Gypsies

McNally

McNally

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 February 2009
Messages
1,579
Visit site
I know they have a bad reputation, dont look after their horses, tether then cruely without water and hay etc etc
But.... There are some good ones and often if you speak to them you realise they are normal people who love their horses. yes they have a different way of doing things but we seem to tar them all with the same brush.
The guy i know and his family and friends who help/chip in with taking care of his ponies is actually ok but peoples reactions towards him are unfair.
Hes currently trying his best to find grazing for his driving pony but is being turned away from everywhere, simply because of who he is- the horse in question is very quiet, lovely temprement and easy to do but no one wants to know.
I met him when i allowed him access to my yard to get water for his ponies and leave some hay in my shed for them (admittedly when he first approached me i was a little cautious as i have a lot of stuff in an unsecure yard) however the old saying " gypsies done sh** on their own doorstep" may be true as he and his family are nothing but helpful and friendly towards me. His ponies look amazing and are cared for as well as my own horses.
My point is we continue to slag them off but when people try to improve little is done to help them. This is another pony that shortly will have to be tethered on the side of a road because no one will allow it any grazing.
Maybe we are a little bit judgemental these days?
 
Gypsies are like anyone..there are good and bad to all. The only ones I have a problem with are the ones who bugger off without clearing up their crap.
 
FreddiesGal said:
Gypsies are like anyone..there are good and bad to all. The only ones I have a problem with are the ones who bugger off without clearing up their crap.
Click to expand...

Yes there is that- was horrified at visiting a friend recently where they had gathered in a field opposite her then left- leaving literally a mountain of junk behind
 
As you say....good and bad. But I tend to find there is a distinct difference between "traveller" and "gypsy".
The former tends to be of the thieving toe rag variety, who care not a jot for the dross they breed and leave to starve every winter and then you have a "proper" gypsy who breeds things he is very proud of (and rightly so), cares hugely for his horses, and has forgotten more than most of us will ever know regarding equines!
 
joeanne said:
As you say....good and bad. But I tend to find there is a distinct difference between "traveller" and "gypsy".
The former tends to be of the thieving toe rag variety, who care not a jot for the dross they breed and leave to starve every winter and then you have a "proper" gypsy who breeds things he is very proud of (and rightly so), cares hugely for his horses, and has forgotten more than most of us will ever know regarding equines!
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
I met a gypsy (Paddy)through a friend in Galway.
I was helping a girl who had spent over a year looking for her ideal horse. So we went to Ireland as i have bought many horses there.
Paddy said I know the horse for you meet me later.
We did he said follow me (about 7PM) we drove for about 45mins into the back of beyond & arrived down a very stately drive past grand house carrying on until we came to a lovely victorian indoor yard.
There were 3 of us girls with a lot of cash!!
There were at least a dozen men when we got there NO women.

I thought S***!!!!
But paddy introduce me to his cousin, brother, neighbour, etc
We saw 2 horses shown off really well.
We didn't buy either they were too much horse for my friend.
The guy who showed us the horses gave me his card, I tried to give him a drink for his time but he refused saying I might want to buy a horse of him in the future.

We shook everyone's hands & followed Paddy back to our base. Paddy did take a drink but who can blame him.

These were horse dealers & real gents to us although they may have other dealings that may be shadier who knows.
I have had travellers come round our yard looking for scrap etc or maybe just seeing what we have got for them to pinch later who knows.

It is like any group of people there are good & bad in all & it's always the bad that people remember.
 
I think most people dont have a problem with gypsies, they just have a problem with the criminality and animal abuse that they witness at their local traveller sites.

There needs to be a change of culture that teaches that these things are not acceptable. Really that has to come first before peoples perceptions can change, because it is pretty widespread. Our local site was little more than the base for organised crime in the area (and that was an official council run small site).

In reality a couple of traditional Romany wagons by a roadside, pulled by well cared for horses and moving on every couple of days leaving no litter is fine in most peoples eyes; that's just so far from the mounds of fly tipping, fly grazing and abuse/crime that is the more common reality that its very hard to get past that.

You are right, we should get past that, but since many travellers wont mix and regard country people with contempt, the rest of the community hasnt any way of knowing who is the good guy.
 
