Grrrr, my horse is sooo difficult!!! Long post! sorry!! (...and rant)

BorgRae

BorgRae

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Urgh, ok... so spring began, the weather picked up after winter and the horses were due to be turned out (this is back in March).

On our yard, it's 5 horses to a large paddock. Each horse got turned out individually at first so they could get the wind out their sales without doing damage to other horses. So as you would expect a buck and a fart, a gallop or two... No no no, my boy ran, literally for 3 hours straight on his first time out!!!!! Ok, I forgive him for that, he's a bit excitable! :o

Anyway, the horses were then turned out in two's/three's to get used to being out again. WELL, my lad decided he was the boss of the world, chased the other two around like a lunatic, and bullied them!!!!

Consequently, and quite rightly, the YO couldn't risk putting him out with the other horses. So since March he has been in his own really small paddock (it's like a lami paddock, limited grazing).

Anyway, I felt really sorry for him not being able to play with the other horses and have a run around, so asked the YO if we could try again?! He's calmed down a lot since being out and so thought it would be different. She's great and said yes.

GRRRRRR... tried him today, and he has just been a MONSTER again!!!! Chased all of the other horses, lashed out at horses in opposing fields, galloped straight for and hour! :mad: YO just called and said, sorry, but he's gonna have to come in and go back to the lami paddock :(

He's an idiot!! Why does he do it?!?!?! Now he's stuck in the lami paddock!! Stupid boy :rolleyes:

Thing is, he was fine last year, quite settled. Ok granted, there are different horses this year, but really?!? I just don’t get it!! He’s always been a bit boisterous, and wasn’t gelded till late, but why the change this year?! Grrrrrr!

Sorry for ranting, and thank you for reading (cakes for all!!). I just needed to get that off my chest… mainly as I feel so sorry for the poor bugger!! Well, he’s made his own bed, now I guess he’s got to lie in it!!
 
No, no winter turn out, but there is a play pen where they can have a run around for an hour or so.

Unfortunately, where I live, there arn't many yards that have winter turn out. The play pen is as good as it gets.
 
That's half the problem them - every time they go back out they have to be re-introduced.

Sounds like you and the YO are going to have to start from scratch again - reintroducing him and one other one at a time.

Poor lad.
 
amymay said:
That's half the problem them - every time they go back out they have to be re-introduced.

Sounds like you and the YO are going to have to start from scratch again - reintroducing him and one other one at a time.

Poor lad.
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Ditto this.
We have no winter turnout like you. We do however have an arena we turn our horses out into and grazing buddies will go out together in the arena.
But being seperated from horses all winter will require re-introduction, and it will take longer then an hour for the heard dynamics to settle down again.
Can you not turn him out with each horse in the field, one at a time in an arena?
I wouldn't do it in the Lami Paddock as if something kicks off by the sounds of things there wouldn't be enough room for the horses to get away from eachother.
 
That's what we initially tried, but unfortunately, he decided to corner the other horse and lash out at him. Not sure we can risk it again? For the other horses sake.

He's just turned 7, and in his riding, handling and stable manners etc, he's really grown up over the last year or so, but his field manners have gone down hill majorly!!

I feel bad for him. If he'd have just gone out and played nice (like I'd asked him to :rolleyes:) he would have been fine!
 
Damnation said:
Ditto this.
We have no winter turnout like you. We do however have an arena we turn our horses out into and grazing buddies will go out together in the arena.
But being seperated from horses all winter will require re-introduction, and it will take longer then an hour for the heard dynamics to settle down again.
Can you not turn him out with each horse in the field, one at a time in an arena?
I wouldn't do it in the Lami Paddock as if something kicks off by the sounds of things there wouldn't be enough room for the horses to get away from eachother.
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That sounds like a good plan. The horse he kicked and cornered is my mum's gelding, so this summer and winter, I can try and get them used to each other at least.

They're stabled next door to each other as well (it's like an american barn type scenario) so I'd initially hoped that would help, but apparently not :o
 
Glad it helps.
My last mare from day 1 was dominant in the field so I had to pick quite carefully what I turned her out with. She would corner a whole heard of horses. Not kick them, but there was alot of bucking and galloping going on. I ended up taking her back shoes off and turning her out with another dominant mare, and they were best friends!
I find also that more dominant horses seem to cope better with turnout of just one or two other horses, they just seem to run wild in a heard situation. :eek:
 
amymay said:
That is the horse that needs to come out. And I wouldn't put them back together again.
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Ahh, ok. Probably a good idea :o

But where do I start? When they tried him today, he bullied all 3 of them and kicked a different one (not my mum's)? So he must have issues with all of them?

