Grrr- agression set back- why can't people keep an eye on their dogs?

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shadowboy

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Ok let me set the scene. Tassy is a 7YO Mal. She likes boy dogs but has always disliked other bitches and would snarl at them. She never lunged at them but would raise her hackles and snarl. We have been working on this for the last 6 months - and she is getting loads better- sometimes totally ignoring them and other times usually only snorting quietly.....

but last week I was walking her past a neighbours (we live out in the sticks- so roads are tiny single tracks. Out of the house shot their TWO flat coated retrievers- gate wide open- I have met owner before and she mentioned one was 'neurotic' it then jumped on her and tried to fight but I pulled her away and batted off the dogs untill the owner came running out of the house and took them away. Then yesterday another neighbour (nasty farmer) let his guard dog GSD out in the front of the farm- no front gate- and it pelted towards her- again she's on the lead. It was the scariest situation i've been in because it was huge! thankfully OH manged to get it away before any real damage was done!

BUT today she's growled and lunged at two boy JRT's that she normally doesnt bat an eye lid at- I was really shocked.
I am so upset as we have really gone back-wards

Do you think we can recover from this? Do we keep doing what we were before- or try with something else to boost confidence?
 
How awful for you, this kind of thing can be really frightening. I was on my own when a staff attacked my great dane x collie, who subsequently nearly lost his leg.

It will probably take a long time, but you can both recover, its just going to be hard work and a long haul. You'll find you're on edge a lot too, so try to help yourself get over it and relax so that you can be more effective in helping your dog.

Good luck, sending soothing vibes to you all, and not so nice vibes to the idiot owners who caused you such huge problems because of their stupidity and selfishness.

xxx
 
Eek I had a similiar situation today with my dog-aggressive GSD - again originating from an attack from an unsupervised Staffie at the age of 2!

A collie x ran at her JUST as we entered the field and as well as trying to get my clown of a Golden Retriever to walk forwards and stop tripping me up (She just stood staring as though to say 'but Mum what IS that?'), and trying to keep my GSD's attention on me, I managed to shoo this dog away fortunately before my girl noticed it. Why people let their dogs roam freely is beyond me - it'd be us getting it in the neck had my dog attacked it, and yet I'm the one trying to be responsible!!

You'll recover from it no problemo, it just might take a bit more time - my advice is carry on as though it never happened, don't make it more of an issue than it needs to be :) sounds like you were doing just fine and getting more confidence.
Good luck, you can do it you'll get there with some time and lots of patience!K x
 
Are you taking her to a training class? She needs to be able to socialise, with safe dogs, if the only other dogs she ever meets are on a lead, with them off, outside the home, it will never cure itself. Did the GSD actually do anything? Plenty of dogs run up to mine, one of whom is not great with other dogs, but I cannot hide him away for ever and I now do let them sniff and whatever, if it escalates in a bad way, I intervene and he is removed from the situation and try to make sure he has a positive association with the next dog he meets.

As mentioned, if you're on edge all the time she will pick up on that and react accordingly. She will feel your nerves down the line and mirror that tense behaviour.

FI - a couple of weeks ago we met a female foxhound, the 'I'll get him before he gets me' type. She came at B all guns blazing, snarling etc. I kept a tight hold on him but didn't have him hauled into my side. He mouthed off a bit but was not aggressive back, just 'whatareyoubeingmeantomefor?!'.
He was praised for being good, bitch was content that he wasn't going to eat her and they both sniffed and played nicely after that.

Did the GSD actually do anything? Not being breed-biased AT ALL, would have said the same if it was the flat-coat but if he was only coming over for a sniff, you panicked, OH dragged or shooed it away, you have reinforced that she was right to be arsey.
 
CaveCanem said:
Are you taking her to a training class? She needs to be able to socialise, with safe dogs, if the only other dogs she ever meets are on a lead, with them off, outside the home, it will never cure itself. Did the GSD actually do anything? Plenty of dogs run up to mine, one of whom is not great with other dogs, but I cannot hide him away for ever and I now do let them sniff and whatever, if it escalates in a bad way, I intervene and he is removed from the situation and try to make sure he has a positive association with the next dog he meets.

As mentioned, if you're on edge all the time she will pick up on that and react accordingly. She will feel your nerves down the line and mirror that tense behaviour.

FI - a couple of weeks ago we met a female foxhound, the 'I'll get him before he gets me' type. She came at B all guns blazing, snarling etc. I kept a tight hold on him but didn't have him hauled into my side. He mouthed off a bit but was not aggressive back, just 'whatareyoubeingmeantomefor?!'.
He was praised for being good, bitch was content that he wasn't going to eat her and they both sniffed and played nicely after that.

Did the GSD actually do anything? Not being breed-biased AT ALL, would have said the same if it was the flat-coat but if he was only coming over for a sniff, you panicked, OH dragged or shooed it away, you have reinforced that she was right to be arsey.
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yeah she's done a 6 week stint at a dog training class- but everyone treated her differently so after 6 weeks we stopped going- she plays with George my OH's brother's Spaniel and Bob a neighbours Collie x and they get on fine. The flat coated was on top of her and I think she bit his leg- not badly but in retaliation- OH was not present here- I was on my own. The GSD has a reputation for being vicious as some of the locals in the village wont walk their dog past the farm unless the gates are closed- but some of the best walks are on that part of the village- yes it came teeth bared and tried to get her from behind( we were trying to walk away) other half used his foot to kick it off her although this was hard as she was spinning round to defend herself. I can figure the difference between a warning and an all out fight- this GSD was serious- now I understand why the neighbours just don't walk that way.... we had been doing soooo well and this morning has made me think we have gone back to the start when we got her in Jan. Just because people wont keep their dog under supervision. I have to be honest I'm not willing to let her bite someone else's dog to see if they will settle their differences just in case it is a nasty fight and I end up having to foot a nasty bill and they end up very upset- and rightly so.