I'm wondering if its livery in general he can't get or purely grazing. Many people can't get grazing for whatever reason and have to make do with whatever livery they can get. Often its less than ideal regarding turnout time and costs more than people would prefer to pay. It's not fair if people judge someone on an undeserved reputation, but it happens all the time in life and for all kinds of people. At least he has the option of teathering the horse at the side of the road. If it was me I'd be concerned about theft, dogs chasing or children riding it. I'm guessing his underseved reputation may possibly prevent those occurances.
 
I'm afraid they need to pay for grazing, same as the rest of us, then there'd be no problems. The local gypsies graze their ponies behind the Hilton hotel and intimidate the manager into letting them stay (and to have an unpaid for room there for years) and get free food from the local fast food place so that there's 'no bother'. Charming.

As the majority no longer actually travel, then they could simply find grass livery.
 
Good and bad in all walks of life. Its a shame that they will all forever be tarred with the same brush as the kind of scumbags that leave their ponies and dogs to starve, then sling the bodies in a ditch at the side of the road when the poor sods expire.
I don't think Big Fat Gypsy Weddings has done them many favours either. Especially the way the girls/women are treated :(
 
The problem is that there are "gypsies" and there are those other things called "travellers" or "Tinkers" or other names which I daren't use on here without being in trouble with TFC!!

True Romany Gypsies are a breed apart basically; they have a very long history going back many centuries, and lots of indigenous (hope I spent that right!) customs such as burning the person's caravan after their death, etc etc. A true Romany would never leave any mess after them; they are true country-people with a vast knowledge of herbs, potions, and their knowledge of horses is unsurpassed. Indeed, years ago, the local horse vet here - if he was stuck on a case and didn't know what to do - used to go down to the local gypsies and ask them!!! Romany's are typically gentle, noble people, with psychic knowledge which is handed down from generations. To meet one is an honour indeed.

The "travellers" and various other types such as "new age travellers" etc etc are something else entirely, and the true Romany's will shun them and regard them with considerable disdain as they give them a bad name. These types will unfortunately think nothing of leaving a mess when they go; and when parked in an area will basically go looking around for things to steal........... and then when they've moved on then things start to go missing. They won't steal anything whilst they're in the area as suspicion would naturally fall on them (wonder why???), oh no, they'll wait till they've moved on say 10 - 20 miles and then go back to where they were and start to pinch stuff.
 
Wether you say gypsy or traveller it seems the last form of bigottry that seem socially acceptable. If you replace the words with gay, black muslim etc, most of the things people say about them would have them on court.
A lot of people who live in houses are theives and cheats, and a lot of people who live in houses who sell horses have trouble telling the truth
 
I can't understand the distinction people are making between gypsies (rose tinted) and travelers they've interbred for generations. They do what they do. To play the race/bigot card like the last poser just did is ridiculous. If any other section of society set themselves up within the majority and did whatever they liked and stuff everyone else they would be open to debate and scrutiny too.
 
We have many long established gypsy families around here. Some have bought their own caravan sites, others have a caravan in the corner of a farmer's field and then there is a population that travels through, visits ("the cousins" who are the thieving ............, nicking our field gates, etc.).

The settled ones have a little breeding operation. An extremely nice coloured stallion and a selection of either coloured or bay cob mares. I have often been tempted to buy some of the foals, but hesitate as I worry about lack of worming/foot care. They pop their ponies on all sorts of little patches of land, but importantly, if they are asked to move the ponies, they do. They don't get wonderful care, but they are well fed.
 
My two pence.

I live next door to what you would call gypsies. They have lived there longer than me, in caravans and they have about 60 horses on permanent rented fields.
Their horses get more hay and haylage than mine, they are well cared for.

They race trotters who are in mint condition, stallions who are the best behaved stallions I have come across, and I worked at a stud so I have seen a few.
They go to Appleby every year.
They have a key to my house and look after my dogs and horses when I am away. My house is always cleaner than when I leave and my dogs get gravy in their dinner when they are looked after.
I let them use my shower every now and again, and my washing machine. They rarely ask.

There are many gypsies that come and go and visit, especially before Appleby. They are all polite, charming and friendly.

Maybe I am lucky. BUT you wouldn't call a black person or an Asian by a derogatory name, why do we still slag gypsies off? We make far to many sweeping statements about them.
 
honetpot said:
Wether you say gypsy or traveller it seems the last form of bigottry that seem socially acceptable. If you replace the words with gay, black muslim etc, most of the things people say about them would have them on court.
Click to expand...

guido16 said:
you wouldn't call a black person or an Asian by a derogatory name, why do we still slag gypsies off? We make far to many sweeping statements about them.
Click to expand...

