Grumpy dog!

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Laura2408

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Is it normal for dogs to get grumpier as they get older or is there something wrong with mine?

Long story but I have had him since a young dog and he has always been lovely. He is gentle, slightly neurotic and has never hurt a fly. He has lived with dogs, children and many different animals and has never so much as looked at anyone badly. He has always been very tolerant of everyone and everything, so much so that he was a PAT dog at one point and has been a surrogate dad to hundreds of orphaned kittens and puppies over the years! He's a border collie and is about 7yo.

2 years ago we acquired another dog, a very highly strung and reactive bitch from rescue but they have always got on fine. They play and have never argued but I think she does annoy him. She is relentless and is always doing something she shouldn't be. He is constantly growling at her even if she is doing nothing wrong, sometimes just for walking near him or sniffing near him. He has never acted on it and it is all noise but I don't like it at all. They still play and wrestle but as soon as that is over he goes back to being miserable.

He always looks in trouble, he has a typical scared collie face on permenantly and every time I tell of the bitch (often as she is a pain in the bum) he looks like the world has ended.

He is happiest with a ball in his mouth but he gets possessive and neurotic (repeatedly bouncing on the spot and staring at things) so we had to stop the constant toys as everyone was worn out by it.

To top it off we had a baby recently and although he has been lovely and never so much as looked at the baby he has become even more growly and grumpy with the other dog, and went as far as to growl at my husband the other day when he walked past him which is very out of character (literally a growl but still!)

I wondered if he was feeling pushed out by other dog and baby or whether I was pushing human feelings onto him when it could be something more simple?

He has hip dysplaysia and has done since a year old so has regular vet checks. Nothing has ever been noted, he looks fab condition wise and is happy as ever out on a walk. He is on anti inflammatorys for his hips and has blood tests every 6 months which are always 100% fine. He does not look any different than he did when he was 2!

I don't want to punish him as he isn't doing anything wrong as such but I am not sure how to nip this sort of thing in the bud or if I should just leave him to it?
 
He sounds thoroughly miserable. I would guess that his hips hurt and he is defending his space. Poor old boy. Can he go for a work up at the vet and get better painkillers? My old lurcher is totally intolerant of other dogs now, at 16, she used to be quite sociable.
I would also make sure he has time away from the young dog and if possible could they be walked seperately? My young lab can't be walked with her sister as sister is always getting shouted at (I don't own her) and mine gets the nervous hab dabs about it.
 
I would take him to the vet for a very thorough check over. It could be something new or a progression of the hip dysplasia, arthritis or whatever. Maybe talk to the vet about increasing his pain relief and/or changing the medication.

I would set up a part of the house that is his and his alone where he can get some peace and quiet away from the bitch. If he is constantly growling at her he will be constantly in a state of arousal, which means stressed.

I would not punish him for growling - the growl is the warning and if you take the growl away a dog may go straight to the next step which could be a bite.

No idea why he growled at your husband...it could be something as stupid as his body language that intimidated the dog. For the time being I would right it off as a one-off, get the above vet check, get him his quiet sanctuary and monitor. If all else fails an APBC behaviourist may be able to throw some light. Set up a camera to video activity so that you have something for them to study if you go down this route.

Best of luck with the old boy.
 
Thank you to both of you.

We already work with a behaviourist with the bitch so I will ask her. She has always noted how lovely the collie is and I haven't any concerns about him before.

I thought it could be pain related but he is so active, he runs like a dog possessed when outside, loves his toys and wrestles with the other dog all the time. When they are outside they chase eachother and zoom around so I assumed he wasn't painful. He was checked 2 weeks ago and the vet thought he was doing great with no signs of pain but maybe not :(

I admit I have been quite stressed lately (two big dogs, one with behaviour issues and a baby!) so maybe it's rubbing off on him. He is so sensitive, for example if I ever raise my voice at all he runs and hides even when it's not directed at him. He is never told off so I'm not sure why!

The house is difficult to split as it's an open plan cottage, the only shut off areas are the bathroom and he won't be crated at all but I will try and find somewhere. The bitch is obsessed with him and hates being apart from him at all! At the moment they are curled up together so don't hate eachother but she probably rubs off on him.

I will take him for a walk on his own tonight for some peace!
 
Some great advice already and I would agree with both posters above.

Definitely have a thorough vet check and explain the unusual behaviour to your vet. Also ask whether it is possible to up his pain relief medication, or try a different one. It does sound like it could be pain related.

Collies are such a sensitive and reactive breed that he will definitely be picking up on your stress levels, which will be having a knock on effect on his behaviour. Is there a reason you cannot crate one or both your dogs so they get some time away from each other? Would it be possible to put up a baby gate on any of the doorways and keep the dogs at either side when your oldie wants some time out? I would also try to give your older boy some quality time on his own with you.

As you know, collies are high energy and will often work and play through any pain when they are aroused and stimulated (ie working sheep, playing with a ball etc) and they are also obsessive. I have known a working collie attempt to continue working sheep with a broken leg! It might be time to think about lower impact exercise - ie no ball chasing where he has to jump, twist and turn - but perhaps hide his toy instead and get him to search for it, try some simple tracking with treats or a toy on your walks or in the garden.

With a new baby in the mix, it does sound like quite a noisy and stressful household at the moment for you all. I would attempt to keep things as normal as possible, and ensure the dogs are still getting their regular amount of exercise and attention, so they don't feel they are being ignored. Are they calm around the baby? Obviously never leave them alone with your baby, but I found allowing my dogs to be around my son as a baby (always supervised by me) they accepted him quite quickly and I had no problems.

