GSD - more questions!!!

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Ranyhyn

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One reason I am having a GSD is because I am a single 25YO lady (pah!) living on my own, my car keeps getting broken into and I live next to a dodgy lane
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so obviously having a GSD is going to be a great deterrant.

Do they have natural guarding abilties that they will exhibit naturally (like my terrier ragging her toys) or do I need to do addition training etc?

How do you get a GSD to truly differentiate intruder aggression from stranger aggression - is there really any way?

Kitty
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All of mine have had natural guarding instinct. By that I mean they will bark when the front gate opens, and sound very scary. Once people are in the house they usually lick them to death. I do think they do have an instinct to defend their owner/territory. Buffy's mum had a wonderful temperament, adored children and although she barked when people came to the house I did think she was all talk.
One day a friend (who was a professional GSD handler) visited, Chaka was on the drive and I was in the house. I waved him to come in and he opened the gate, and then retreated very fast as she launched herself at him.
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I went out an called her back and he was then able to come in. This is someone who knows the breed well and he said in his opinion she definitely meant business.
I don't think you would need to train your dog to be aggressive, but train them to accept people on your instruction. It takes a brave person who will just walk in on a GSD guarding its territory, I certainly wouldn't.
 
AND...... Cue an enormosuly long post from CC (she will be constructing it now but may take an hour or two to post it)
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You will have just made her day Kitty!
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I never intended to get GSDs at all, except that I live out in the back of beyond, OH was working nights and when intruders visit they generally come with firearms.
(and a dog would put them off
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) so we thought that our initial schnauzer choice might do with beefing up in appearance a bit.

My two are naturally possessive of their territory, they look and sound the part and it would be a brave or foolish person who tried to come into the yard or house not knowing them. If I was visiting a house I'd think twice about getting out of a vehicle or walking about unannounced if I saw or heard them, the police came by one day for something or other (oh yes, the pot garden in the corn field opposite that was it)and the Officer got out of his car with his hand on his gun! I didn't blame him.

As a visual deterrent I think they are pretty effective, I had one owner here that Boston hated (odd, because he is the original cowardly lion in GSD clothing) he'd stick by my side touching me the whole time, the hackles would be up and he positively rumbled, I have no doubt in my mind that he would have gone for that particular person should he have got too close to me. His horse hated him too
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Mine are not trained to do anything about/to intruders, but I am sure they could have been if I had wanted to.

I am coming back to this thread because I'm interested in the answers to those questions too.
 
Being as I live next to a lane, the chances that someone will scale the wall and look over - are high! When they look I imagine when they see my JRTs and laugh and considering kicking them
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I would like them to then clock my GSD and p1ss off
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Good thinking, most sensible people would think twice. If they do come over, the GSD can hold them down whilst the JRT's gnaw on them.
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What is the law about that? Are you liable if an intruder gets bitten? Knowing the cock-eyed view of some laws, probably.
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Here, the view is "tough, you trespassed, the dog was doing its' job" then "we'll check the dog in 10 days to check that it isn't rabid though, stay in touch, just in case"
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It happened to me.
 
I always had g.s.d's and took them to work as all of my jobs have been loan working....G.s.d's put people on their guard sheerly by the look of them, but they are naturally territorial, not half as much as a bloody rotti
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(which I have now when I lost my shepey bitch) but they do the job nicely and because they are bright dogs they can be called off quickly too and are quick to settle once u invite a guest in and they are very quick to pick up on your insecurities and act on them on your behalf
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They are naturals at barking when alerted by suspicious noises, and there bark will do the job, it will be remarkably unlike your j.r.t's yapp bark
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so from that people can tell there is a big dog behind the wall, if someone peered over they would definatly circle and bark and bounce up at the wall.
if u break down in the car, I dont think u need to worry....my shep even though she was very mild mannered guarded the car with her life and even lept into the front one day when my sisters boyfriend stuck his head through the front window on a dark night to warn him off
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Yes , I've known a few who didn't like people sticking their heads through the car window. One of the people who did it to me was a policeman, (only telling me about a diversion when road was blocked), he stepped back pretty sharpish, and luckily seemed amused by the roar that came from behind me. Mind you that was a few years ago, probably be done for having a dangerous dog nowadays
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And ditto regarding dogs biting burglards, unfortunately there have been well documented cases where the intruder has then complained about the dog, bloomin crazy!
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Hello!!!!!!!!


I *saw* that
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All my dogs have been great at 'reading' situations and all have been instinctively protective but friendly, with only one of my mum's dangerously so. He was PTS
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My old girl would sit and watch my best mate pretending to punch me and trip me up - but when my mum's friend picked me up and pretended to throw me into the sea - well, he didn't do it again.

