Guru syndrome

SEL

SEL

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Also known as next-best-thing itus

I'm sure we've all come across people in the horse world who one week are broadcasting that person x or method y are amazing, will totally sort all your problems out (there's a few on here 😉)

My friend takes this to an extreme. In just the past 2-3 years she has taken up membership of TRT, Warwick, soft & sound, BTMM and recently slow walk group (& probably more she's not confessed). I'm not complaining because I plan to steal her login details for at least one of those, but she seems to be forever looking for the magic answer.

She has an excellent instructor (classically trained so realisation she already knows the stuff in slow walk group) but she rarely does her homework.

Is it an ADHD trait? I could leave well alone but all these courses are £££ and I'm wondering if i could tactfully say something. I'm not the best at tact tho.....
 
Whilst doom scrolling on FB so many adverts come up and I suppose if you have a problem horse you could easily buy into any of them as they all claim to 'fix' your horse or your confidence or other various issues. They prey on desperate people IMHO - does she have a horse with any issues?
 
She maybe wants to learn but struggles by herself so then thinks a different ’guru’ will be easier to follow but when it comes to putting it into practice what she’s signed up for doesn’t manage so easily. Possibly?

They always make it look so easy but we all know our own horses don’t react or behave the same as the horse on video
 
Pearlsasinger said:
It's her money to spend as she likes, so really it's got nothing to do with you.
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If she was happy about it then I'd agree. But she isn't, so if it's something I can gently discourage then I will. I wasn't aware until recently quite how many rabbit holes she'd gone down.

Peglo said:
She maybe wants to learn but struggles by herself so then thinks a different ’guru’ will be easier to follow but when it comes to putting it into practice what she’s signed up for doesn’t manage so easily. Possibly?

They always make it look so easy but we all know our own horses don’t react or behave the same as the horse on video
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I think this may be exactly what's happening. As @dorsetladette says above FB does tend to throw 1001 things at you (especially if you click through to anything). Her horse is one of those big Irish types that can be a bit thuggish but otherwise a nice enough chap.

I mentioned the ADHD because she's had a recent diagnosis and I was half wondering if this was the root of it - I don't think she realised how much she'd spent until she offered up her login details to me & I offered her some £.

Anyway, it isn't my business really. Just thinking that by telling me she's either waiting for me to say "great idea" or "stop!".
 
To be honest if I could afford it I would probably do the same, I do find learning about different ways of doing things (well just learning in general actually) really fascinating and enjoyable. I think my version of this is the number of tabs I have open on devices at once; recently couldn't work out why my phone browser was being sooo slow, did 'close all tabs ' as a 'f*** it and see' attempt to fix it, and it said I'd had 1,088 open, mostly articles I'd skim read and said I'd go back to but never did. (And the issue was solved).
 
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I know a few people like this in other areas of life. One week it’s wild swimming and the next it’s kombotcha and the next it’s hot yoga. None of those things are necessarily cons but of course won’t solve anything if you don’t stick at a protocol. I don’t think these short lived enthusiasms are about the love of learning or even necessarily attempts to fix a real issue, but are manifestations of a personality type that is excited about a new project or plan, and perhaps likes a ready-made well packaged solution.

Having had to google it, this isn’t guru syndrome but I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a syndrome that described it.

ETA: this is also the kind of person that Facebook and other marketing channels are designed to capture with a confident sales pitch.
 
I'd mention how much she's spent in a sort of shocked way. And then maybe suggest she would be better batting ideas of RL people or maybe a trainer and spending her money that way. We all get drawn into Internet stuff without realising sometimes x
 
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Yeah, I recognise exactly what you're describing - I've seen people doing it with both horses and dogs.

I think sometimes people just get a bit stuck in a 'failure loop' where they try a new thing, fail to make it work, try another new thing, fail to make that work and on and on. I think ultimately it is a loss of confidence in themselves that is the root cause - they forsee their own failure almost before they have started and are just hoping for a magic bullet to prove them wrong.

Don't know what you could do to help though...maybe the two of you could do one of the courses together so you could support each other over the bumps in the road instead of her being disheartened by the slightest niggle?
 
SEL said:
Also known as next-best-thing itus

I'm sure we've all come across people in the horse world who one week are broadcasting that person x or method y are amazing, will totally sort all your problems out (there's a few on here 😉)

My friend takes this to an extreme. In just the past 2-3 years she has taken up membership of TRT, Warwick, soft & sound, BTMM and recently slow walk group (& probably more she's not confessed). I'm not complaining because I plan to steal her login details for at least one of those, but she seems to be forever looking for the magic answer.

