Hackamore - should I/shouldn't I?

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JenniferB

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Ok guys, looking for some help this morning. I had a search through some old posts and got a fair few questions answered, but I'd love some input on my specific issue if anyone would like to give it!

Quick background to those of you who don't know Mr B - he's a 6yo Dutch Warmblood who came to me last summer as a very green but willing 5yo. When I tried him he was a bit funny with his mouth/head but I was willing to work away at that (got a good EDT). He also had quite a soft mouth which rubbed very easily. He often tilted his head to the side when working as well, though this has improved a lot. I tried a few different bits with varying degrees of success, EDT came out to have a look and said that he's got a very fleshy mouth and a fat tongue so I'd be best with a bit like a french link or possibly my Myler comfort snaffle to give his tongue a bit more space. I tried these without much improvement, but then with the input of some people on here came to the conclusion that possibly a Waterford might be better. After a bit of trial and error (the standard Waterford rubbed his soft mouth) I got a NS Waterford with fulmer cheeks that is a much nicer shape than the standard design.

Anyway, there was a definite improvement but I still wasn't convinced that it was quite the right bit for him - when I tack up he's grumpy about getting his bridle on, and he constantly draws his tongue back until I do up my noseband. He works well enough in it, but if I really drop the contact he'll sometimes still have a head tilting moment (following previous posts I'm going to get the dentist to double check wolf teeth next time she's in) and I just don't feel he's coming through as much as he could be. My heart tells me that he's not 100% happy and I've been racking my brains to come up with a solution and the thing that keeps popping up is to try a hackamore, but I have my reservations which is hopefully where you guys come in!

I think he may have been broken in with the liberal use of draw reins, he'll go overbent at the drop of a hat and I worry that a hackamore will encourage him to just pin his chin to his chest - can anyone enlighten me? Also, he has the rather alarming habit of broncing quite a lot - will I struggle to get his head up? And this is probably a REALLY stupid one, but can I still use my martingale? I've used a hackamore before, but for the life of me cannot remember...

Sorry for the massive rambling post, if anyone got this far and has any useful input I'd really appreciate it! I'm due the dentist in anyway, but I'm just wondering if maybe he's one of these horses that are just happier bitless (poor pony with his chubby little cheeks...).
 
hey mrs :) how are you?

im no help at all with the hackamore as its been ten years since i had ridden in one, but would it be worth phoning neue sheule (sp?) and asking if they have any suggestions? always found them quite helpful and would always listen to my rambling on about horse problems :D

hope you get it sorted soon :)
 
JB - Sorry to hijack ur post but can you tell me who you use as a EDT?As I'm looking for one!!
Sorry can't help you with the hackamore issue as no experience!! Mr Shouty man not got an opinion?? LOL
Good Luck :)
 
I have a WB with a fat tongue and really fleshy lips and cheeks. He was always unhappy in his mouth and I gave the hackamore a go - I ended up jumping in one for quite a few seasons. I found he was much happier than in a bit, but couldn't really get the hackamore right - we used a german hackamore with sheepskin noseband and a curb chain and he found it a little too strong. A leather curb didn't get enought response from him and I ended up putting some vet wrap around the curb chain, which seemed to be the best combination. He didn't respond enough to an english hackamore - it was like riding him in a headcollar.

In the end, it was a new EDT that suggested it could infact be a noseband problem - he has such fleshy cheeks that any noseband fastening around them causes them to press on his teeth and rub. He had small red ulcers on the inside of his cheeks where the noseband (just a loose cavesson, not even a crank one) had caused them to rub on his teeth (no sharp edges on teeth either).

So we took off the noseband and then had the trouble of finding a bit that might suit (I wanted to do some dressage again, so had to find one). After trying all sorts, including a full cheek NS waterford, a friend suggested a NS verbindend in the 12mm mouthpiece. The thinnest mouthpiece meant it fitted comfortably in his mouth (not much room with such big lips and a massive tongue) and the bend of the arm of the bit meant it gave his tongue room and didn't put pressure on it. Tried that and it was 1000 times better. Still the occassional resistance, but like nothing we'd had before.

Had to use a noseband for dressage obviously, so went with a loose drop as it doesn't fasten over his cheeks. 100% happier horse.