Do you think he's just a bully? :confused: Or will he get better?

... I guess that's the million pound question!
 
Damnation said:
Glad it helps.
My last mare from day 1 was dominant in the field so I had to pick quite carefully what I turned her out with. She would corner a whole heard of horses. Not kick them, but there was alot of bucking and galloping going on. I ended up taking her back shoes off and turning her out with another dominant mare, and they were best friends!
I find also that more dominant horses seem to cope better with turnout of just one or two other horses, they just seem to run wild in a heard situation. :eek:
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He has always been "boss" in the field (i've had him since he was 3). Last year, there were only two others that he was out with. He started out as boss, but then one of the other horses took over. He totaly stepped down, which was so unlike him. Unfortunatley that horse has gone now, and with the extra horse in there with him, maybe that's what it is that's caused him to be so riled. The 3 he would be out with now are very timid. (there should be a 4th, but he's in a different field now.)

I'll see if there are any other dominant horses on the yard, and ask their owners if they'd mind "giving it a go" to see how they get on. Based on his escapade today, i'm not sure other owners will be too willing to risk it. But I will definitely try!!!
 
I t hink he just needs the chance to pair bond with something and then he will probibily settle down. He sounds exactily like my mare. Little 15.2 would bully the 17hh'ers!
Poutu calmed right down after a mare came to my yard and was accused of being a bully' so I said fine put her in with Poutu. They hated eachother for about 2 weeks, but we persued it as there was no kicking. Just moody faces and each of them staying at each end of the field. In the end they couldn't bear to be seperated.
 
BorgRae said:
Ahh, ok. Probably a good idea :o

But where do I start? When they tried him today, he bullied all 3 of them and kicked a different one (not my mum's)? So he must have issues with all of them?

Do you think he's just a bully? :confused: Or will he get better?

... I guess that's the million pound question!
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Sorry, I did actually delete that - because I realised what a stupid thing I'd said.

If he's having a go at everything - then it may well be life on his own unfortunately.

I sympathise - I had a mare just like him.
 
Catch 22, you hope that he would settle down but equally understand that other owners may not want to risk their horses.

One extreme action if you could bear it would be to take his back shoes off while reintroducing. Also, perhaps talk to your vet about a calmer before he goes out? and then see if you can put him out with just one other horse for an hour and see how that goes? When I brought my new boy home I just put front shoes back on and no hinds till he was settled. Just as well as he seemed to be a little handy waving his back legs around at first. I am lucky in that my yard turns out in 2 and 3 only (some on their own) and Billy was mixed in with a couple of horses till we found the right pairing. (back to the horse he came to the yard with and a fairly up for it 15 hand pony!)
 
amymay said:
Sorry, I did actually delete that - because I realised what a stupid thing I'd said.

If he's having a go at everything - then it may well be life on his own unfortunately.

I sympathise - I had a mare just like him.
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It is frustrating with him. I just wish I could say to him, (and have him understand) "If you're a good boy and don't fight and kick, and you can have a nice big field with lots of lush grass and play mates all day long"

Never mind, I will give a try at introducing again in a month or so, maybe with something not so timid that might stand up to him. If that doesn't work, then I fear you are right and it's a life on his own :( silly boy!!
 
The root of your problem, I suspect, is his late gelding.
Removing his testes may reduce the active testosterone - but his behaviour patterns will be much harder (or even impossible) to change if he has been left entire for too long.
Although I believe in horses having friends, I wouldn't put him back in with any males - geldings or entire.
I'd suggest you could try him with mares (although he may well herd them and be difficult if they are in season).
Note to all breeders - geld your colts in good time - if they have good enough conformation they don't need testosterone to 'build a good topline'.
S :D
 
Luci07 said:
Catch 22, you hope that he would settle down but equally understand that other owners may not want to risk their horses.

One extreme action if you could bear it would be to take his back shoes off while reintroducing. Also, perhaps talk to your vet about a calmer before he goes out? and then see if you can put him out with just one other horse for an hour and see how that goes? When I brought my new boy home I just put front shoes back on and no hinds till he was settled. Just as well as he seemed to be a little handy waving his back legs around at first. I am lucky in that my yard turns out in 2 and 3 only (some on their own) and Billy was mixed in with a couple of horses till we found the right pairing. (back to the horse he came to the yard with and a fairly up for it 15 hand pony!)
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When we try again, if we can try again, I will definitely take shoes off. Calmer is a good idea as well. The shame of it is, that he has become a lovely horse in every other way. It's taken me years to get us to where we are now (long story, won't bore you!! lol). He used to be on a clamer as he was a monkey all of the time!! Now he has calmed down natuarlly in every other way... except in the field it seems!