B is great, he is calm with people but when someone came up behind me once, suddenly and with an object in his raised hand, he certainly alerted me to the fact.

They do bark at people coming into the yard but they stop when they are told.

Dogs are great at picking up vibes - if you are nervous, they will pick this up and be more defensive.

A lot of GSDs are gobby when they first meet people or they come into/onto your property and the vast majority do settle when they are given a proper introduction (which is what I do - if someone wants to meet them, I bring them out onto the yard, or into the house, on a lead, and they can say hi, with me there, and know the person is OK.

I would NEVER use my dog as a weapon but there is something to be said for how safe a GSD can make a petite blonde shortarse when she is out and about in the woods
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If you have a shy, insecure, nervous or aggressive dog of any breed, the boundaries are blurred - with a confident dog, you should have no worries.

You only have to watch the working protection dogs - they know how and when to react.
 
Oi! My chips went cold because I stopped to answer that!

Well I could go into prey drive, game drive, sleeve drive and defence drive but I don't want to bore you all to sleep
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In a nutshell - I have been told by two trainers that the only way B will ever go for protection work is if I put pressure on him - so me acting fearful, the helper being overly aggressive - using lots of noise and body language (rather than playful - the vast majority of dogs who are successful in competitive protection work have their skills adapted from their play/game drive - ragging a rag, biting a 'pillow', then going onto the sleeve - the sleeve is what they want to 'win', rather than the desire to lock onto someone's arm).
However I am not willing to do this as at the end of the day he is a pet and I in no way want him to believe that all men (especially ones in puffy jackets or carrying sticks
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) are a threat or a target.

So the dog will have this 'in him' - but that is where I want to leave it unless I am truly in trouble, it would not be worth the potential change in his character.

Does that make any sense?
 
When I attended puppy classes with my first bitch, there was also a GSD attending them. The GSD was owned by a young couple and as I recall it, when the dogs were about 1 years old, the GSD's female owner was a little disturbed by something that had happened at home.

Turned out that she had thought the GSD would sort of protect her if anything happened but in the days before the next meeting, she and her other half had quarrelled over something insignificant and the GSD had clearly took the other half's side! The instructor tried telling her that it is different for a dog with quarrels within the family and quarrels with people outside the family, that their GSD saw their quarrel as fight over rank within the group and decided to support the highest ranked person in the hope of climbing in rank.

Which only made the female owner feel more disturbed, she wanted her GSD to support her who was the weakest and at first <u>all she heard</u> was that her GSD had chosen the side of the strongest (= the instructor saying highest ranked) person and after all if a strange man attacked her, he would most likely be stronger than her and there she is with a guard dog that takes the side of whoever is strongest (according to how she heard what was said).


It took a long group talk before we managed to make her realise that with a stranger, rank within the group does not matter for her GSD, then her dog would defend its group members against an outside threat.





I've had grown men that had stood outside my garden gate and not dared to go in because on the inside stood my two late Norwegian Buhunds (40 and 42 centimetres tall at the withers) happily saying/barking to each other ***Do you see this man standing almost in our garden?***Yes I see him, he is almost in our garden, do you see him?***Yes I see him, he really is almost in our garden, do you see that?***Yes I see that, 'Hello man I see you are almost in our garden', do you think he will come in?***I don't know, 'Hello man I also live in this garden', oh he really is almost in our garden, do you see him?***Yes I see him...

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*sigh* Put two or more Buhunds together and they simply automatically seems to master the art of holding a barking conversation with each other, whenever something happens.
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Although Finnish Lapphunds (about the same size as the Buhunds) have <u>not</u> understood the art of holding barking conversations with each other and therefore does not bark as much as some other spitzes, they will also definitely let me know if somebody is standing outside our garden and before I've told them to stop, only seeing and hearing the three of them also stops strange adult men from going inside my garden without an invitation.

Neither of these breeds is any guard breed but I'm completely convinced that if I was attacked, they would not be quite so happy any more and if nothing else, they surely doesn't bother about listening to a stranger telling them to be silent...

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***Do you see this man standing almost in our garden?***Yes I see him, he is almost in our garden, do you see him?***Yes I see him, he really is almost in our garden, do you see that?***Yes I see that, 'Hello man I see you are almost in our garden', do you think he will come in?***I don't know, 'Hello man I also live in this garden', oh he really is almost in our garden, do you see him?***Yes I see him...


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Brilliant!

