Half Pass???

[MissDeMeena]

My dressage trainer is Carl Hester and he comes in book form, i read him each night before i go to bed

Anyway, last nights lesson was Half Pass...
Carl basically said that half pass is travers only moving across the diagonal instead of down the long side....
Then in another paragraph he said that the first couple of strides before the half pass, you want to set it up with a stride or two of shoulder-in, so as not to let the quarters lead...

Now i'm confused...

 

[jellybaby]

I can see the logic in the half pass exercise, but for an eventer, wouldn't a few steps of Shoulder in, then a 10 m circle then into half pass be easier for an eventer.....SI to HP would stop the quarter lead issue developing, but I always think its bit kefuffle - ish for a horse who is learning, so always do the circle before hand.

JB xx

 

[Louise_88]

Thats right, the shoulders need to be leading. i always get the shoulders going in the direction of where you want to end up and then encourage the quarters along so that you create the right bend and dont end up with the quarters leading. So you dont ask the horse to come across until the shoulders are positioned so i suppose that is shoulder in?
Sorry not fantastic at explaining myself, i'm never going to make an instructer but i know what i mean lol.

 

[MissDeMeena]

Your talking to someone with not just a horse that can't do it, but a rider who hasn't really a clue of what's ment to be going on...
I take it just riding travers and going sideways is not the way to do it???
please no technical talk, it'll go straight over my head??

 

[Baydale]

And I thought I was the only saddo that did that?

I haven't got the book but are there not any pictures to demonstrate it?

I think if you imagine riding shoulder in coming out of the corner onto the long side, then at the quarter marker move the forehand onto the diagonal to go into half pass. If you can picture pointing the head and forehand towards the other quarter marker and them staying on the diagonal line, then the quarters should follow (assuming the horse stays around your inside leg). Clear as mud?

Where's Partoow, Bananaman, or any of the other dressage divas when you need them?

 

[Louise_88]

Thanks Baydale that is what i was trying to put across but i just end up babbling and making no sense.

 

[Baydale]

I think the important bit is to keep the forehand in advance of the quarters whilst maintaining the bend around your inside leg (which to me is like patting your head and rubbing your tummy!)

Please don't tell me this is in the two star test at Houghton?

 

[Baydale]

I think travers is too easy to ride in a crab-like way without feeling obviously wrong, whereas half pass shows up your mistakes more.

MdM perhaps riding it from the quarter marker to D or G with less angle is an easier way to start: 10m circle in the corner to get the right bend would help.

 

[Tempi]

Before starting halfpas you need to have an established quarters in in trot and canter on the straight and on a circle. Another good excerise is to trot across the long diagonal and when you get to x ask for quarters in the rest of the way across.

When you set up the half pass ride deep into the corner/turn (if its off the centre line) at this point the shoulders should be slightly infront of the hind quarters. Then look up to where you are aiming, have the shoulders slightly infront for the first stride, ride one straight stride then bring the quarters over. In Carls book he says that the quarters should be slightly leading, which is what i have always been told aswell. In a demo i watched at the Winters on friday evening John Lassiter said that the quarters should lead in halfpass also - however ive just done a quick google and most of the info ive found on it says forehand leading. Both my trainers (Andrew Gould and Emile Faurie) tell me the horse should be basically straight, flexed round the leg in the direction you are going and swinging forwards, sideways and through.

The main aim is to have the suppleness around your inside/outside leg (depending on which how you are doing the halfpass). The horses tempo shouldnt alter and there shouldnt be too much bend in the neck, more through the body - the horse should swing forwards and sideways.

 

[MissDeMeena]

LOL... no it's not at Houghton... but i'm planning an Adv. at some point, including some AI's and there's bound to be some half pass!!
I'm so backward with dressage i have to totally be able to imagion it in my head first... and that takes me alot of time...

 

[Tierra]

Half pass is indeed essentially travers ridden along the whole or half diagonal.

With the half pass, the horse has to be bent around the riders inside leg and flexed into the direction you're travelling.

The forehand has to lead for the half pass to be correct. This is why a lot of people ride the halfpass from the shoulder in or shoulder fore - you're already establishing the correct flexion and bend to begin the movement.

Being able to mark a line on the diagonal that you intend to ride helps enormously. The front legs should stay on that diagonal.

Once your bend and flexion is established (which as Carl writes, is best done from the shoulder in, then you're essentially just asking the horse to travel laterally up the diagonal line - hence you apply the leg aids for the travers).

Sitting into the movement helps a lot. However you have to ensure that you are merely sitting into it and not slinging your weight around to try and use that to force the lateral movement. You'll see many riders, when just learning half pass, almost throw their weight from left to right trying to force the horse over with their weight. Not only is this incorrect, its ugly and not pleasant for the horse ;p

So yea! Start with shoulder in. This will give you the correct flexion and bend. Also, it will be positioning the shoulders off the track which puts them in the correct place for that first stride off the diagonal.

When you hit the point you intend to half pass across, keep the flexion and bend you had from the shoulder in, sit slightly to the inside to encourage the movement and apply the outside leg back, behind the girth to ask for the quarters to ask for the lateral movement. Keep focused on keeping the forelegs on your line, dont ask for so much bend that the hind quarters start to lead. This will create basically a banana shape pivoting around your inside leg - not good but also a very common mistake!