I agree with both of these. For some reason, it's still acceptable to use negative language to describe a whole group of the community. I hate it, I believe in accepting everyone as an individual and not making assumptions based on their cultural background.
 
I really dont think most of the posts on here are criticising the culture of travelling, nor the idea of trotting horses nor even tethering, the enforced roles for women, the denial of education to children once they reach teens etc - these are things which we may not agree with but which are to an extent up to the people how they choose to live.

They are about the criminality issues that affect communities caused by the proportion who do flytip and thump people and beat horses.ie its not about traveller culture but behaviour which is frankly regrettably common. Its not 'normal' to shoot drivers with airguns as they drive down a country lane, dump dead foals outside livery yards, hold up delivery drivers with shotguns, steal huge amounts of cabling and lead etc but it was very common in my experience of local travellers.That wasnt the case with the local deprived council estates, but even if there was such behaviour, the police would address it as would the council. They will not do that with travellers and that makes settled people angry and resentful.

The things people are fed up with are the behaviours which they come across (not by rumour or gossip or prejudice but real experience). The generalisation isnt appropriate in an overall sense, but there is a real issue in respect of the fact that for many travellers on many sites, criminality at a low or very serious level is endemic in much more of a significant way than it is for other 'ethnic' groups. To not acknowledge that is really a case of the Emperors new clothes. Our local travellers were quite open about it.

The culture on (even council run) sites is 'biggest fists' rule and this can often be one extended family who any other families on the site are terrified of. Those are the people I feel most sorry for - travellers who do try to keep their head down and their noses clean.

Now there may well be reasons behind this which are chicken and egg with the discrimination that settled folk have historically had to gypsies (eg does some of the dodgy tarmac work arise originally because these people cant get permanent work because of prejudice). But I think there is more to it than that; a travelling lifestyle in itself makes people genuinely difficult to employ, especially if being disciplined by a country person is unacceptable to them; - and a cash in hand job is handy if you are also claiming benefits. ...People are not happy with their neighbours being conned and then seeing the perpetrators go free and driving new Range Rovers when they have no visible means of income and pay no tax. Nor are they happy when all the women on the site claim they are abandoned and get full benefits, the men pay no tax and everyone else is paying for this.

I think it is also the double standards that breeds the most resentment of all. Our local G&T liaison officer proudly boasted to us that the local site didnt cost the community anything, and it was entirely self financed from the rent for the pitches. ie all the rents were put in a pot and this was used to run the site and clear up the immediate fly tipping. It had to be pointed out to him that this meant that the residents were contributing precisely zero pounds zero pence to the local council for roads, schools, streetlights, planning, police etc and that no other resident could 'hypothecate' their taxes for their own benefit in this way!

Lots of people were desperate in our old area to stay near their families but there was no way they could ever afford the house prices and little hope of new land being released. There were a lot of travellers sites already (a previous council having fallen for a minister telling them to legitimise all the unofficial sites and then they wouldnt have to provide any more). All that resulted in was in the proposal a couple of years back that based on the high number of sites, this was obviously a popular traveller area so should have the highest number of new sites on top...! All in green belt, all based merely on an assumed desire of travellers to live in the area. The people stuck on housing waitings lists just got two fingers and a decade more to wait......

.....This is what fuels resentments. It is not racist to want to see these kind of issues discussed and addressed, to not do so is precisely what causes relations to deteriorate and resentment increase in a downward spiral.

Where I do think travellers have a hard time is in the lack of (genuinely travelling) short term stopping places. ie I dont think more static sites are needed, but more travelling halts. That will enable travellers to continue their unique culture in a way in which a static site can never do.
 
FionaM12 said:
I agree with both of these. For some reason, it's still acceptable to use negative language to describe a whole group of the community. I hate it, I believe in accepting everyone as an individual and not making assumptions based on their cultural background.
Click to expand...

This - I totally agree - speak as you find and treat all as individuals
 
guido16 said:
Maybe I am lucky. BUT you wouldn't call a black person or an Asian by a derogatory name, why do we still slag gypsies off? We make far to many sweeping statements about them.
Click to expand...