If you already employ a behaviourist for help with your bitch, definitely get their opinion on the situation too - as they will be able tosee the dogs in action.

As another poster said, try not to tell your collie off for growling as that is the only way he has of communicating how he feels and if you take away the growl then the only option available could be to bite. Having said that, I have two male GSDs who grumble and growl at one another (but it never goes any further) and I do tell them to pack it in. It is all about trying to discover the trigger for the growling.

Let us know how you get on.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone.

Second dog is a working line GSD. She is very highly strung and reactive and is on the go constantly. She is fearful around strange dogs and people too. I think it impacts him more than I wanted it too as she sort of clung to him when we got her and she uses him as a safety blanket.
If we separate them she literally screams and searches for him constantly. She won't settle and in turn he does not like being alone so it would mean one of us sitting with her and one with him!

He is a rescue and is really upset being left alone, which is partly the reason for dog 2 and they do feed off eachother, if one panics the other does and vice versa which is a nightmare!

Since the baby they have had to take a step down, they don't get as much attention and they do get told off more than before as I can't have them tearing around the house like they used too but they still get out twice daily and for a decent amount of time! The bitch can't go off lead though so even walks are stressful as she is lunging at everything, he is ignoring what I ask and I am pushing a pram! My husband works long hours 5am-7pm so I am on my own and don't have anyone to help.

A baby gate is a good idea. I am going to try and walk him alone a few times a week to de stress but that may be easier said than done :)

The crate issue is mainly a lack of space problem as we live in a tiny house that wont fit in a crate big enough to fit a GSD sized dog in comfortably. We literally have two rooms downstairs as upstairs is a dog free zone and a crate just won't fit! They are not small- around 30kg each so need a decent amount of space.

Luckily they are both great around the baby and don't even so much as wake up at the noise thankfully but they are hard work!
 
Sorry, I am just a bit confused. Is this the collie x GSD that you had problems with or a different dog altogether. Looking back at a few of your old dog-related posts (to hopefully get a bit of background information to your dogs) you seem to have a had a number of dogs over the past few years - so I am not sure who is who?
 
i can only give you an example of my lurchers behaviour ......i had her from 8 weeks and she was always an angel with other dogs, walked away if anything was being aggressive and never showed any aggression herself.....however about a month beforeshe was PTS she tried to go for a terrier who was barking and was really trying to get at him....i was really shocked and told her off ...this happened with a couple of other terriers who were behind a fence and she got quite aggressive......this was really not in her character and as she had slowed down quite a bit i took her to the vet for a check up...she had arthritis in her hips and vet said she would have been in alot of pain and prescribed painkillers. unfortunately we couldnt get her comfortable so i made that decision...she was nearly 13....
 
Sorry- I have had a fair few dogs all of the same type! I have fostered many also so proberbly sound like I have had more than I actually have 😄

I currently own two. One very reactive bitch GSD who causes most of the problems but I can't part with her as nobody would take her basically. She's a nervous neurotic clingy wreck outside of the house but lovely inside and must be coming up to 2yo now. We have had issues with jealousy in the past as she thinks everything belongs to her and she has 0 social skills from being hand reared.

Second dog is my old collie x GSD. He is more collie than shepherd in mannerisms but is the size of a GSD. I am lazy and can't always be bothered to type the full cross but often call him a collie as he basically looks like a collie on steroids! He's always been mr dependable despite having to share his home with many different dogs.

I also had another colliexgsd a short while ago who was very reactive (unpredictably so) and in all honesty too much for me. I just couldn't gel with him at all and was scared around him as I didn't trust him. My baby was tiny at the time and he chased someone. Eventually it came to a head and he went to live with my father and is doing really well now, our house was just too much for him. I have also had various other GSD and collies who have been PTS for a number of health or age related reasons.
It's strange as I don't feel scared of my reactive bitch and trust her but I just couldn't get along with the other dog sadly.

Hopefully that explains a little better!
 
Thank you, that does explain things :) Is it still possible to take your older dog to work, or would your rescue GSD bitch not cope alone? (or perhaps your circumstances have changed now you have a baby). It sounds like your bitch is hard work. Has your older dog always grumbled at her, or is it a more recent thing?

(PS would love to see photos of your dogs, especially your GSD as I am a WL fan :) )
 
WorkingGSD said:
Thank you, that does explain things :) Is it still possible to take your older dog to work, or would your rescue GSD bitch not cope alone? (or perhaps your circumstances have changed now you have a baby). It sounds like your bitch is hard work. Has your older dog always grumbled at her, or is it a more recent thing?

(PS would love to see photos of your dogs, especially your GSD as I am a WL fan :) )
Click to expand...

I will Pm you some photos if I can work out how!
:)

Currently I don't take them as the bitch gets very stressed out around strangers and she was causing havoc. I usually leave collie with her as she gets upset alone. Thankfully I am working a lot less now am am home with them 90% of the time. They get at least one good run a day preferably two.

The GSD is difficult in every sense. At one stage I had all 3 at once which was complete madness! The two reactives clashed massively and it was a disaster.

He has always grumbled at her, but never as much as now. I don't necessarily blame him as she is always in trouble or into something she shouldn't be but he has never grumbled at us. When I think about it it's usually after he has been asleep so maybe I should get his hearing checked!
 
Taking everything into account I would definitely take your older dog for a full check up, including his hearing, before doing anything else.
 
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