Green horses which 'shut down' at competitions.....

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I know Milliepops has one :) but does anyone have any experience of this? It is a new one to me and is flooring me completely, I have always had TBs or TB crosses before which did the opposite :D

Last weekend we did a little ODE and Jensen was incredibly sluggish and unresponsive in the dressage - to the extent that I took him to the SJ warm-up quite prepared to try a couple of practice fences then withdraw! He loves his jumping and did wake up a little in the warm-up so we had a clear round SJ then a very annoying green stop XC where he looked at everything with his eyes out on stalks :D

Today we went to a hunter trial and he was completely shut down from the start - there were various factors that really didnt help this such as a small warm-up area when he is still quite unbalanced, a very very 'busy' course with lots of fences in a small area, and a 15 minute hold just as we were ready to go! But he was thinking backward all the way round, he wouldn't even canter to the first fence and was backing off the first row of fences from 2 strides out of the start box! We were eliminated almost immediately so carried on (I had checked, the rules said we could :) ) and tried selecting REALLY small inviting fences - he couldn't get enthusiastic about any of them.

I am aware this could be due to health issues and I am definitely going to get these investigated to set my mind at rest, but has anyone experienced a horse that shuts down? Is there anything I can do to get him to wake up other than take him out every single weekend as we are currently doing?
 
If it is not pain/ discomfort then it is lack of confidence, some go the opposite way and get wound up when they are unsure others shut down and almost switch off completely and unless you build them up between competitions with this in mind each time out will chip away a little more until they stop moving or blow up, much the same if there is something physical going on they cope up to a point if it is minor but the stress of being out can make them feel worse instead of the adrenaline getting them through it .
Having seen the photo last week I would wonder if there is an issue with his saddle, he did seem to have some muscle wastage under the saddle behind the wither and I felt he was far more developed behind than in front which is unusual for a chunky type that tends to pull itself along given half a chance, it could be his front feet making him a bit reluctant to use himself and stopping the muscle building or it could simply be the saddle is too narrow but they would be my first areas to check physically, if he is fine then confidence building sessions to get him enjoying himself, stay within his comfort zone, give him a few fun days to boost him so he wants to work with you and see how it goes.

The other thing to consider is PSSM, traveling could bring it on if only mild and not show on a day to day basis.
 
Apologies I should have said - it is definitely not his back/saddle, for example I had a lesson yesterday and he went beautifully (as always at home!), very free and forward-flowing, it felt amazing :) I realise that the photo last week was very misleading, it did look as if he had muscle wastage around the wither which is genuinely not the case.

How would you recommend 'building him up' between competitions please?
 
Would it be worth getting him out to lot s of local showing shows? Just walk him round, maybe do an inhand class and then go home? I find with babies that showing is often the best way to introduce them to competition. Perticularly if you have one that shuts down when stressed, getting them to lots of local shows where they can get used to the atmosphere but not have anything asked of them often means that the whole situation becomes a lot less stressful for them and makes them less likely to shut down.
 
Thanks conniegirl that is helpful - I was thinking I would take a step back with him and just go to a lot of low-key tiny competitions where he wouldn't be asked to do anything much, so it sounds like I'm on the right track with that ides
 
Lévrier;13607901 said:
Thanks conniegirl that is helpful - I was thinking I would take a step back with him and just go to a lot of low-key tiny competitions where he wouldn't be asked to do anything much, so it sounds like I'm on the right track with that ides
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Definitely agree with that. My shutter downer was improved a lot by attending group lessons with a bunch of friends who made allowances for his more interesting moments! . Any chance you could do similar?
 
Lévrier;13607882 said:
Apologies I should have said - it is definitely not his back/saddle, for example I had a lesson yesterday and he went beautifully (as always at home!), very free and forward-flowing, it felt amazing :) I realise that the photo last week was very misleading, it did look as if he had muscle wastage around the wither which is genuinely not the case.

