Habitual Biters...Are Owners at Fault???

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el_Snowflakes

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Hi all,

Just wondered what your opinions are on this. My horse is not a biter and I can honestly say she has NEVER bitten me- if she did by golly she would know about it!!!! :o However, a friend of mine has a horse who is a terrible biter. He is very unpredictable to the point where no one else can really approach him (except yard staff and he has injured some of them by biting) When she got him he didnt bite and was very cuddly- nowadays you would be taking your life into your hands putting your face anywhere near him!!!! Said owner is very OTT the way she cares for him and sings to him in a high pitched voice every night. (?) and generally treats him like a baby. he is never smacked nor told off. I have seen him knock her to the floor when he grabs owner with his teeth and still no telling off???? My theory is that the horse is completely frustrated with the OTT treatment and actually dislikes his owner. What is your theory on this type of thing??
 
Horse is herd leader and is treating owner & everyone else as lesser members of the herd hierarchy.. Owner is reenforcing this by her subordinate behaviour.. Horses need boundaries and if you watch any herd it's short sharp punishment then friends again
 
You say he never bit until she got him, so whats changed, other than the owner? Is the yard different, are the handlers different, are his field mates different ?
I think from what you describe this horse has an intense dislike of people at the moment, the question is why, if he was ok before ?
That would lead me to believe he is going into self preservation mode in his stable if this is where its happening.
you may need to stretch your net wider than the owner if hes being handled by others. The owner you describe as someone who is clearly not setting acceptable boundries regarding her horses behaviour, which opens the door to others deciding to take their own action if they need to handle him, and you dont know what theyre doing in retaliation.
I think this is a sad story and feel really sorry for the poor horse
 
Totally agree with your replies! I feel sorry for the poor horse :( he is not treated like a horse but like a baby and he actually doesnt have field mates as his owner demanded that he be seperated from the others as he was coming in with injuries (nothing serious and no more than mine has might i add) so is now in a paddock on his own. He can see others and can touch noses with one other over the fence :(
 
I agree with M-G, this horse is taking charge.

I don't agree that all biters are biting because of this. There are many reasons why a horse bites, but in this case I think M-G has it spot on.
 
elsazzo said:
he actually doesnt have field mates as his owner demanded that he be seperated from the others as he was coming in with injuries (nothing serious and no more than mine has might i add) so is now in a paddock on his own. He can see others and can touch noses with one other over the fence :(
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I think this might be the reason behind his change of behaviour ^^^^ I always feel so sorry for horse's who aren't allowed proper social interaction, they have no one to kick their heels up with and let off steam, and it must be even worse for them if the are accustomed to a herd environment.
 
M_G said:
Horse is herd leader and is treating owner & everyone else as lesser members of the herd hierarchy.. Owner is reenforcing this by her subordinate behaviour.. Horses need boundaries and if you watch any herd it's short sharp punishment then friends again
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Not necessarily! My horse bit, struck out with foreleg and kicked at every opportunity. He had (unbeknown to me at the time) gastric ulcers and chronic Sacro illiac dysfunction. He was in constant nagging pain and he wanted humans to not only listen but to leave him alone. Quite understandable when I found out.
I had my 'very experienced' horsemen friends telling me the same as you M_G that the horse needed to see me as leader and because I was scared (having been badly bitten by him drawing blood through layers of clothing) of him. Once I got to the bottom of his problems - he changed completely . I am still a bit wary of him due to what has done before, but he never bites now. Interestingly the rehab vet assured me that 99.9% of aggressive horses are like this through pain or abuse.
 
team barney said:
I think this might be the reason behind his change of behaviour ^^^^ I always feel so sorry for horse's who aren't allowed proper social interaction, they have no one to kick their heels up with and let off steam, and it must be even worse for them if the are accustomed to a herd environment.
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I agree with Team Barney. Forget herd behaviour theories until he's actually being allowed to live in a herd.
 
