Gun dog training

Goldenstar

Goldenstar

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I have a new labrador puppy he's sixteen weeks today .
I am intending to training him to pick up and do all the gun dog stuff .
He's working bred , both parents work and and are from working families .
I do have help lined up , the amateur keeper from the shoot my Oh has taken on is going to help and I can take him to a local informal group that meet up and help each other with their dogs .
I have never trained a gun dog in fact I have never been to a shoot and seen them work so I am going into unknown territory .
So far he walks to heel he picking up this well .his recall is great .
He was with me a Blair all week and has got a bit pully and jumpy up but it was just that so many people cooed over him he's got a bit carried away .
I have done a bit of work the last two days and have him settled again but won't take him some where like that for a while .
I have him sitting to hand and voice and staying while I walk away and back .
I was told to restrict his retrieving but he's very keen to bring you something back.
I have bought a whistle and now need to learn what to do with it .
The keeper is going to help with the gun training using a starting pistol at feed time ! Sounds awful but he does have a good reputation so knows what he's doing .
Can anyone recommend a good book I can buy so I understand the process a bit better ?
Can you go and do training at gun dog training school like you can do intensive dressage training for a horse ?
If so how do you find out whose good .
All advise gratefully received.
 
My partner has a series of DVDs which is great training from the very beginning but that's for spaniels - sure you could find the equivalent for labs!

Our local gundog club runs puppy training sessions which covers the real basics and a lot of socialisation. when they are a bit older they also do graded training courses and offer one on one sessions.
 
Go and speak to your local librarian. You won't learn a lot from DVDs. Or the local gamekeeper.

The foundation stone of controlling any working dog is the Sit or Flat Down. You haven't perfected that until you can get your dog to do that instantly at 100+ yards. Recall will be easy at this stage but he will soon learn that there is fun and excitement out there (game!) and then you wil find out how much you have taught him!
 
Goldenstar said:
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The keeper is going to help with the gun training using a starting pistol at feed time ! Sounds awful but he does have a good reputation so knows what he's doing .
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Click to expand...

You're right, it does sound awful, it could very easily and potentially set up a resistance to gunfire, and I would question the value of this man's further advice. There are very few genuinely gun-shy gundogs, despite what we're told. FAR more are acclimatised to fear by inept handling. Your pup's 16 weeks and he's still a baby. Better to do nothing until he's ready. Overdoing acclimatisation or obedience now, will probably come back and bight you!

As DR correctly says, there are plenty of excellent books available, and regardless of breed or eventual purpose, the basics for all breeds are the same. Shoot Day picking up is just the best job (next to loading!). Your puppy won't be ready to do ANY work this season coming. He should though be at an ideal age, 16-18 months, next year. For this year, ask if you can spectate or generally help on a shoot day and locally, and you'll see the established and time honoured protocol. from this you'll learn what's acceptable, and equally, what isn't! Oh, and leave your pup at home for this year. DON'T, whatever the temptation, take him on a shoot day when he's too young. :)

Good luck, and enjoy yourself.

Alec.
 
I would heed the advice of restricting retrieving. He's a Labrador, so a natural retriever, it is not difficult for any dog to retrieve a sock or a stick - just go into your local park at the weekend, all sorts of dogs have grasped the concept of retrieving, throwing dummies for young pups won't really demonstrate their ability as a competent gundog.

I would focus on spending the next few months building a relationship, so that the dog actually wants to be with you. Don't relentlessly heel or make him sit, make things fun, let him trust you - because then when training does get going and he comes under pressure, he knows you are on his team.

There are a lot of great books out there, perhaps even the shooting monthly mags as they have some very informative articles in them.
 
Thanks everyone ,
I know next season will be the soonest he will go to a shoot and perhaps not then if we are not ready .
I however will be getting perhaps more as my OH and a friend are running a small shoot .
My MrGS knows next to nothing but he's having fun feeding peasants mending pens etc etc .
I never thought of a magazine I will look next time I am in time .
Thanks everyone
 
You see, I would try and find a really good trainer.

I have found the very small differences in your body language and speed of correction is the key - a pair of experienced eyes will be invaluable.

I can't help with what you should be working on now as I have springers which seem to be trained in the opposite order to labs :)
 
I have got 'In The Bag' by Margaret Allen and really like it. My trainer likes it too - she recommended it to me - so we follow the same guidelines. I would say a good trainer is a Godsend, but you don't need one yet. Just don't ever pull anything from his mouth, always ask him to 'give' or whatever command you choose (while gently prising open). Praise him whatever he brings you - your Manalos to a rotten rabbit caracass. love it all!
 
Thanks Alec I wait for him to settle if he's excited then say dead ( that's what my friend always said to her dogs ) he's so sweet and good at giving things up .
It's just fascinating to see the how embedded the desire to bring things back are I never really thought about before .
 
Yes, I use the word 'dead' too, but it probably isn't really necessary! Most dogs will simply place the object in our hand. What's important is that the gap between the dog returning and actually placing the dummy in our hand, isn't delayed. I won't say don't 'allow' the dog to wander about with its dummy, I'd say try to engineer the situation where the puppy returns to you immediately and immediately places the dummy in your hand. So often, if puppies are allowed to wander about with their retrieve, as proud as punch and all waggy-tailly, then subsequent retrieving problems and a refusal to release the object/dummy/bird, what ever, will ensue. The retrieved item is YOUR property. It matters.

Retrieving for pups must be fun, and at the age of yours, so that the return is instilled, I'd keep play-retrieving to NO MORE than 2 or 3 sessions per week, with 2 or 3 retrieves per session, perhaps not even that many. Very few Labs need to start any steadiness or 'discipline' until they're at least 7-8 months. You'll have to play it by ear and if he starts to know more than you do and won't listen, then that's the time to tighten the screw, just a little. Never forget that work should be a privilege for the dog.

It is as you say, fascinating just how 'embedded' the desire is to retrieve, but less is always more, especially with pups.

I feel sure that you, your dog, your OH and the shoot will provide endless hours of fun!

Alec.
 
I've been thinking about books to recommend. I've only trained a handful of retrievers but the principles are the same. It's a long time since I read Sharpe's book (below) but I seem to remember it was basic and good. Richard Sharpe was the son of Isaak Sharpe who ran a knackery and commercial gundog kennels in Upper Banffshire in the 1930s - 40s. It was a very large establishment, so they did not mess about. I'm told they had 750 dogs and were ordered to destroy the dogs at the outbreak of war "to conserve food supplies". I met one of Sharpe's kennel boys (as a very old man!) who told me they had shot 450 dogs in one day in response to that order. Anyway, I digress... Here is a link. I am sure there will be s/h copies about for pennies. BTW, another popular writer, Peter Moxon, got most of his material from Colonel Hutchinson's "Dog Breaking" written in the 1800's. Well worth getting a copy of that (it's been republished) just for entertainment value as he covers all the gundog breeds and it is full of amusing little stories! Hutchinson was a colonel in the cavalry and understood animal behaviouur. In fact, his is probably the first book on psychological dog training ever written.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gundog-Training-Amateurs-Richard-Sharpe/dp/1906486115
 
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