Hacking on farmland for payment.

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Orangehorse

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Who pays for hacking for payment to local farmers?

I know all about the TROT toll-ride scheme, but I would like to know if there are individual farmers who have set up Pay as You Ride operations.

There is someone local to us, but he is very wary about being sued and liability in general as a relation is a lawyer and has suggested it isn't a good idea. Since the route suggested would link some bridlepaths as well as offering a longer ride round we are keen to help and get it off the ground.
 
I don't think insurance waiver forms are worth much in the UK but over here I allow anyone to ride their horses over my farm and also to have full use of our forest trails providing they have signed the waiver forms and are members of our Equestrian Federation. I take no payment, I just like the trails to be used and as my farm is strategically located allowing riders to make full use of the huge trail network around here, so loads of riders do use them frequently.

Could you look into insurance waivers?
 
I asked a local arable farmer if I could ride (walk) my young horse round his wide grass headlands, to begin his fittening work. Lovely farmer said "Aye, lass, just mind they badgers don't scare your nice horse. They jump out sudden, like." So we watched out for jumping badgers and walked for miles off road for a month, and enjoyed every minute.
At Christmas, I took him a good single malt, his wife a nice bottle of wine and a box of doggie treats for their collie! He appeared genuinely delighted with this small gift and said I could carry on riding round his headlands as much as I wanted to, so I did! He and his wife and dog graciously accepted a gift at Easter and Christmas every year until we left the area some years later.
I thought he would not have responded positively if I offered money with my request. I think he was better pleased to be asked politely and respectfully.
It was quite a while ago: perhaps farmers now prefer money, if they can be sure their liabilities are very low.
 
Trouble we have is our payments are partially reliant on leaving grass tracks, but them not being used. So, as soon as it is wet enough to leave a hoofprint even I can't ride on it.
 
The farm tracks I ride on are on some sceme or other but as long as i ride within 3 meters of the crop side i am OK. I too take gifts to my friendly farmer to show my appreciation.
 
Burmilla said:
I asked a local arable farmer if I could ride (walk) my young horse round his wide grass headlands, to begin his fittening work. Lovely farmer said "Aye, lass, just mind they badgers don't scare your nice horse. They jump out sudden, like." So we watched out for jumping badgers and walked for miles off road for a month, and enjoyed every minute.
At Christmas, I took him a good single malt, his wife a nice bottle of wine and a box of doggie treats for their collie! He appeared genuinely delighted with this small gift and said I could carry on riding round his headlands as much as I wanted to, so I did! He and his wife and dog graciously accepted a gift at Easter and Christmas every year until we left the area some years later.
I thought he would not have responded positively if I offered money with my request. I think he was better pleased to be asked politely and respectfully.
It was quite a while ago: perhaps farmers now prefer money, if they can be sure their liabilities are very low.
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I have nothing to say on the subject...

But ^^^^ made me smile :) how lovely you must be!

Ax
 
So, no one does in other words. The idea was to be a money making idea, which the farmer proposed where the riders paid to go round his farm.

The not riding on grass headlands only applies if the farm is in certain environmental schemes and the toll rides organisation has been allowed to simply increase the width of the grass headlands, so giving enough room for environment scheme and horses. This is a convenient excuse for farmers not wanting riders to use the headlands, unless it is a VERY sensitive environmental scheme in which case even the landowner can't ride on it.

I thought there were a few permit schemes around the country, run by estates and individuals. There are plenty of permit schemes run by the Forestry Commission and the Woodland Trust, but different rules apply.
 
Great idea, I’d willingly pay to keep off roads but where I am 90% of grass margins went when the basic Defra scheme ended in September. Fields are all ploughed right up to hedges, disappointing as a rider and wildlife lover which will no doubt suffer with the sudden loss of habitat.

I believe there’s one private scheme reasonably near which is circa £200 per year.
 
Clodagh said:
Trouble we have is our payments are partially reliant on leaving grass tracks, but them not being used. So, as soon as it is wet enough to leave a hoofprint even I can't ride on it.
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This is how it is where I keep my horse, we are not technically meant to be on the headlands as they are just for wildlife, but provided we only go on when it is dry we seem to be able to get away with it ok. Farmer is more than happy for clients to ride round but not just anyone from off site. We have a vested interest in respecting his rules, outsiders don't.
 