She has an excellent instructor (classically trained so realisation she already knows the stuff in slow walk group) but she rarely does her homework.

Is it an ADHD trait? I could leave well alone but all these courses are £££ and I'm wondering if i could tactfully say something. I'm not the best at tact tho.....
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Yes, could be ADHD - she certainly sounds like me - I love a new project, for about a week…… I tick a lot of ADHD boxes (note there are a lot of boxes and no two ADHDers tick the same ones) but not diagnosed - due to there being zero NHS / private diagnosis opportunity where I live, but that’s for another day….
 
SEL said:
Anyway, it isn't my business really. Just thinking that by telling me she's either waiting for me to say "great idea" or "stop!".
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You never know, if you offered to give her some pointers (since your having a look at some of it too) she’d maybe really appreciate some help on the ground with what she’s doing right or wrong.
 
Impulsive purchasing can be an ADHD thing, yes from the own admission of people I know with it (as can then not having the motivation / capacity to follow through on the thing that initially seemed really exciting)

I’d say that a lot of the things she’s picked probably do compliment each other relatively well just with slight tweaks in approach / a different way of explaining similar approaches, just all with a slightly different focus.

I’ll admit I follow quite a bit of the “free” content of a few of those and did buy a course with online postural rehab exercises with some virtual support from someone else whilst trying to see if any of the issues I was having were solvable before concluding that they weren’t (but it’s given me some stuff to play with for future horses)

Trying to apply something you’ve never done before that you’ve only watched online content of that your horse has never done before either is really hard and can be quite demotivating.

If your friend is keen to improve their horsemanship and learn then it might be worth seeing if any of the people she’s interested in are holding any clinics she could get to & watch as a spectator or even take her horse to (ideally clinics where at least some of the participants are new to whatever it is they’re doing as then you get to watch things taught from scratch and see the potential mistakes and how to correct them)
 
I dont have ADHD, but in the past I've signed up for short courses, webinars etc, but really struggled to focus on them at all. My attention constantly wanders and any small facts that make their way in to my brain are quickly dislodged!

Sometimes I think I'm paying attention but I'm actually spinning round in my chair, staring at the ceiling. 😄

Ive long since realised that I just don't learn that way, and I need someone IRL to show me how to do things.

I wonder if this lady is similar, as in she doesn't feel she's learned anything from the courses, but it's because she just doesn't learn that way.
 
As someone with an ADHD diagnosis from a teenager, I find the description of it as a disability quite offensive tbh. As offensive as some describing being a woman as a disability. I do not have a disabled brain, my brain type is as legitimate as anyone elses. Completely respect anyone else's decision to describe themselves however they want, but just don't appreciate it as a blanket statement.

That aside, while the impulsive looping and being 'constantly on the search' is absolutely something ADHD brains are much more prone to, the ADHD often isn't really the cause as such. ADHD type brains just have some slightly whacky go-tos when the person is struggling with low mood, low self-esteem, anxiety etc. So just acknowledging someone might/does have ADHD won't necessarily help them that much if it is a particular issue like this that they are struggling with (though it might help them feel acknowledged/seen, which is never a bad thing).
 
A neurological difference which is disabling for one person may not be for another.

Though in the case of the OP I am not really sure why ADHD was mentioned because a livery fellow isn't going to be able to help with managing it- that needs ongoing medical support - nor will it change that regardless of why, this is something she does. (And if she can afford it I'm still not necessarily convinced it's a bad thing?)
 
Nancykitt said:
I think that mixing it different approaches is probably not as bad as throwing a vast fortune at a single cult-like silver-bullet ‘method’ (& then driving everyone mad by talking about it at every opportunity)…I’m going back a few years but it happened to several people I knew!
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My personal favourite is when people are wishy-washy and also obsessive. Join the cult of one approach, preach about it to everyone they know about how it's going to reinevent horsemanship, then get disillusioned after a couple months, find a new cult, start preaching about that, and so the cycle goes on. Whilst also expecting you to believe that every new guru they fall for is The One that you should start following too.
 
You can find it offensive if you wish, that doesn't change the fact that it is deemed a disability under the Equality Act 2010.. It is deemed a disability under law in the UK. Its not my opinion or choice, its a blanket statment decided by experts which applies to anyone with ADHD whether they like it or not. Im always very pro the benefits of ADHD, far more than most people, but that doesnt change the effect it has on peoples lives.