You have just reminded me also of a story I recounted to someone else today about a bitch I know who, when with her owners, can be a complete grumbly arsey cowbag when other dogs are about - because they are ineffectual as leaders and she believes they are weak and she must protect them from all-comers.

I once took her off on her own for a while with them out of sight. Another dog had a go at her and she nearly wet herself. It's all in those vibes and that body language!!!

Right, I'm off for the night now, or else I'm dumped
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Oh and I forgot, since Kitsune mentioned that she thought an intruder maybe could try and kick away her JRT's, I read a book where the author (whose name I have forgot) described how his childhood home was burgled, their large dogs didn't say anything but their mothers yappy little pet dog woke the whole house up and the burglar was caught.
Somehow since the author's father was a vicar, he had errands to the police station, which in its turn somehow lead to the burglar telling his father that he would take a house with a large guard dog before a house with a small yappy pet dog, every day in the week because (as I recall it) :

"there is no way to get them silent and when you try to kick or catch them, they're to small and fast for you to ever get close enough and all the time just yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap..."




Also a quote from The Atlas of Dog Breeds of the World by Bonnie Wilcox, DVM, and Chris Walkowicz :

An English owner tells of walking home from town after dark with her Buhund and another dog. She was attacked from behind and, while the other dog ran off, the Buhund sank its teeth into the aggressor's leg and doggedly held on, allowing he master to escape. In fact, even after the woman was safe, it took several calls for the Buhund to back off the attack and join the owner!


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Now herein lies the problem, my dogs are not barkers. I have since they were tiny made it my one and only mission to have two
*Non scrappy (they are the kindest hearted dogs going)
*Non snappy (both dogs can have food and toys taken from then at any time)
*Non yappy (apart from high excitement scenarios they are always discouraged from barking - they don't bark at strangers, the door or people walking past etc)
JRTs.

I was almost in tears the other day thinking if someone did break in they would likely kill my little dogs (I am very attached to them) and the only thought that comforted me is hopefully my friendly GSD (without doing much) would provide a little safety for all my family.

I am often at the yard late (circa 9pm) and although the very prescence of my two makes me less scared, again I worry that someone would just hurt them and then hurt me.

I don't know if my new found scaredy cat status is because I'm newly single, living in a new town and there has been a spate of crime close to us, but I just feel a good big dog would act as a fab deterrant and in return I offer love, fun, the best food I can afford and a lifestyle where I would rather die than see anything bad happen to my animals.
 
See Kitty, I can honestly say, I have never felt insecure either in my own home or out and about with my dogs. I think you could offer a brilliant home.

As for barking, again, an illustration this evening, we have two young fellas staying at the minute - they were out in the yard and B barked his head off - even though he knows one of them and has been out on walks with him, and is very friendly with him in person, even offering his back up to be scratched the other day, and he doesn't just do that for everyone
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I told B to be quiet, and he was - one little extra grumble - shut it! And that was the end of it
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Yep
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'But...but...but'
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TE I love the thought of you under the lorry - Bella is a bit like that, you have to keep everything very happy and high-pitched or she hides under her own paws or sticks her head in the nearest bush or tussock.
She has a mouth on her though, probably moreso than her brother.
 
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But you might end up with one like Bear!! You only have to shout at him and he runs and hides. I had to go under the lorry and drag him out by his collar earlier because I had dared to tell him off!

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my Bear used to run and hide too... he now drops to the ground and looks mortified if he is told off by me and if he is told off by one of the collies he throws himself on his back and starts screaming as if he is being killed... quite often Meg has only growled at him and she is then stood there looking at him as if to say now what you upto you great big wuss!

both my GSDs have been useless guard dogs, the collies are far more territorial, I am thinking that a Rottie or a Dob is the way to go for a guard dog in the future, except I am terrified of them
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Jack has to get the last word in too.....he obviously thinks he's a knee capped GSD.....

and the more I read about real GSD's the more I want one...damn you!!
 
Weren't their parents working guard dogs????
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Ah, nature or nurture, TE?
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KMD as long as they look the part, I'd rather have a wimp than an out-and-out aggressive dog and if you were in trouble, I am sure he would surprise you
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Jack has to get the last word in too.....he obviously thinks he's a knee capped GSD.....

and the more I read about real GSD's the more I want one...damn you!!

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Ahem....there's some new ones on the site since the weekend..ahem...oh, and on Many Tears..cough cough...
 
I know but the bitch I was watching has gone
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I've been looking at puppies too.....gah!! I'm still hoping I get the job I'm interviewing for on Monday so I can take Jack to meet Milly
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