Orangehorse said:
So, no one does in other words. The idea was to be a money making idea, which the farmer proposed where the riders paid to go round his farm.

The not riding on grass headlands only applies if the farm is in certain environmental schemes and the toll rides organisation has been allowed to simply increase the width of the grass headlands, so giving enough room for environment scheme and horses. This is a convenient excuse for farmers not wanting riders to use the headlands, unless it is a VERY sensitive environmental scheme in which case even the landowner can't ride on it.

I thought there were a few permit schemes around the country, run by estates and individuals. There are plenty of permit schemes run by the Forestry Commission and the Woodland Trust, but different rules apply.
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It depends really. I advise on stewardship schemes and grass margins are only to be left if they are entered into ELS.

Putting permissive access routes through farmland can actually be added into a farmer's HLS claim and the financial incentives through this have opened up wide areas of Nottinghamshire to horses. It will also be interesting to see how permissive access is dealt with under proposed CAP reforms - as the emphasis is on greening there may well be more incentive to open up more access to horses.

From a liability POV it is a headache - most people apply a good amount of common sense to the situation and farming and riding can cohabit in complete harmony. Sadly I speak from experience - we had a lady trespass around some stubble - her horse fell in a drainage trench whilst they were galloping and had to be PTS - she did take legal action against and luckily we weren't found to be liable due to the lengths we go to, to minimise dangers. Since then it has highlighted the need to be more vigilant with trespassers and those we previously allowed to ride freely around.

It is sad because we have some lovely rides around the farms and I really am very grateful I can ride around them - but you have to understand that with the amount of heath and safety farmers have to conform to anyway, the risk increases greatly when permits and such are granted.
 
Think its a slippery slope. You pay to go on one piece of land then again for another and another, before long your forking out hundreds of pounds for what the walkers and cyclists get for nothing. I gave up TROT when there were hardly any rides and the nearest one meant I had to ring up first every time I wanted to go out in case it was too muddy, they had a shoot on....and various other excuses.
 
Unfortunately the Permitted Bridlepath scheme is no longer offered, since the change of government. It was only when part of the Higher Level anyway. We have a couple round here, one in particular that I use a lot and it is due to come to an end in 2016 so I am worried about what will happen then. There is nothing to stop a farmer ploughing it all up again.

It is going back in history now, but as a BHS committee member I made a big fuss with DEFRA and any odd ministry person I came across to say I thought the Higher Level scheme was flawed and better use could be made of the money offered to farmers for riding tracks and linking bridlepaths to avoid bad roads. The money offered was good for a farmer. But no luck and they carried on with their scheme. It meant that some permissive bridlepaths have been really well used, yet others never saw a hoofprint as they were isolated and people never rode there and they weren't long enough or offered parking to make it worthwhile to box out.


Lets hope the new CAP scheme includes horse riding.

But it doesn't answer my original question!
 
Thanks, but it isn't the same, that is a business with a cross country course and other equestrian facilities.

The farmer is just a farmer with some land he is willing to let riders use,for payment but basically wants to keep the money for himself, rather than go through the toll ride scheme.

Jinglejoys, I know you don't like toll rides, but there are hundreds of people who do, and who are very grateful and appreciative of the chance to ride away from traffic and don't mind if occasionally the routes have to be closed for shooting or if wet weather would churn up the ground to make it difficult to use later in the year. I was told as a young rider not to use bridlepaths in winter as that damaged the ground too much and although traffic levels and numbers of riders have changed, winter weather has not!
 
I used to pay an estate owner £60pa to ride on the estate. sorta cheeky from him being in Scotland as we have a right to roam but they were pretty rides and he'd keep them maintained (which is what he claimed the money was for which is fair enough), plus he didn't encourage riders from local livery yards so they were nice and quiet. I never questioned liability and wouldn't.
 
Orangehorse said:
Unfortunately the Permitted Bridlepath scheme is no longer offered, since the change of government. It was only when part of the Higher Level anyway. We have a couple round here, one in particular that I use a lot and it is due to come to an end in 2016 so I am worried about what will happen then. There is nothing to stop a farmer ploughing it all up again.

