GWP pup

Clodagh

Clodagh

Playing chess with pigeons
Joined
17 August 2005
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No pics today but BIL's pup came over for a play date. Well, I will stick to labradors!
It found an end of bone on the lawn and when Pen went to play with it at the same time it REALLY attacked her, not playing, a proper full on had to rescue Pen blow out. It is 11 weeks old!! Then it's owner went to take the bone and it really growled at her. Is going to be a very strong willed pup I think. I have had collie, kelpie, Blue Heeler and terrier pups and none have behaved like that.
They did play a bit once all distractions were removed.
 
Is it the only dog in the house? resource guarding is generally quite easy to fix, especially in such a young pup although that level of aggression is a bit worrying. Is the pup male or female?
 
It is a bitch, she lives with an elderly male GSP and two rescue terriers. She has recently been at BIL's stepson for a week while they were away and he has two spaniels and a terrier. She should be the most well socialised dog around.
 
Interesting, WGSD. She is intended to be a working gundog. At least no other dog will ever mug her for a bird!
 
A couple of the ex gamekeepers on the Estate where I live had GWPs and they were seriously hard dogs and very dog aggressive too. Having said that, a friend has two bitches that she shows and works and they have lovely temperaments. Probably depends on the lines.
 
The mother has a nice temperament. I have no idea who Dad is. BIL is hopefully going to take her for professional training. As it will be coming to our shoot I hope she grows up nice!
 
German lines? They tend to be very sharp especially if they've come from lines that pass the full test, retrieve a fox and all!
 
The GWP pup came over for the first time since it attacked Pen today. It is lovely looking bitch, it is 5months old. When it came OH had just shot a rabbit and there was a smidge of blood on the gound, Pen was sniffing where it was, it went over and really stood over it and growled. Pen was petrified, she wet herself, poor little thing. She is very good with other dogs normally and polite but playful, this one can now go back to being banned from the garden.
 
Poor wee Pen. I hope she's feeling better now?

I'm interested-and this is in no way a comment on Clodagh's BiL's dog-but going on what other posters have said above, is it acceptable generally for a working dog to be aggressive to other dogs or to resource guard then? is it a desirable trait that can be used to the handlers advantage?
 
MotherOfChickens said:
Poor wee Pen. I hope she's feeling better now?

I'm interested-and this is in no way a comment on Clodagh's BiL's dog-but going on what other posters have said above, is it acceptable generally for a working dog to be aggressive to other dogs or to resource guard then? is it a desirable trait that can be used to the handlers advantage?
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She is, back to belting round the garden with my two.
TBH out shooting I have never seen an aggressive dog. I possibly only go to rather 'posh' shoots - snort! - but all the dogs mill around at the 'meet' and get shoved in each others vehicles and never a cross word or a growl. Dogs that take other dog's retrieves are not seen, or only once. There is always a sex pest labrador dog somewhere but he is not aggressive, just boring.
Another dog took a retieve off my two once and they both just dropped it when he got to them and turned away (both times on the same drive). I was livid and made sure they never worked near him again.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
Poor wee Pen. I hope she's feeling better now?

I'm interested-and this is in no way a comment on Clodagh's BiL's dog-but going on what other posters have said above, is it acceptable generally for a working dog to be aggressive to other dogs or to resource guard then? is it a desirable trait that can be used to the handlers advantage?
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Absolutely not. In fact being possessive is owned the biggest pains in the arse when teaching retrieving.

Agressive dogs aren't welcome on any shoot and it's mentioned in the J regs they may be dismissed from a trial for agression
 
druid said:
Absolutely not. In fact being possessive is owned the biggest pains in the arse when teaching retrieving.

Agressive dogs aren't welcome on any shoot and it's mentioned in the J regs they may be dismissed from a trial for agression
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well I thought it would be strange but with your 'sharp' comment further up the thread I wondered if it was something similar as to horses e.g. comp horses need a bit about them and in the right hands they are fine etc etc
 
Do you mean a working dog in gundog/hunting dog terms? I can't see how it is an advantage in any circumstances personally (but am not a gundog person). German hunting dogs do seem to have an edge to them. Be interested to hear experienced gundog owners thoughts.
 
The keepers who have kept GWPs of the sharper variety have used them for foxes in the past rather than on shoot days.
 
Poor Pen. Glad this second incident hasn't completely dented her confidence and I think I'd be banning any interaction between the two in future. I imagine the GWP will only get more aggressive as it matures.
 
WorkingGSD said:
Poor Pen. Glad this second incident hasn't completely dented her confidence and I think I'd be banning any interaction between the two in future. I imagine the GWP will only get more aggressive as it matures.
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It was already banned, and tbf to BIL he didn't bring the GWP in the garden, (lol at all those abbreviations!) they met just outside the gate. I have said that she is too much for Pen - a nice way of putting it I thought! I imagine it will be a delight on shoot days, luckily I will only see it on our shoot where I pick up and it will be on the peg, so with care (which will be exercised) they need never met. First sign of aggression then he will be told he cannot bring it.
 
WorkingGSD said:
The keepers who have kept GWPs of the sharper variety have used them for foxes in the past rather than on shoot days.
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but the foxes have already been shot right? I've seen photos of working goldies with foxes in European trials, are they sharper too? (although still not sure what this means in the context of dogs ;) )
 
I would have thought sharper would mean, if the dog got to the fox and it was still alive it would not be put off, it would maybe rag it to finish it off?
 
I suspect Pen is going to be one of life's victims, our older dog is always getting threatened if you meet another dog that is unpleasant, as she is too subservient. Tawny isn't (touch wood) as she is confident. It doesn't effect Brandy when out working and she is very good natured and friendly with other dogs if they are polite to her.
 
Both GSPs and GWPs were indeed expected to kill a fox or cat as part of the grading system in Germany until maybe ten years ago, or possibly less. Such drive is still desired and cultivated in some circles.

The dogs are often used differently abroad; GWPs especially will be used to hunt deer, boar and fox and they will be expected to hold an injured animal at bay until it can be despatched properly. The Deutsche Drahthaar in particular can be a fearless machine in this respect. (Don't please ask the difference between DD and GWP; suffice to say DDs born abroad can be brought into this country and used to breed KC pups, but not vice versa.)

The DD would often live with his woodman in the forests of southern Germany and therefore have a guarding role to play as well. This I believe is where the sharpness can come from. All the breed standards say that aggression is an eliminating fault; however, a straightforward gundog they are not. They can be exceptional in the right hands but sadly I have seen many with strong DD influence in the bloodline become aggressive/bolshy with handlers that didn't know what they were taking on.

Peter McCullough is one of the best trainers/handlers of DDs & GWPs in this country in my opinion and frequently competes/grades his dogs in Germany.
 
As above, really - all Drahthaar Dogs are GWPs (but not all GWPs are DDs). They can still actually receive a certificate of recognition for killing a fox or cat if it is witnessed but it's no longer staged in the grading (and you no longer supply your own cat for the test!!
 
druid said:
As above, really - all Drahthaar Dogs are GWPs (but not all GWPs are DDs). They can still actually receive a certificate of recognition for killing a fox or cat if it is witnessed but it's no longer staged in the grading (and you no longer supply your own cat for the test!!
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So do they have to course the fox or cat? Or is it in a contained area? Or is it wounded first? All sounds pretty horrible tbh, I have no time for cats or foxes but I wouldn't wish that on them.
 
The official line is "engage with, close in on and dispatch fanged vermin" eg badger,raccoon, fox or feral cat
 
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