As for being on edge- I wasnt at the this morning when she met the JRT as I assumed they would be ok as they have been in the past! but more suprised and saddned by her behaviour :(
 
I would keep going with the classes - if you can afford it - my dogs will go to training for the rest of their lives - if you mean 'treating her differently' in a negative way then try and find another class.

The foxhound bitch came at us snarling, barking with her teeth bared too - he just brazened it out.
Sorry, I was not there and I am not trying to trivialise what happened and this does not at all negate the responsibility of the owners of the other dogs and I understand, I also do not want to take a chance with other people's dogs but now I am much more confident and if I have to wade in I will, particularly if it is his fault!!!

If the dog is proving a problem in the village then something has to be done, I would advice carrying one of those sonic devices or a klaxon if I didn't think Tass might think she was being penalised :o

As mentioned, lots of socialisation is still the key and hopefully you can find a better class more suited to larger dogs.
The alternative is keeping her away from other dogs which is not the answer and will increase any frustration she is already feeling.

As I said, you'll get there, we're still not perfect and he had a grumble at another dog last week but he is 10x better than he used to be, there will be setbacks but you've got to get confident and come out stronger.
 
Around our area in Manchester, there are lots of classes specifically for big dogs - my Dad used to train at one, dealing with behavioural problems in dogs, and even though it was technically a GSD club, we did have a few malamutes, a Samoyed and many rotties and mastiffs etc (not all behavioural problems, some were there for straight out agility or obedience training). There might be one near you?? :confused:
Agreed with CC, if they treat her differently in a negative way, switch training classes, find one who deals with regularly or specialises in big dogs, as the negativity of your training class may make her not want to go to school or not help her to progress.
 
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We're allowed 10% of all member dogs as non-GSDs.
We have 2 dobes, two Malis and one Mali x Dutch herder, one rott.
It is a working club but we do deal with issues, while not breed specific, can be present in lots of bigger dogs. I have seen a huge turnaround in lots of dogs once they are given something to 'do' and keep them occupied (not suggesting she isn't, OP!) and some people come for two sessions, get the right idea, then we never see them again! Not ideal of course....

Do stick at it SB, it took a full year to get my fella to wise up and while he will never be perfect, the is ten times better than he was. People will be twerps and let their dogs run loose, I used to get angry too but if it happens it happens and we have to move forwards :)
 
Sorry- only just got back on line since last night. They were really worried she would bite something so kept her sat away from others- and it was boring- spending more time listening to her talking than doing anything else. I've asked around and other than a local behaviour specialist who charges so much I just couldnt afford it! So we have been spending time just playing with George and Bob. Perhaps she is bored? I don't know but she's walked for 20min in the morning than anything between an hour to 2 hours in the eve as me and OH are keen walkers. She has been in kennels 8 months beofre we got her as they couldn't rehome her so it may have gotten worse. The only think I know about her past is she lived with a male Mal but has always been bad with bitches...
 
That sounds poo! And only likely to heighten her frustration.
Don't know much about Mals but that sounds fine for a large breed dog of her age, particularly with her lameness issue she had.
But exercise and play and tiring her brain out will do no harm. Could you swim her?
Focus training? That will make her think and will help minimise aggression/insecure behaviour because she will be too busy looking at you to worry about other dogs.

TBH the trainers at our club won't train us ANYTHING unless we can get the dogs to pay attention to us - IE focus - start at home and then add in distractions.

If you can't find another class, it may just be a matter of watching her and do keep up the play with George and Bob.

My old female was horrid to other bitches but it was just a matter of keeping an eye on her, looking out for her body language and encouraging her to watch my mum and me and she didn't really care about other dogs. There's a reason we get called bitches!

I've just had a look at your stats and I see you got Tass what, late last year or early this? Don't be so hard on yourself, you've done a great thing for this old girl, you seem to have made loads of progess already, if you think how long it took for her to get like this, including eight months in kennels, poor girl, it won't be solved overnight.
Keep up the good work and try not to feel disillusioned, my boy, like I say, will never be good with every dog we meet but if you know what to look out for, be confident, keep your nerve, and aren't prepared to take any nonsense.
 
have you considered doing agility with her?
its a different way for them to socialise and can be great fun for you both.

we had this problem with our doberman, 1 step forward, 2 steps back etc...
we kept her on her own at agility for a bit and gradually let her meet the others 1 by one, not all of them, just a select few who we knew wouldnt argue back and she got to the point where she would roll round playing with a collie, a breed she doesnt get on with very well because of the eye-contact thing they do.
It helped her soo much as she learnt to associate agility, something she loves, with seeing other dogs she likes. we can now let her off on walks and if we see a dog, call her back but leave her off and still feel safe that she is normally ok now

you'll find something that works for you both, just try to relax when you see another dog and it will help her to aswell.

good luck :D
 
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