How would you recommend 'building him up' between competitions please?
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So if it is lack of confidence, do look into PSSM as the signs can be very subtle and standing in a box could be enough to cause an issue that may never show at home, then it depends on the horse, I try and avoid lessons or serious work the day before, and after, any competition as they can often do their best work that day, feeling flat, tired, bored, whatever, the following day, even a serious flatwork lesson can take a lot more out of them that a rider tends to do on their own, mine nearly always have a fairly easy day and just hack before a comp unless there is a need to school but by then it is too late to make any real changes, pure dressage is slightly different but they are not expected to jump and gallop as well as do flatwork the next day.
I very rarely jump the day before, I like to jump properly early in the week if eventing at the weekend, Tues or Weds, then give a confidence boosting pop on the Fri for a Sun comp, the session on the Tues/ Weds is aimed to be a full on improving one, working on whatever is appropriate, aiming to build up on the confidence, technique, height if applicable, do some more technical things depending on what we are trying to achieve to prepare for the weekend, always ending on a good note and hoping progress has been made in some way.

The pop nearer the comp will be as much to get the riders eye in as anything else, a few simple fences at a similar height to the comp, not pushing to do anything challenging just ensuring the lesson earlier in the week had not pushed too far and that they were still happy, confident and enjoying the job, it may be as few as 2 x poles, an upright and an oxer or double then end without being tempted to do more.

For your horse I would get him checked, have a few easy days hacking then make a plan of where you want to be in 6 weeks then work back to day 1 getting a plan of action that fits in some fun days out, xc schooling without doing too much, maybe with another so they can have a bit of a blast as a pair, some CR SJ, lessons early in the week so he has time to recover, there is time for you to compound the lessons and or fit in another if required, there is no one answer it is a case of treating them all as individuals and the more complex they are the more thinking you have to do to get it right, some need to jump more frequently, others very little part of the fun is finding the key.
 
my mare had plenty SJ experience but not XC so when I took her to her first XC comp she was definitely lacking in confidence, very backward, behind the leg, reluctant to canter, looking at everything.

I spent an autumn cubbing, going pairs xc so she had some support and made sure I took her hacking lots on her own to the forest & hiring xc courses, she became much more confident out on the course and took more support from me as I made sure we had done plenty on our own.
 
One of my Arabs was like this when he was younger I have had a few years out from competing but this year took him out again and he sort of reverted back to how he was, I just take him out at every opportunity and ride him at as many strange places as possible and it does help,a lot of our shows are at the same venues which helps as he starts to get used to the surroundings, I always get to shows very early and let him spend as long as possible just walking around and I do short little warms before my classes and find his better, it also helps if you have a friend on the ground helping you just a few little shouts of encouragement and just a prod in the right direction helps, as I tend to sort of do the same as the horse and forget how to ride so the pair of us just kind of come to a standstill.

I do also spend 10 minutes getting him off a really light leg aid and am really strict so he knows from the off I won't put up with it, it is hard for me as I lack confidence at competitions as well so it helps if I have someone else to give us both a kick up the arse:)
 
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I have one of those. Did every test under the sun, nothing wrong with him, just shuts down when he's nervous, mine used to literally not move.

My one is now at the stage where he still worries when he first goes into a strange ring, but once he can see the first fence he's OK, starts going more forward and seems comfortable that he knows what to do. At dressage he still shuts down and hasn't yet worked out what he should be doing. Mine is still young, but getting better with age and experience. Nothing at all seemed to help other than reassuring him that it's all fine & he's doing great, which is not everyone's first instinct when you're getting eliminated. We do lots of hacking but horse tells me that's completely different. If I can post a picture, here's him jumping the first fence last week, and going on to jump clear APART FROM 28 TIME FAULTS for failing to start within 45 seconds of the bell because there was an extremely fierce looking chair that we had to walk passed to get to the first fence....

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Basically it's annoying and upsetting but it does get better and once they're passed the completely frozen stage there's a lot to be said for an imploder that slows down when worried, over an exploder than rushes and/or bucks you off!
 
I'm actually going through the same thing with mine right now, so I feel your pain. Mine has improved a lot since I first got him 11 months ago, I can't get him out every weekend, he only goes out about once a month, but we're still making progress! I think it's just a time and patience game, there's no point getting cross with them because it doesn't help. Progress is slow, but definitely happening, so I'm sure you'll get there if you keep persevering :) As SmallSteps says, there is a lot to be said for not having one that's going to explode on you!
 
Thank you all for your replies - some really good ideas, some interesting thoughts but most of all huge relief that I'm not the only one with an odd horse like this :D :D I agree IKMV about getting cross, it is pointless because it just do any good - we will get out and about as much as possible, and keep it small & straightforward for now :)
 
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