H&H petition to combat daft VOSA horsebox rules

perfect11s

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This is also is having a negative affect on other groups of private HGV users... ie vintage steam and tractor groups , private car race teams so it could be benificial to get these clubs and associations on board too,, strength in numbers and all that ...........
 

miketdt

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Sorry but I disagree, any lgv driver who has driven 90 hours in a fortnight plus other duty will not be safe to driver without the minimum rest starting the following week. You driver 90 hours in a fortnight and tell me you are not Knackered.
 

perfect11s

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[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but I disagree, any lgv driver who has driven 90 hours in a fortnight plus other duty will not be safe to driver without the minimum rest starting the following week. You driver 90 hours in a fortnight and tell me you are not Knackered.

[/ QUOTE ] you are totaly missing the point... this is for private individuals who want to use a hgv privately for leisure purposes who have worked say in an office all week and now find themselfs subject to all the comercial tachograph laws and not able to lawfully trundle to a show at a weekend if they have been working
wink.gif
...
 

miketdt

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[/ QUOTE ] you are totaly missing the point... this is for private individuals who want to use a hgv privately for leisure purposes who have worked say in an office all week and now find themselfs subject to all the comercial tachograph laws and not able to lawfully trundle to a show at a weekend if they have been working
wink.gif
...

[/ QUOTE ]
So how would VOSA know how many hours that you had worked unless you where a professional driver ?
Its about self discipline for the safety of all road uses.
 

hairycob

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If you work in a job with standard hours it's going to be pretty easy for them to find out how many hours you work. I assume question 1 would be "Do you work". Question 2 would be "what hours" and fibbing, I assume, an offence in itself. So in less than a minute they would know I worked Monday to Friday, 9 til 5.
 

Foxford

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Most of the petitions I've signed lately have been on the "number 10" website. I signed it but my computer wouldn't let me open the link to confirm (it thought it was suspicious).
 

LickettySplit

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[ QUOTE ]
Its about self discipline for the safety of all road uses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree, but surely private individuals driving for recreational purposes present a low risk to other road users, regardless of how many hours they've worked in their normal jobs.

On that basis do you not think that they should be excluded from this piece of legislation?
 

perfect11s

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On reflection I think genuinely private HGV users should once again be exempt from the tachograph laws and VOSA should concentrate on illegal and dangerous lorrys and non compliance of the operator licence laws ... I would prefer safety instead of petty rules....
 

Stateside

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I am not 100% sure but I do remember hearing Showmen (fairground people ) are exempt from the tachograph laws . If this the case then surely the horse world could go along these lines and ask for the same exemption. Showmen work all day then take down the fun fair then drive to the next site all in a day. and in summer dont have a day of for months.
 

Mike007

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[ QUOTE ]
On reflection I think genuinely private HGV users should once again be exempt from the tachograph laws and VOSA should concentrate on illegal and dangerous lorrys and non compliance of the operator licence laws ... I would prefer safety instead of petty rules....

[/ QUOTE ]

Strangely enough ,most of the illegal and dangerous lorries that I see are "private"(and I use the word loosely, as many are not really)horseboxes.
shocked.gif
 

perfect11s

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On reflection I think genuinely private HGV users should once again be exempt from the tachograph laws and VOSA should concentrate on illegal and dangerous lorrys and non compliance of the operator licence laws ... I would prefer safety instead of petty rules....

[/ QUOTE ]

Strangely enough ,most of the illegal and dangerous lorries that I see are "private"(and I use the word loosely, as many are not really)horseboxes.
shocked.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes my point exacty... but how many vosa men are brave enough to stop 2 or 3 rough looking blokes driving a hiab wagon overloaded with scrap and say .. you should have a O licence and no you are not recovery/private and yes you should have a MOT and give it a prohibition ...
smile.gif
and yes there are other genuine private HGV users apart from horse boxes, but Im also sure that a lot of horse boxes should be running with an O licence as the use is for business
blush.gif
 

LoobyLoosome

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This is a tricky one.

One the one hand I do see the obvious 'its daft' side to this, plus alot of the WTD and drivers hours regs are about 'competition' within the haulage industry, not just about safety.

However there is an element of safety to this, why should 'private' users be permitted to jump into a lorry cab (it's still a lorry) with no restriction on how much rest they've had or how knackered they are??

I think a compromise would be to adopt the same driver's hours regs (and have tachos, taking the same requisite breaks as commercial drivers, and limiting the number of hours driving time you can do in a day/week) - which IS about safety, but not do the european WTD (working time directive) bit, which dicates how many hours you can work in the week, and which I would say relates more to the haulage industry competition/fairness issue.

'Pro' or commercial equine uses should be subject to same rules as the rest of hauliers (and incidentally farmers) IMHO.
 

workerant

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Ok lets get this cleared up once and for all.