Half pass is a lot about the preparatory work imo. It requires a fairly gymnasticised horsey to produce it correctly.

At PSG level, your angle is shallower moving from E to G. In GP, the degree of angle is greater and is usually ridden across the short diagonal - e.g V to R.

I think the thing with half pass is to break down what you're asking and not over complicate it.

When you look at the actual steps...

1) You want the horse bent in the direction you're moving. This is created through preparatory work in shoulder in

2) You want to move across a diagonal line keeping the shoulders and forelegs leading. Maintain that shoulder in type flexion.

3) You want to be travelling sideways. On a normal diagonal line, you'd turn the whole horse across it and travel straight. Here you dont.. only the front legs stay on that line. The rest is performed as a lateral movement. That requires putting the outside leg behind the girth to ask for the lateral movement.

Dont let the horse banana around you. Dont let the hind legs dart off ahead and the front lag behind. Dont try and throw your weight around in the saddle in any attempt to push the horse over.

Common problems:-

1) You lose the bend after a couple of strides into the half pass. This is usually indicate a lack of gymnasticising. If a horse loses the bend, I tend to ask for an immediate leg yield back to the track.

2) The movement doesnt flow, the gait becomes shuffling and stiff, all forward movement practically stops. This is usually a sign that the hand is too strong or the horse is losing his or her balance. You have to ensure you're allowing the movement to happen. If you're very strong in your hands in asking for the flexion, the horse wont go anywhere as you'll block him.

3) The banana effect. This is a bit like what you see when people ride a shoulder in incorrectly and produce nothing more than a neck bend without any actual movement from the shoulders. If the front end is merely bent at the neck and then the hind quarters pushed over by the leg, you'll produce a bizarre banana shape where the shoulders are no longer leading, the hind legs are shooting off and the head is being yanked round by the hand to try and create the bend.

This is precisely why the preparation work for half pass should be good! The rider needs to be able to control the shoulders correctly to produce the correct flexions (practiced by riding correct shoulder ins where the whole forehand moves off the outside track.) They also need to be able to control the hind quarters and have a horse that understands the application of the leg means to step away (hence travers is taught on the outside track and leg yield is always taught before the half pass).

It is one of the more complex movements for sure, particularly as you move on to zig-zag half passes which require immense precision, finesse and control over how you position the horse's shoulders.

Its definitly one that i dont think you can learn from a book sadly. I think you need eyes on the ground to help you with how you're sat, what you're asking and to ensure that the preparatory work is all in place

 

[Tierra]

I always always always ride with forehand leading but i should stress this is slight. People have a tendency of assuming that means strides ahead which it doesnt, the difference is very subtle.

Its a very common fault to see the hind quarters leading by miles though when people start to learn half pass. The rider asks for the haunches to come over, loses most control over the front end (or at best yanks the next around) and you get a weird almost c shape on the diagonal with a rider wondering why they arent going anywhere

 

[Tierra]

Some diagrams if it helps:-

http://www.classicaldressage.net/members/images/halfpass3.jpg

http://www.classicaldressage.net/members/images/halfpass2.jpg

(First piccies i found when googling for diagramatic half pass views. But to be nice and quote the source:-

http://www.classicaldressage.net/members/lesson_pages/half_pass.html)

And actual images:-

http://www.germandressage.com/images/Pik's%20Pride's%20Images/Misc/PikHP3.jpg

http://www.rosemaryparcell.com/2006/HalfPassGreyOnGoldSmall.jpg

http://www.somedaysoonfarm.com/images/welthafpas1.jpg

Do they give you a better idea of whats going on?

 

[JLav]

[ QUOTE ]
In a demo i watched at the Winters on friday evening John Lassiter said that the quarters should lead in halfpass

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a comedy demo and he was being very sarcastic when he said this. (Same with the 2 beat walk).

The shoulders should be slightly in advance of the quarters in half pass - slightly being the operative word here.

Quarters leading will be marked down.

 

[Tempi]

Yes i know that

And i am fully aware it was a comedy demo - i didnt have time to edit what i had written as i was half asleep this morning hence i just came back on now to change it!!!

 

[MissDeMeena]

WOW.. this has probably been the most informative post i've ever had... huge thanks..
It should be made a 'sticky' at the top for everyone to learn from for ever more!!!

Many Many thanks!!
I'm sure i'll cock it up loads, but i have a much better idea in my head about what should be going on!!!

Thanks again!!

 

[Bossanova]

Having ridden an advanced test, I can tell you that event horses arent expected to show a beautifully supple and expressive half-pass.
Theye generally very kind and you only have to do it centre line and it doesnt have to be very steep. You want him pretty much parallel to the long side and as you prepare for it, shoulder fore can help you bring him off the boards and onto the diaganol.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Half pass was explained to me, as leg yeild in 'mirror image'. That is how I imagine it and how I ride it, and my trainer seems to think the good ones are pretty good, although I still have to confess to never having seen it in real life!

 

[MissDeMeena]

[ QUOTE ]
Having ridden an advanced test, I can tell you that event horses arent expected to show a beautifully supple and expressive half-pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just as well, as i don't think even Carl could get supple and expressive out of Ernie doing anything, let-alone half pass haha