Still use the hackamore occassionally for exciting or fast work, but tend to pop it on as well as the snaffle with a sliphead and use with 2 reins as I can't find a stronger bit that he is happy in.

I have used the CS tongue saver as it has a similar shaped mouth piece, and it is almost as good. Slightly wider mouthpiece so takes up a little more room in his mouth.
 
Kez I'll maybe give them a try, I just worry that I'll end up with another expensive bit that he's not happy with though. I'll show you his mouth next time we're at the same show - you wouldn't believe how fleshy it is lol!

FC have PM'd you, shouty man is not at my disposal this week but will catch him at the weekend!

Zoon that's really helpful thank you, real food for thought. Will have a chat with the EDT when she's in to see what she thinks and mention what you've said. I'm a bit worried about having no control, but at the same time I wonder if a lot of my issues stem from him being unhappy in the mouth. Might get on to the Bit Bank and hire one of those thin bits for a couple of weeks and see where we go from there!
 
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I found my seat improved ten fold after riding in the hackamore - I was scared of using my hands as I was also a bit worried, especially as he was a little over sensitive in it at first with the curb chain, so rode mainly from my seat which I should have been doing anyway!

First time I rode him in it, I went in the indoor school at a nice quiet time and had a walk and little trot around. It wasn't just me getting used to it, he'd never worn one before. Progressed from there really, doing a little more at a time in it until we were both confident with it. Real test was when soemthing spooked him and a friends horse out hacking and they both bolted. I pulled him up easily and calmly in the hackamore with a few gentle squeezed and my new more effective seat!

Maybe pop one on with a sliphead and have your normal bit in (take your noseband off obviously) Then you can have the bit there as a backup with reins tied on neck? Just until you get your confidence with the hackamore?

The only hackamore issue I had was the steering, but that would be more that I'd become a little lazy with my seat and using my hands too much. As soon as I started riding from my seat more, as I couldn't have a traditional contact with the hackamore, that issue was resolved.
 
Steering is one of my worries - it's definitely getting better and I've been working hard to get him working off my leg but it's not perfect yet! I've ridden in a hackamore before, but it was a long time ago. I think I'll be really paranoid about being too hard on him with the curb action, but if it improves my seat it can only be a good thing lol and I'll start off with it loose and see how it goes. Did you use a martingale or is it not necessary?x
 
I started to use one in my old boy when he started eventing again...

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He was always a very 'closed' horse through his back which came out in his unhappiness to accept a bit. His first choice was always to hollow to a fence, then because he was in a negative position he would find it difficult to make a correct shape over a fence. I tried him in a hackamore and found that he was softer in my hand (although he had always hated any pole pressure hence you can see from the pic i have a neoprene pole guard) and came to a fence in a very positive relaxed state through his back which then allowed him to jump properly.

I'd say, school him first in his normal tack to get the 'edge' off him if he can be sharp then stick a neck strap on and try your hackamore. I used to use a martigale when mine had a bit in because he would stick his head up, but he never did this with a hackamore so i never used one. Good Luck :)
 
JenniferB said:
Steering is one of my worries - it's definitely getting better and I've been working hard to get him working off my leg but it's not perfect yet! I've ridden in a hackamore before, but it was a long time ago. I think I'll be really paranoid about being too hard on him with the curb action, but if it improves my seat it can only be a good thing lol and I'll start off with it loose and see how it goes. Did you use a martingale or is it not necessary?x
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Mine never needs a martingale so didn't use one. Don't see how a runnign martingale on a hackamore would be any different from one on a bitted bridle - it'll just apply pressure to the nose rather than the mouth when the martingale comes in to play. he may be sticking his head up as he's unhappy in the mouth though, so may not be needed with the hackamore
 
Lisamd - your pony looks V smart, wouldn't like your shampoo bills though! What you say about yours being a bit closed through the back is exactly the way B feels - there's plenty there, but I just think he's hanging off because he's not loving his bit.

Lisamd & Zoon that was kind of what I thought - any head throwing he does is most likely attributed to his mouth so a martingale is probably totally unneccessary. It'll look a bit odd to begin with I think - as a would be showjumper I like my tack lol... Might get an elasticated breastgirth, will give me something to hang on to and break up the space too!
 
