Hacking/competing a grumpy sod

Kenzo

Kenzo

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Don't suppose there is many of you here with this problem, it's not something I've experienced in the past with any other horses hence why I'm not too sure how to go about the problem with out making it worse.

How do you teach or discipline a sensitive youngster not to kick out at other horses when your hacking out (as in hacking out with your fellow liveries) not horses that happen to pass by.

It's important that goes out with others due to his age and its always nice to ride side by side (where safe) and chat to your friends, but if I take him out, I’ve got to keep right at the back and quite rightly so but its not much fun, you feel like an outcast :(

Now if I cracked him once with the crop when he lashes out, I know for a fact he’d get into even more of a rage, to him, he wouldn’t understand why I was hitting him, to which he’d flip out and throw me off (which is not something I want purely for the fact that he’d run off), it would actually upset him even more and put him off from going out (this is his ultra sensitive side).

He used to do this in the school (to the horses at the other side of the school fence) and as advised I'd give him a crack everytime the ears went back and his back came up ready to kick out, but this wound him up even more and he'd really get his knickers in twist, getting any work out of him then was out of the question and he just turned against you, anyway I found ignoring it and riding him on was the only thing that did the trick, now he doesnt do it...well not as yet.

It's been suggested that he receives a sharp crack from the person on other horse, but I can’t risk him doing this, he could catch the riders leg and I don’t want to put either the rider or their horse at risk of being kicked, they'd have to be close enough to crack him one when he starts which would mean they would be near enough receive a kick, so I can see logic but it would be too dangerous, so how do you go about sorting the problem, he's got to learn that its not acceptable to do this.

At this rate I won’t even be able to compete him, there is no way I’d risk taking him in a collecting ring, even quiet warm up ring could be a risky, although I don’t think he’d act this way towards strange horses (geldings) although I’d have a different problem completely with mares.

Any other bright ideas?
 
How about "biting" him when he does it? That is what another horse in the field would do. Now obviously you can't actually bite him, so try grabing a handful of flesh on his neck and twisting it to get a similar effect. Hopefully it would be a reprimand in a way that he understands but that he doesn't associate with a ridden aid (like the whip).

I've not tried it in these circumstances but it might be worth a go.......
 
Katt said:
How about "biting" him when he does it? That is what another horse in the field would do. Now obviously you can't actually bite him, so try grabing a handful of flesh on his neck and twisting it to get a similar effect. Hopefully it would be a reprimand in a way that he understands but that he doesn't associate with a ridden aid (like the whip).

I've not tried it in these circumstances but it might be worth a go.......
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lol I had vissions of me having to crouch forward into some kind of jumping position and sinking my teeth into a crest of fluffy silver mane :D

On a serious note, yes I see what you mean, that could be a good idea.

Thank you Katt
 
One of mine is like this, very very grumpy in the school with other horses - this has gradually got better as I have done more of it, I have to be very careful, watch where I am going and keep him well between leg and hand, with a growly 'don't!' if he looked likely to react (ears go well back and head up as a warning)

I also needed assistance hacking for a long time before we could go it alone, and same thing here really (he will still try it on hacking) I started by riding slightly behind the other horse (with my horses head at the other riders knee so if he did kick out he wouldn;t make contact. Now we go alongside and whenhe looks grumpy I flex head towards the other horse and put that leg on to push his bum away and growl. DON'T!! (you nasty little bugger etc etc)

It does work. I would never smack him for it, or rather I would if it was my other horse but this one would probably have me off in a flash (never ever use a whip with him) I find it really hard as I have never had something with such bad manners before!
 
Kenzo said:
lol I had vissions of me having to crouch forward into some kind of jumping position and sinking my teeth into a crest of fluffy silver mane :D
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Lol.....thats the exact same picture that came into my head!!!

On a more serious note....i have heard this a couple of times before from different people so it sounds like it could be worth a go.

Agree that it would probably be too dangerous for another person to give your horse a smack if it kicked out at them....and im not sure how many volunteers you may get for that job!

Good luck and fingers crossed you get it sorted out.
 
No problem, hope it helps - it isn't really my tip though to be honest, one offered to hubby by the instructor who trained him for his stage one, and intended for use on the ground.....
 
I guess if he is getting better in the school, it may come with time?
I would avoid any warm up rings for a long time tbh - one bad expereince at this stage could leave you with a serious ingrained problem - plus the obvious risk to other horses.
I agree with the imitation biting thing - and also with the suggestion that the other rider wacks him as to him it would appear the other horse is telling him off although can equally see this backfiring, possibly not worth the risk.
Does he ever threaten to kick you?his stable etc? or just other horses? what about in the field?
I guess the safest option is to slowly build up other horses around him, but this could take a long time and may not even work....i guess it depends if its a defensive insecure kick out, or a nasty kick out?sorry not much help!!!
 
Monty was a dominant chap in hand. I have to admit he would NEVER kick when being ridden but he was a pain in the arse around feeding time. He would actually kick out at me occassionally and would constantly swing his legs in a threatening manner.

