Halting at jumps teaching horses to stop

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GreyCoast

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I saw some comments a few weeks or months ago about halting a horse at a jump teaches the horse to stop. An unwanted type of stop, not the you-asked-for-it-so-here-it-is type :p. This is an exercise I've used extensively on 3 horses and not had a problem, helped convert one stopper even. Now that's quite limited experience, so I'd like to gather some more anectdata :D

I've either had instructors start the exercise, praise me for halting when the horse runs through the hand or not say anything at all, so I'm guessing they didn't have problems with the exercise either. :confused:

For me the theory is very simple. Go and stop. It's the first thing the horse learns undersaddle and I don't see why some coloured poles changes anything. It's like saying a dressage horse, once ridden down the centre line, will never halt at X again.

So, do you believe riding at a fence and halting instead of jumping teaches the horse to be a stopper and why?
 
as you said about the dressage horse... teaching the horse to stop in front of the jump, just teaches it to listen to the rider...because a well trained horse, if you ask it to jump the next time, should jump it..
i continuously did this exercise whith my last pony who pulled me in to the jump, if he thought he might be pulled up, he backed off a bit..
 
We went to an lessons last year with someone who made K pull B up in front of fences and it shattered both of their confidence. B went from a confident, careful pony who would go off any stride to one who would panic in front of a fence and stop as he was not sure what was expected of him. He had never stopped show jumping in the previous 3 years, our normal trainer could not believe the change in both of them. It meant we didn't start eventing last year until May while we worked on their confidence issues with our old trainer, fortunately he was patient with them and worked through the issues and built their confidence back up - he is now jumping better than ever. I know that this can work for some but don't assume that it will work for all horses.
 
it depends on the horse and the circumstances, i think.
i'd say that halting, backing up, and instilling discipline works well and doesn't teach the horse to stop. BUT halting, then turning to the side immediately, esp if it is close the jump, can show them how to run out...
i know of one horse whose confidence was ruined when a trainer had the rider stopping the horse IN A GRID. the horse had never stopped before but was totally thrown by this. i guess it taught him that there was an alternative to going forward and jumping the fence. but, that's an extreme example i think.
 
ah, Jane_Lou's experience is the same, by the sounds of it. some horses just never need that sort of discipline, it utterly confuses them. circling away to improve the canter (repeatedly if necessary) doesn't muck up the horse's 'ownership' of the fence...
 
its an exercise I'd never use - I want mine to go even if I have made a giant c*ck up, frozen, panicked or generally done something mucho stupid

Also now training to jump one handed when I am leaning out, so definitely want an independent horse
 
My horse is normally a very sane soul. But sometimes, especially in the field at home, or if he gets worked up at a comp (although only happened the one time) I have stopped him in front of a fence. Well, probably about 4-5 strides out, not directly in front, is that the same?

My horse is responsive and does listen, but every so often at home with all his pals watching he just thinks wahey! and wants to gallop off. I haven't found that stopping him like this makes him stop when unwanted. He rarely stops, and only does when I've presented on one he can't go off :o (or he could go off, but he'd rather stop than hit the fence )
 
Stencilface said:
My horse is normally a very sane soul. But sometimes, especially in the field at home, or if he gets worked up at a comp (although only happened the one time) I have stopped him in front of a fence. Well, probably about 4-5 strides out, not directly in front, is that the same?

My horse is responsive and does listen, but every so often at home with all his pals watching he just thinks wahey! and wants to gallop off. I haven't found that stopping him like this makes him stop when unwanted. He rarely stops, and only does when I've presented on one he can't go off :o (or he could go off, but he'd rather stop than hit the fence )
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Sounds like my horse! I have done this on the odd occasion when he got a bit over exuberant and cocky and it has never stopped his wanting to jump. The next time round he will be alot better, listen to me and wait rather than doing what he wants to do. He does it out of pure excitement and just needs reminding who's boss. I dont think it does any harm however I would never stop directly infront of a fence as I do believe that could cause problems. It would be better to pull them up after the fence rather than directly infront.
 
