strides before each turn, think about turning so that you will end up inside the track after the turn, then give a momentary half halt type rein aid down the outside rein on the last stride before the turn before immediately relaxing (but not giving away) the outside rein and allowing him to turn, but as he turns leg yield out so that you do in fact end up back on the track. If he doesn't listen to the half halt aid and tries to collapse in on the turn then halt him immediately using your outside rein (sit up, outside shoulder back, block the outside rein and stop following his movement). The idea is to hold him to the corner and stop him before he turns. He should then learn to wait before turning, which will encourage him to remain engaged and balanced before and then through the turn. Whilst it is important, in order for him to learn the lesson, that he is made to stop as instantly as possible (within reason, since he is green and you don't want to upset him), it is equally important to give the rein back instantly once he has halted.

The other aid to use (best practised on a circle, spiralling or in leg yield) is to flick the inside rein to the inside briefly (much as if you were chucking away a cup of tea) - if done quickly this throws the horse off the inside shoulder. You can practise this when leg yielding out on a hack. Don't use this aid more than every other stride (preferably less often!).

Playing with leg yield out on a hack is a useful exercise, particularly if you work on accuracy and responsiveness - don't worry as much about bend as about angle so that he learns not to collapse on to the leading shoulder.
 
Lifting the inside rein tips the nose, which balances the weight off the inside shoulder.

Most people are taught to drop the inside rein to 'show a horse a bend' this drops the weight onto the inside shoulder so you have to use more inside leg.

So lift the inside rein as you corner to balance the horse off the shoulder.

Only use a little as you need like 'taking soup'.
 
Agree with better half - always better to lift rather than lower the inside rein. If you experiment with your rein aids (direction, timing, strength) you should find something that helps, obviously in combination with legs, seat and position.
 
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