I know it's not the same situation but 'biting' him cured this almost completely. I would pinch him on the neck or flanks and growl a firm 'NO' at the same time. He would sulk a bit afterwards but he became alot easier to handle and much more submissive. He too was sensitive so a crack on the arse would generally just goad him into a battle........fisticuffs with a 17hh tb is not a plan!
 
Brandy said:
One of mine is like this, very very grumpy in the school with other horses - this has gradually got better as I have done more of it, I have to be very careful, watch where I am going and keep him well between leg and hand, with a growly 'don't!' if he looked likely to react (ears go well back and head up as a warning)

I also needed assistance hacking for a long time before we could go it alone, and same thing here really (he will still try it on hacking) I started by riding slightly behind the other horse (with my horses head at the other riders knee so if he did kick out he wouldn;t make contact. Now we go alongside and whenhe looks grumpy I flex head towards the other horse and put that leg on to push his bum away and growl. DON'T!! (you nasty little bugger etc etc)



It does work. I would never smack him for it, or rather I would if it was my other horse but this one would probably have me off in a flash (never ever use a whip with him) I find it really hard as I have never had something with such bad manners before!
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Yes, same here (with riding in the school)

Good point point about gradually building up to going at the side, only thing is his front end is about as his back end, however he doesnt try anything when right at the back (as in tucked in behind the bottom).

Thanks
 
hannah87 said:
I guess if he is getting better in the school, it may come with time?
I would avoid any warm up rings for a long time tbh - one bad expereince at this stage could leave you with a serious ingrained problem - plus the obvious risk to other horses.
I agree with the imitation biting thing - and also with the suggestion that the other rider wacks him as to him it would appear the other horse is telling him off although can equally see this backfiring, possibly not worth the risk.
Does he ever threaten to kick you?his stable etc? or just other horses? what about in the field?
I guess the safest option is to slowly build up other horses around him, but this could take a long time and may not even work....i guess it depends if its a defensive insecure kick out, or a nasty kick out?sorry not much help!!!
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Oh yes I agree, I would never take if he was cause any form of nusance or danger to anyone.

No he doesnt threaten to kick me or show any aggression towards me, indeed he has done in the past (going back years ago as a 2-3yr old) but that will of been due to lack of handling at a very young age and not wanting some human suddenly coming along and teaching him what he can and can't do, I had a encounters with him in the school that were a little two close for comfort, being charged at his baring teeth and swinging around to double barrell was not my idea of fun, now he's my best friend, not sure if thats part of the problem as he's very protective and goes for any horse that comes near me....gone from one extreme to another. :(

I think the problem is he knows he understands I his keeper, he knows which side his bread's buttered on etc and he knows I'm his master, but 'master' one goes out of the window when other horses are about, then he because boss.
 
Have you tried using something like RigCalm? I don't have any experience of it, but know that Global Herbs' calmers seem to work well. Might be worth a try short term to see if maybe you can break the habit it has become?
 
oofadoofa said:
Have you tried using something like RigCalm? I don't have any experience of it, but know that Global Herbs' calmers seem to work well. Might be worth a try short term to see if maybe you can break the habit it has become?
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Yes he's actually on it at the moment, he's still on his first tub though, been on it for approx 3 weeks, apparently it takes a while for it to kick in so I'm told, I've not actually seen any difference in him yet, but then I didnt really see any clear difference when he as the HRT, to be fair I think he's that type of horse anyway (bossy nature with other horses) but obviously his riggyness will won't help the situation.

I found him better on the Herbal Tranquil (but that contains valarian) and didnt want to mix that with the above because I wanted to fair trail the Global Herbs Rig Calm obviously.

But thanks for the suggestion though.
 
Hmmm, not sure what else you could try then?

Do you have any fields, etc that you could ride around with another horse, so you ride along side by side but with a big gap between you and then gradually get closer together? When I used to work at a breaking/point to point yard I remember having a particularly bulshy gelding who was a bit of a pain towards other horses and we used to work him fairly hard so he was tired and then ride him alongside another horse in a field so he didn't feel "closed in". Something like that might be worth a try?
 
oofadoofa said:
Hmmm, not sure what else you could try then?

Do you have any fields, etc that you could ride around with another horse, so you ride along side by side but with a big gap between you and then gradually get closer together? When I used to work at a breaking/point to point yard I remember having a particularly bulshy gelding who was a bit of a pain towards other horses and we used to work him fairly hard so he was tired and then ride him alongside another horse in a field so he didn't feel "closed in". Something like that might be worth a try?
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Yes I like your thinking, we did have the grass fields at the livery yard but now we have to keep of them because there being grown for hay (well YO has shut the gate so I recon thats now a hint to keep off) we do have the stewardships to ride on but like you say, its not really wide enough, what with dyke on one side and crops in the other, but I can see where your coming from though, I do think that possibly could the answer....if I had somewhere to do it, perhaps our YO has done his cut, I'll try that.
Thanks
 
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