We'll see, you never know, maybe he's happy in his little paddock all to himself!! Maybe it's just me that wants him to be out with the others?? Who knows!! :rolleyes: ... monkey!!

Dear me, these bloomin horses don't half worry us!!!! ;)
 
If he's been stuck in a lami paddock on his own and you suddenly put him in a big field it's natural he will have some energy to burn off and be exuberant. I don't think keeping him in a lami paddock is going to help him get round this.
 
Sorry but I think it is understandable for him to behave that way after a winter in. I do sympathise as I had issues with my horse doing the same a while ago and he had been out with the horses all winter.
The only way is to leave them to it for a week to sort out there pecking order, if everytime he chases one he is removed he isn't going to learn. This is hard when the yard doesn't allow it but honestly it does work.
Is he kicking them or just chasing them?
 
Shilasdair said:
The root of your problem, I suspect, is his late gelding.
Removing his testes may reduce the active testosterone - but his behaviour patterns will be much harder (or even impossible) to change if he has been left entire for too long.
Although I believe in horses having friends, I wouldn't put him back in with any males - geldings or entire.
I'd suggest you could try him with mares (although he may well herd them and be difficult if they are in season).
Note to all breeders - geld your colts in good time - if they have good enough conformation they don't need testosterone to 'build a good topline'.
S :D
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I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head!! I bought him at 3 years old and he was still entire, no idea why?!?! :eek: The first thing I did, was geld him!

He has always been very "stallion" like. Very pushy and arrogant at times!! Particularly with his stable manners. Even when riden, if he didn't want to do something, he wouldn't!!

However, over the couple of years or so, he started to change. Calmed down and began to respect me and my space. He gained manners!! ;) Wasn't pushy any more and the arrogance died down. I put it down to reaching the magic 6 / 7 years old!!

The YO did say that when she saw him in the field, his behaviour was very stallion like. He was chasing the mares up and down the fence line as well :o

I thought, way back then, getting him gelded would be the best solution, he's more like a stallion now than he was then!!! lol! :rolleyes:
 
coen said:
Sorry but I think it is understandable for him to behave that way after a winter in. I do sympathise as I had issues with my horse doing the same a while ago and he had been out with the horses all winter.
The only way is to leave them to it for a week to sort out there pecking order, if everytime he chases one he is removed he isn't going to learn. This is hard when the yard doesn't allow it but honestly it does work.
Is he kicking them or just chasing them?
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He is actually kicking unfortuantely :( and chasing, and cornering and biting.

I'd love to be able to leave him out. I'm certain that they would most definitely work it out in the end, but unfortunately like you said there, when the yard doesn't allow it, which is fair enough i suppose, what can be done?
 
BorgRae said:
I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head!! I bought him at 3 years old and he was still entire, no idea why?!?! :eek: The first thing I did, was geld him!

He has always been very "stallion" like. Very pushy and arrogant at times!! Particularly with his stable manners. Even when riden, if he didn't want to do something, he wouldn't!!

However, over the couple of years or so, he started to change. Calmed down and began to respect me and my space. He gained manners!! ;) Wasn't pushy any more and the arrogance died down. I put it down to reaching the magic 6 / 7 years old!!

The YO did say that when she saw him in the field, his behaviour was very stallion like. He was chasing the mares up and down the fence line as well :o

I thought, way back then, getting him gelded would be the best solution, he's more like a stallion now than he was then!!! lol! :rolleyes:
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In my experience, if you leave them entire for that long, they develop a 'stallion brain' and even once cut, will still behave as stallions.
I think either he, or one of the geldings will get hurt if you put them back in together. If you think about their natural behaviour, a group of young males would only be found in a bachelor herd, where they spend their time fighting for practice, and to establish dominance in preparation for fighting for (and maybe winning) their own band of mares. In the wild, members of bachelor herds can show submission by running away - but your lot can't, as they are trapped in a field, so the fight is never resolved.
Either keep him separately with a very low status animal to keep him company (something much smaller than him, such as a Sheltie may not be considered a rival), or give him his own 'band of mares' as it were (but he may mount them in season).
S :D
 
I would put him in with another dominant horse, my horse is the most dominant in our yard, he's recently sorted a young 4 yo who had been asked to leave his other yard, i was a bit worried as they were fighting none stop for the first few hrs but the next day all my horse had was a graze on his ear & the 4 yo is a good as gold and the herd is back to its normal peaceful ways:)
 
Shilasdair said:
In my experience, if you leave them entire for that long, they develop a 'stallion brain' and even once cut, will still behave as stallions.
I think either he, or one of the geldings will get hurt if you put them back in together. If you think about their natural behaviour, a group of young males would only be found in a bachelor herd, where they spend their time fighting for practice, and to establish dominance in preparation for fighting for (and maybe winning) their own band of mares. In the wild, members of bachelor herds can show submission by running away - but your lot can't, as they are trapped in a field, so the fight is never resolved.
Either keep him separately with a very low status animal to keep him company (something much smaller than him, such as a Sheltie may not be considered a rival), or give him his own 'band of mares' as it were (but he may mount them in season).
S :D
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This does sound so like him, thank you!! This is really helpful!