I have no problem what so ever with true gypsies. They are a breed apart from "travelling folk".
Travellers I have immense issues with.....and there IS a very clear difference between traveller and gypsy.
I helped a local landowner have some horses removed from his land. They were owned by a traveller who refused to move them.
Land owner went to court and got a LEGAL eviction for the horses as the traveller refused to disclose his address or name.
After they were removed (by a court appointed bailiff) he turned up at my yard, then my house, threatening my family.
Travellers are very well "versed" to their "rights" and they know damned well how to use things such as land registrys and the like to track you down should they want to.
Judge? Me? Yes......but I think I have reason to.
 
I have no experiences of "gypsies" so can't comment, but, plenty of experience of "travellers". The latter seem to land in our area in the Spring, stay until Autumn, watch the crime rate soar with badly rendered houses, gardens, driveways etc. We have so many complaints of "distraction burglaries" etc, appreciate that people should be aware but they always pick on the elderly who were brought up in a different era where you trusted in people. These sort of scum have no morals or scruples!!
 
Irish travellers used to be called Tinkers because that was how many made a living. Ie pots and pans and containers made from tin. I still use it and I don't see why it should be considered derogatory. It Was what they Did.
If you belong to any ethnic group which has been chased from pillar to post, persecuted and looked down on for their 'filthy stealing' ways for centuries then you can see why some have the attitude they have to the settled community. Sadly they are lagging behind in learning to defend themselves and so the discrimination goes on.
Is the mess they leave behind any worse than you'd see on many inner city council estates ? I doubt it. Yes there are problems and I'm sure there are many misunderstandings on both sides. Live and let live.
 
FreddiesGal said:
Gypsies are like anyone..there are good and bad to all. The only ones I have a problem with are the ones who bugger off without clearing up their crap.
Click to expand...

True. Ive never seen any gypsies with horses up here, just vehicles only. They often set up camp in the park and ride car parks round Aberdeen which Im sorry, is extremely annoying! I stopped using the park and ride after I found them playing football round my car...

Its the mess they leave which really annoys me. And that some will happily break into places. One lot cut a chain to get onto part of a golf course locally, the damage they caused to the ground and mess they left cost the owner thousands. Thats just not fair, and they wonder why they have a bad reputation...!

With regard to the correct name for them, Im probably very ignorant but I think of gypsies and travellers as the same thing (my experience of them is purely from watching shows like Gypsy Weddings etc.!). I dont see either name as derogatory.
 
I wonder how many were involved in the riots last summer, when whole towns were smashed and buildings burnt. Dont remenber gypsy, traveller mentioned in those statistics.
 
When I was a young child, I'm talking 45 years ago, at my local riding/livery yard we had a family of Gypsies that came to stay every year in one of the paddocks, they didn't pay any rent but always left the YO an assortment of colic drenches, blisters (yes I know we don't use them anymore, thank goodness) various liniments and the best cough syrup ever (apparently the chief ingredient was gorse) Their caravans were spotless, their horses very well looked after and not one spot of rubbish or damage was ever left behind.

But then there is the modern day "traveler" or "do as you likey *****" as we call them around here, these people would of been seriously at odds with the gypsies of old that I knew, they steal, threaten, leave their horses to starve and dump them when dead/dying, drive huge great big expensive cars, fly tip and seem to be immune from any interference from police...........the crime rate soars when they are about .........but the thing that really gets my goat is the fact that they are never prosecuted or even visited by the police unless there is a murder which we did have last year.......
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
, .

Where I do think travellers have a hard time is in the lack of (genuinely travelling) short term stopping places. ie I dont think more static sites are needed, but more travelling halts. That will enable travellers to continue their unique culture in a way in which a static site can never do.
Click to expand...

Caravan and camping book new one out every year -ish, should give them a few pointers. Plenty of parks around the country with fab facilities, clean well looked after parks from only a few pounds a night.
 
joeanne said:
As you say....good and bad. But I tend to find there is a distinct difference between "traveller" and "gypsy".
The former tends to be of the thieving toe rag variety, who care not a jot for the dross they breed and leave to starve every winter and then you have a "proper" gypsy who breeds things he is very proud of (and rightly so), cares hugely for his horses, and has forgotten more than most of us will ever know regarding equines!
Click to expand...

A true gypsy cleans up after themselves and really looks after their horse (as it pulls their gypsy caravan) Not like the tinkers in their 'hobby' caravans and tipper lorries ect.,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top