Quick update for those who took the time to offer help and advice!

Gave it a shot last night - think I confused him just a little... I started off very quietly on a long rein and just mooched a bit. Immediately he seemed a lot more relaxed and one of the other liveries pointed out that he was really stretching in his walk which is not really like him! Ventured forth into trot - steering went to pot but after a couple of minutes and an impromptu three laps of the school in canter he settled into his work fairly well. Steering improved a lot, brakes a bit iffy (pretty sure I just had it too loose - thought I'd be better to start off really loose in case he over-reacted). He had a few little moments when it was almost like he had a bit of brain freeze - he came right back at me and kind of tried to look round at me - poor confuddled pony! However, I'm pleased to report that we only had one buck which I managed to contain, and by the end of the session he was really powering on in a fair outline. Will try again tomorrow (day off today) with the curb strap a wee touch tighter and see how we get on - watch this space...
 
sounds like good progress :)

hmmm getting out to shows - whats that again? lol :D let me know if your heading anywhere now the snow has gone for now we might be able to start getting somewhere!
 
Glad it went well! Are you using an english or a german? (that sounds odd!) The german hackamore gives you a bit more scope for playing - you can put a leather, elastic or chain curb on, but it is hard to find any but leather to go on an english (there is a seller on ebay that does chain curbs for english hackamores. Just be aware that the longer shanks on a german mean it will be harsher than the english for a given pressure on the reins. As always, it is only as harsh as the hands!

I always have a hunting breastplate on my lad minus the martingale attachment so I have something to grab in an emergency. I actually prefer to hold on to the straps that go to the d rings on the saddle rather than the neck strap as they are closer to your hands and you don't have to rotate your hand as much - means you have some sort of control when said horse has a hissy fit!
 
Kez - I've given up on the idea of the intro this weekend, going to just work away quietly until the dentist has been at least I think. Will now aim for the February senior show at Rowallan, but the P2P all kicks off in the next few weeks so we'll be really busy with that!

Zoon - I'm using an English. Don't have access to a German at the moment and I was hoping not to need quite as much as that. Will just be a bit trial and error I think, might try and get a hold of one of those NS bits you mentioned after the dentist has had a good look to make sure there's nothing sinister going on.

Babybear - fingers crossed this makes a difference - he was honestly moving like a different horse last night. Are you going to the RC training tomorrow?
 
JenniferB said:
Babybear - fingers crossed this makes a difference - he was honestly moving like a different horse last night. Are you going to the RC training tomorrow?
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I'm going to watch and see if I can learn anything - my fat pony is not in any state to a)do any exercise other than working his jaw muscles or b)be seen in public - he's incredibly hairy and covered in mud after being chucked out naked yesterday!
 
Jack also has a fleshy tongue and small mouth so we jump him in a very narrow NS snaffle and he is happy in this. He's not at all strong though so I'm not sure if going for a narrow mouthpiece with the extra brakes that would give could be enough? We have a jumping pony who had similar issues and she was just plain strong and fussy. We ended up having Equiport make a nathe straight bar american gag which worked better than anything else we tried and had the advantage of being kind to the ultra sensitive skin around her mouth.

FlyingCoo - you can't be too far from us and we use Brisn Smith for teeth. Always found him excellent.
 
Definetly try a hackamore!

I compete my mare BS in a hackamore. I had a similar problem with head tossing etc.

I tried endless amounts of bits and she was just never happy, she then started to go bridle lame ( a form of head bobbing that makes her look lame when shes actually not!)

Changing to the hackamore was the best thing i ever done.
Oh and she bucks alot at shows through excitement and iv never had a problem getting her head back up!!!

Feel free to check her out in action at www.youtube.co.uk/maiziemoomoo

:-)

xx
 
Not much to add apart from if you want i have a german hackamore that has never ever been used that you can have as its just taking up room in my tackroom!!!
Q
 
I rode handy for a while in a hackamore. He went lovely, really responsive and we even jumped in it. Was fine and we hacked out in it, even managing to canter across fields in it. Then after a while he became very heavy in it (like a dead weight) so we changed to a neue schule bit and his grackle. I still have it and would use it again.
 
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