Luckily, the lami paddock does link on to the other fields so he's not completely isolated and has other horses to look at, just not to "play" with.

I feel you're right and one of the horses will end up getting hurt if we do try again. The horse he kicked today has a few marks, but luckily, he ran away so mine didn't do too much damage (thank god!!)

It's just a crying shame, I wish they'd have gelded him as a colt! Can't for the life of me understand why they didn't!?!

Well, here's a notice to anyone thinking of gelding late... Don't do it!!!!!
 
I have experience of two geldings that are like this. They are like it despite proper introduction over several weeks next to the others and turnout all year round. One of the geldingswould not stay in his own paddock and I had to ask his owner to leave. The other one now has individual turnout in a paddock large enough to sustain his needs. He had been with the herd all year round for two years before his bad behaviour emerged. He was kept in line by a bossy mare, but when she left, he became boss andthe power just went to his head. He would herd the others around and if they so much as looked at him the wrong way, he would run them down, corner them and kick them over and over. He is actually a lot happier in himself now that he is separated from them as he doesn't run around herding them about and is chilled and relaxed. Some geldings are just like this, I'm afraid.
 
Wagtail said:
I have experience of two geldings that are like this. They are like it despite proper introduction over several weeks next to the others and turnout all year round. One of the geldingswould not stay in his own paddock and I had to ask his owner to leave. The other one now has individual turnout in a paddock large enough to sustain his needs. He had been with the herd all year round for two years before his bad behaviour emerged. He was kept in line by a bossy mare, but when she left, he became boss andthe power just went to his head. He would herd the others around and if they so much as looked at him the wrong way, he would run them down, corner them and kick them over and over. He is actually a lot happier in himself now that he is separated from them as he doesn't run around herding them about and is chilled and relaxed. Some geldings are just like this, I'm afraid.
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I think you're absolutely right. He hasn't actually shown any signs that he doesn't like being in the lami paddock. I guess it's more me worried that he's in a small field. I guess we all want our horses to be able to run free in as much space as possible with as much company as possible.

He's been in the lami field for nearly 2 months now and he is chilled in himself and is quite a happy bunny. So maybe I need to let this lie, and realise that actually he's happier on his own, than he is having to fight for leadership?!

....hmm, wake up call!!! :)
 
BorgRae said:
I think you're absolutely right. He hasn't actually shown any signs that he doesn't like being in the lami paddock. I guess it's more me worried that he's in a small field. I guess we all want our horses to be able to run free in as much space as possible with as much company as possible.

He's been in the lami field for nearly 2 months now and he is chilled in himself and is quite a happy bunny. So maybe I need to let this lie, and realise that actually he's happier on his own, than he is having to fight for leadership?!

....hmm, wake up call!!! :)
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I think you would be wise to leave him where he is rather than risk injury to him or the others.
It's also worth pointing out that livery yards like to turn out horses classified by size - so 14hh geldings together, 17hh together etc, so almost 'matching' them for fights.
As horses weigh up dominance on sight, using height and weight as a guide, you can avoid a lot of fights by putting horses in different sizes in together - for example a 17hh and a 14hh pair are not so likely to fight for dominance as two 17hh horses.
Not sure if I have written that very clearly....
S :D
 
BorgRae said:
I think you're absolutely right. He hasn't actually shown any signs that he doesn't like being in the lami paddock. I guess it's more me worried that he's in a small field. I guess we all want our horses to be able to run free in as much space as possible with as much company as possible.

He's been in the lami field for nearly 2 months now and he is chilled in himself and is quite a happy bunny. So maybe I need to let this lie, and realise that actually he's happier on his own, than he is having to fight for leadership?!

....hmm, wake up call!!! :)
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Yes, that is certainly true of the horse at my yard. We used to see him trotting around all night long trying to round them up. Everytime we looked out on the field, if it was a light night, there he would be, trotting and cantering up and down, trying to control the others. Now he's just there grazing and flicking away the flies with his tail. A much less stressed horse.
 
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