Enforcement action of Working Time Directive is only likely to happen in the case of a commercial enterprise. Therefore it is possible the legislation could affect commercial operation of horseboxes. This could also include "professional" riders transporting horses around the country. In their case their vehicles should also be subject to the Operator Licensing Regulations.

What you have to understand is that a vehicle in excess of 7.5 tonne comes into EU legislation and therefore must meet all the requirements of that legislation. This would include the proper use of tachographs whether analogue or digital.

I have managed to find all this out via various government websites and it is not difficult.
ooo.gif
 

perfect11s

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Just to let you folks know that this is also effects post april 2007 lorrys over 3.5 tons (must use the tachograph) so it is doubly important to get this sorted ...
 

_jetset_

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[ QUOTE ]
Sign our petition to campaign against EU rules that prevent owners of large horseboxes from driving them at the weekends if they have worked Monday-Friday in any type of job. For more info and to sign up visit: www.horseandhound.co.uk/vosapetition

[/ QUOTE ]

I think more people would sign this if it was an internet petition rather than one you have to download etc...
 

ROG

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I have a very good understanding of the regulations so if there are any questions I will be glad to help.
EU DRIVER REGS

VOSA DRIVER REGS

DIGI SMART CARDS

No-one has mentioned this -
In any week (Mon 0000 to Sun 2400) when driving under EU regs the driver MUST fill in a seperate record (best done on a tacho card) for EACH day in that week that they worked elsewhere.
A seperate card must be done for each day with name, date, start & finish time on each card.

Any private driving does not count for the WTD as it is not working
 

ROG

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[ QUOTE ]
Just to let you folks know that this is also effects post april 2007 lorrys over 3.5 tons (must use the tachograph) so it is doubly important to get this sorted ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Not true
This affects all vehicles with a plated weight of over 7.5 tonnes
 

perfect11s

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[ QUOTE ]
Another example of this stupid Nanny state - Please Sir, may I go to the toilet.

[/ QUOTE ] yep sadly that's what happens when we sign up to goverment by a former enemy/s we get pointless laws from petty unalected bureaucrats... we kicked our commowealth freinds in the teeth and tryed to get into bed with the french etc... why ????
 

Hollyelise89

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Well I can see both sides of the arguement here.

For the safety of the animals I can see the logic in banning potentially over-tired people from driving, but how is this any different from other type of driving at the weekend?

If i've worked mon-fri 9-5, should I then be banned from driving my car around for hours at the weekend, or taking my carvan on holiday? How about moving my motorhome or driving an HGV when moving house? Or what about taking a minibus full of scouts to camp?

This legislation would make more sense to me if it applied ONLY to those who drive HGV's as their 9-5 job, hence enforcing a manidtory period of 'rest'. I'd like to see the official legislation's phrasing as it doesn't seem to add up....
 

Darkhorse

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Can I just clarify then as I think I have been misadvised.

If I were to buy say a 5 tonne lorry for my own private use for my own horses only would I need a Taco as I have told I would
 

JoMcS

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I have a 7.5t lorry which I use for privately transporting my one horse to shows. I have had it 4 years and it has a tcho behind the speedo

It has just failed it's psv and I have been told the tacho will have to be calibrated for the retest - is this right I thought I was exempt????
 

perfect11s

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[ QUOTE ]
Can I just clarify then as I think I have been misadvised.

If I were to buy say a 5 tonne lorry for my own private use for my own horses only would I need a Taco as I have told I would

[/ QUOTE ] no not if its for personal use up to 7.5 ton
smile.gif
, unless you are running a bussiness with it.. advertising sponsors on it are also a no no as this looks like hire or reward..
 

perfect11s

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[ QUOTE ]
Help

I have a 7.5t lorry which I use for privately transporting my one horse to shows. I have had it 4 years and it has a tcho behind the speedo

It has just failed it's psv and I have been told the tacho will have to be calibrated for the retest - is this right I thought I was exempt????

[/ QUOTE ] PSV thats NI isnt it?? not sure over there.... if the test station say it needs it, you could ring the ministry up and ask... otherwise you need a truck repair place with a tacho bay
to sort it and put a new sticker on it
wink.gif
 

GeeBee45

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Simple answer NO, you do not need to use the tacho as you are exempt from the EU drivers hours rules.

The EU Regulation contains an exemption within Article 3 which basically says;vehicles that have a maximum weight (including a trailer, if drawn) not exceeding 7.5 tonnes are exempt EU drivers hours rules, provided they are used for the non commercial carriage of goods.
 

GeeBee45

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I assume you mean the vehicle has failed its' annual test because the tacho is not calibrated.

Did the person that took the vehicle to the test station complete a 'Tachograph Exemption Form?' If they did not then the testing staff will assume that the vehicle requires a fully sealed, calibrated and tested tachograph. If any of the seals or stickers are missing then the vehicle will fail its' test.

If you complete the form (being careful not to make any false statements) and present it with the vehicles' paperwork, the staff will check that the system is still sealed and originally calibrated, but that's as far as it goes.

The form is available at the test station
 
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