If the behaviour develops with the new owner then yes it probably is the owner's 'fault'. An example: my RI and I were walking down the path after turning our horses out. In front of us was one of the liveries and her cob. The cob kept 'mouthing' at her, her coat, her jeans, her hair, her arm, constantly. Owner was pushing him away and then said 'oh go on then, I'm fed up with you' and gave him a treat! And then wonders why her horse nips!! FFS!
 
elsazzo said:
Hi all,

Just wondered what your opinions are on this. My horse is not a biter and I can honestly say she has NEVER bitten me- if she did by golly she would know about it!!!! :o However, a friend of mine has a horse who is a terrible biter. He is very unpredictable to the point where no one else can really approach him (except yard staff and he has injured some of them by biting) When she got him he didnt bite and was very cuddly- nowadays you would be taking your life into your hands putting your face anywhere near him!!!! Said owner is very OTT the way she cares for him and sings to him in a high pitched voice every night. (?) and generally treats him like a baby. he is never smacked nor told off. I have seen him knock her to the floor when he grabs owner with his teeth and still no telling off???? My theory is that the horse is completely frustrated with the OTT treatment and actually dislikes his owner. What is your theory on this type of thing??
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Does she feed him treats from the hand?
 
Tinypony said:
Forget herd behaviour theories [...]
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Amen!

There are many potential causes of aggression towards - and biting of - humans. Unless someone has deliberately played dominance games, e.g. attempting to chase a horse off food and succeeding - or worse, not succeeding! - and has therefore managed to get the horse to view them as a rival or competitor, dominance is very unlikely to be the reason for biting. (Of course, people often use the word "dominant" when they really mean aggressive - but this is unhelpful when the root of the aggression lies elsewhere, as it almost always does.)

It's hard to say what has made OP's friend's horse so aggressive without seeing them together. The horse could well dislike his owner - but exactly why isn't obvious from the description. I wouldn't necessarily ascribe his behaviour to her singing or not smacking! Attempting to punish the behaviour might work or it might be disastrous. It would have to be done right (if at all) and my feeling is that she may not be best qualified to deliver effective but fair punishment. Advising her to start smacking her pony would be too random.

Lack of equine companionship and normal interactions probably doesn't help.
 
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I would say in case stated in the first post it definitely seems like a case of bad owner. Thinking they are doing the best and being cuddly and nice when that is not what the horse needs at all. Which is why his behaviour is detriorating and he is biting.

However, I do not believe it is always the owners fault. My horse has been nippy since a baby. He's never bitten anyone, but will grab you with his lips and occasionally you get caught by the teeth. He's never been fed by hand, doesn't get treats etc and I've had him now for 4 years. He's very well behaved and well mannered, but he just can't help this nipping. It's usually when he wants attention.

x
 
Not always no.

My 3 month old foal bites. Its mother retained placenta and then colicked straight after the birth so the foal really imprinted on myself and the vet. Suspect this is why it has always bitten - started off as trying to communicate that way. She is always reprimanded obviously - sometimes quite sharply but seems to lapse back. So no, not always owners fault - none of my others do it!
 
elsazzo said:
Hi all,

Just wondered what your opinions are on this. My horse is not a biter and I can honestly say she has NEVER bitten me- if she did by golly she would know about it!!!! :o However, a friend of mine has a horse who is a terrible biter. He is very unpredictable to the point where no one else can really approach him (except yard staff and he has injured some of them by biting) When she got him he didnt bite and was very cuddly- nowadays you would be taking your life into your hands putting your face anywhere near him!!!! Said owner is very OTT the way she cares for him and sings to him in a high pitched voice every night. (?) and generally treats him like a baby. he is never smacked nor told off. I have seen him knock her to the floor when he grabs owner with his teeth and still no telling off???? My theory is that the horse is completely frustrated with the OTT treatment and actually dislikes his owner. What is your theory on this type of thing??
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If my horse bit me I'd bloody well bite him back!! :D
 
debsey1 said:
If my horse bit me I'd bloody well bite him back!! :D
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That's an easy statement to make when you haven't had to deal with an aggressive horse. I would like to see you bite my 17hh WB back when he was in full aggressive mode - he would strike and kick also. I later found out that he double barrelled a groom breaking her arm in 2 places. Needless to say he wasn't like this when I viewed and tried him!
I never showed him aggression or anger in retaliation and I was right not to, because we proved he was in really desperate pain and had had enough of people. Infact the vet said that they reckon his aggression probably got worse with me because he knew I wouldn't hurt him and that I would listen and it has paid off now. He is as soft as you like.
 
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