Not sure why you would find been called disabled offensive either. Been disabled doesnt make you less or not legitimate or in some way worse than other people, or are you saying that people with disabilities are less than others? Because thats how what you said reads.

DabDab said:
As someone with an ADHD diagnosis from a teenager, I find the description of it as a disability quite offensive tbh. As offensive as some describing being a woman as a disability. I do not have a disabled brain, my brain type is as legitimate as anyone elses. Completely respect anyone else's decision to describe themselves however they want, but just don't appreciate it as a blanket statement.
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I have a friend who is similar but not in the horse world she takes on every fashion and health/exercise trend. When I’m kind I call her an early adopter, when she s bored me for an hour talking about her latest thing I call her easily led. I suspect she does have an ADHD element in her make up but I ll say this she wrings out more from every day than most folk and is not afraid to try or fail.
 
I take less issue with your friend wanting to learn and more issue with the ‘gurus’ themselves.
Some of these people package up common sense and pressure/release into expensive courses that don’t achieve a lot.
 
SEL said:
She has an excellent instructor (classically trained so realisation she already knows the stuff in slow walk group) but she rarely does her homework.
Click to expand...
Paying money and watching online webinars at home is much easier than turning up every day and doing the work 😬 Nice big dopamine hit from the couch.

Slow, boring, consistency is, well, boring. And hard. Maybe those with ADHD feel it more but I think it's probably a more universal thing than that.
 
I am unashamedly a guru person. I was an elderly beginner having BHS starter lessons and failing at an excellent but conventional BHS riding school.

The first clinic I ever went to was by Lucinda McAlpine. Afterwards, by chance when I was talking to one of her horses by the fence of the field she came up and spoke to me. It was my first taste of dressage, of natural horsemanship and of not being treated with disdain.

The forum New Rider saved me by encouraging me to go to and spectate a Mark Rashid clinic. I returned home from that clinic and did what Rashid had taught those riders to do. It worked. He told me years later, he was rather surprised. But I pointed out that in me he had a blank slate. People who brought horses to his clinics were already horse owners and might have a lot of previous knowledge that it was hard to shift.

In those days, older beginners like myself who were "stuck" in the BHS system had access to VHS taps and later to dvds. Thus indirectly I learned from Pippa Funnel, Richard Davison, Michael Peace and Richard Maxwell.
One thing I have never managed which was taught by Brannagan (at Merrist Wood) was how to sit on a horse at halt and get that horse to move just one specific foot. But I did enjoy and well remember the school lesson with a good teacher, with me riding her own horse and failing to move those feet.

On paper Maxwell was a million miles from me, an old lady rider, but he had helped a RS girl who was teaching me, and his lesson on catching a horse if you fall off when hacking was the solution one day when I fell off out hacking. It took time and my escort and I walked a fair distance but in the end it worked and I remounted. I wrote to thank Maxwell and he said he was glad to know, as he hadnt been so lucky and had once had to walk home.
The reason I liked clinics was that they were about problem solving. Gurus teach the rider to think things out and when my share gets opinionated, that is what I tell her. Sorry mate, you may be bigger and stronger than I am but I have a far better brain.

My most recent guru clinic was with Tik Maynard. I had had plumbing and car problems back home and arrived late and lost, missing his introduction. He took me aside later and explained some terms I didnt understand, like the Hickstead Derby. I wanted to know about bank jumps because of their connection to Eduard Pulvermann. In the Hamburg Derby there was a drop jump known as Pulvermann's grave.

There is a biography of Pulvermann, but it is in German and only available on Kindle.
by Winkelmann, Eduard F. "Pulvermann 1882-1944".
 
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I have mild ADHD and confess that I am guilty of doing what your friend is currently doing x

For me it was the excitement of trying something new, having a few goes at it, feeling discouraged that I wasn't going anywhere and then finding something new to fixate on for a little while.

My lovely Mum and Auntie very kindly stepped in and explained what they were seeing, and asked if it would be maybe better for someone in real life to come and help me instead of all these online courses.

They were very kind and tactful with it - they basically said that I'm old enough to make my own decisions regarding money etc, but with all the different courses I was subscribed to, would it not be easier to pick just one, or pop the money towards some in person training, as it seems a shame that I've got all the subscriptions but am still struggling with a few things, and that an in person approach would be more personal and tailored towards my horse and I xx

I will admit - I did feel a little bit put out (especially as neither are horsey), but after a few hours I realised they were making total sense and looking back I'm really glad that they had a chat to me about it :)
 
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