It is going back in history now, but as a BHS committee member I made a big fuss with DEFRA and any odd ministry person I came across to say I thought the Higher Level scheme was flawed and better use could be made of the money offered to farmers for riding tracks and linking bridlepaths to avoid bad roads. The money offered was good for a farmer. But no luck and they carried on with their scheme. It meant that some permissive bridlepaths have been really well used, yet others never saw a hoofprint as they were isolated and people never rode there and they weren't long enough or offered parking to make it worthwhile to box out.


Lets hope the new CAP scheme includes horse riding.

But it doesn't answer my original question!
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The whole point is it being incentivised - no one is going to take land out of production for nothing - that doesn't make business sense. The whole draw of it is that they can be ploughed up at the end of their lifetime - otherwise it's just agreeing to another bridle way for people to abuse. There are lots of farmers offering permit schemes but they are difficult to police - the general problem is that you tell A she is allowed to ride over B and C fields and then X Y and Z decide to ride over D E F G and even H!
 
Only too true, sadly.

I am on both sides of the fence and sometimes I am so disgusted at the behaviour of some riders that I feel I want to give up bridlepath work entirely, yet other riders are so nice and so grateful when they can enjoy extra riding. For a farmer there is nothing good about having a bridlepath on their land, so it seems a shame that no-one can come up with a scheme to keep everyone happy. The nearest that came was the Permissive Bridlepath scheme which is sadly now defunct.
 
I have paid a farmer in the past, it was £100 for the year to ride on the perimeter of one field. It was a 10 acre hay field and I just used one line, that made a track less than 1 ft wide. I was surprised it was so narrow, but my horse must move quite close!

The permission was just for me, the gate was locked and I had a key. It was a boon worth £100 for me to get some fitness work into my eventer as there is nowhere else to canter.
 
I have paid a farmer in the past, it was £100 for the year to ride on the perimeter of one field. It was a 10 acre hay field and I just used one line, that made a track less than 1 ft wide. I was surprised it was so narrow, but my horse must move quite close!

The permission was just for me, the gate was locked and I had a key. It was a boon worth £100 for me to get some fitness work into my eventer as there is nowhere else to canter.
 
I pay £60 per year to ride in a section of privately owned National Forest land. The area is open free of charge to walkers (and even has a small car park for their convenience!) but rider access is restricted to permit holders only. Users have to sign waiver forms which I assume means they accept that they're riding at their own risk. To be fair, it's such a generous area and accessible directly from the yard, that I think it's well worth the cost.
 
Our yard pay a fee to our local farmer that everyone who wants to ride on the set aside contributes to. We have few bridle paths near us which is a shame, but this arrangement is well managed by the YO & the farmer. If the weather is bad and the ground not suitable, we don't ride on it which is perfectly fair, it works really well and everyone at the yard respects the rules that come with it.
 
very basically in most cases the farmers leave a 3m wide buffer around the edge of their fields, this is called an ELS Strip and can not be ridden or driven on, it should be topped every 3 years. If they wanted to put in a toll route they would have to extend this buffer by 2 to 3m into the field. This means the crop they remove and their up in insurance would have to be fully compensated by the toll you pay. If the RPA come along and see there are hoof prints in their ELS crop the farmer can lose up to 25% of his farm wide subsidy payment. that's thousands of pounds!
 
A local farmer in our village allows this- he has sheep pasture/hay fields and charges £5 per week per horse for unlimited access. He closes the access from November to march.
 
Tinsel Trouble said:
very basically in most cases the farmers leave a 3m wide buffer around the edge of their fields, this is called an ELS Strip and can not be ridden or driven on, it should be topped every 3 years. If they wanted to put in a toll route they would have to extend this buffer by 2 to 3m into the field. This means the crop they remove and their up in insurance would have to be fully compensated by the toll you pay. If the RPA come along and see there are hoof prints in their ELS crop the farmer can lose up to 25% of his farm wide subsidy payment. that's thousands of pounds!
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Never heard of this happening with TROT - they have the help and advice of DEFRA people too who really helped sort the ELS
thing when it was introduced, to enable members to carry on riding their routes.

But thanks, people, it seems that some people get on well with this. Encouraging.
 
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