Personally I wouldn't pull a horse up in front of a fence unless it had a really specific problem (like rushing). I think horses should be taught to jump off any / less than perfect stride - if a horse is pulled up everytime its canter isnt perfect then it learns not to think for itself. I event though, so you do sometimes get the less-than-perfect-take off at a fence, often with the horse being strong / running on etc. but the aim is to get over the fence so that's what I do! You can call me reckless, but my horses have always learnt to think for themselves in this way, if we get into problems at a XC combination, I've often just chucked him the reins and he sorts it out for me. He'd be extremely confused if I pulled him up at a fence. I just dont see the point, you wont get very far in the ring if you pull up everytime your horse pulls or whatever...
 
I did this exercise woth my whizzy horse, aswell as lots of circling in front of fences with an intructor that I used to use. It did slow him down considerably, but it also made him stop and affected the confidence of both of us.

It works for some horses but not all.
 
GreyCoast said:
I saw some comments a few weeks or months ago about halting a horse at a jump teaches the horse to stop. An unwanted type of stop, not the you-asked-for-it-so-here-it-is type :p. This is an exercise I've used extensively on 3 horses and not had a problem, helped convert one stopper even. Now that's quite limited experience, so I'd like to gather some more anectdata :D

I've either had instructors start the exercise, praise me for halting when the horse runs through the hand or not say anything at all, so I'm guessing they didn't have problems with the exercise either. :confused:

For me the theory is very simple. Go and stop. It's the first thing the horse learns undersaddle and I don't see why some coloured poles changes anything. It's like saying a dressage horse, once ridden down the centre line, will never halt at X again.

So, do you believe riding at a fence and halting instead of jumping teaches the horse to be a stopper and why?
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This exercise really worked for me. I was riding a 16.1hh mare who saw a fence and would just run towards it as fast as she could. After a few goes at that, she began to come into the fences in a nice controlled canter and actually cleared the jumps instead of flattening everything. I've did it was a few other ponies and it's ended with the same effects too :)

ETA: The mare in question was bad for putting a dirty stop in right up at the jump, but it never really happened again after that exercise..
 
for me it would very much depend on the horse. if it was a nervous/spooky type that was rushing then i would rather use circles/ gridwork to help. if necessary i would stop after the fence. however, with one that just tanks as soon as it sees the fence i would stop before it as its not nice being tanked into fences and can actually be dangerous. :)
 
i think what's crucial is WHERE the stopping is done. i'd say 5 strides or less from the fence is too late, you are getting into 'final approach and take-off' territory there. earlier, so you can halt, rein back and even perhaps put legs on and go forward and jump the fence from there (if it's not huge), is probably fine. just as the zone to circle away, without teaching the horse to run out, is fairly specific too imho...
 
kerilli said:
i think what's crucial is WHERE the stopping is done. i'd say 5 strides or less from the fence is too late, you are getting into 'final approach and take-off' territory there. earlier, so you can halt, rein back and even perhaps put legs on and go forward and jump the fence from there (if it's not huge), is probably fine. just as the zone to circle away, without teaching the horse to run out, is fairly specific too imho...
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Just what I was about to say. I wouldn't want to be able to stop in the last two or three strides! I want something that's going and is committed. I may use the exercise with small jumps and, as Kerilli says, trot up, halt a few strides out, go on and jump it, halt after.

My horse used to get a bit rushy and anticipate. My instructor had me do two jumps in a row (several strides apart) then the second time I came, I had to circle after the first, then come back and jump the second. My mare was furious at being made to circle and bucked her way round, but the point was that she had to listen to me, not tank me off as and when she fancied.

I wouldn't ride up to a fence with the intention of stopping slap bang in front of it. Too much chance of the horse thinking that that's what it is meant to do!
 
I have used this exercise several times on horses with great success. It is brilliant for horses who run against the hand, are cocky or just start towing you into the fence as they normally do it several strides away and not two strides from the fence. Stopping after the fence is also pretty useful. I personally do not think its an exercise for everyone to follow and think you need to be pretty switched on before using it.
 
I've done this quite a lot in lessons with Lionel (Dunning), and interestingly the one who benefits the most is the one who will rush, run himself to an impossible spot and then - understandably - stop. :rolleyes: I'd say it teaches him that my input is (mainly :o) helpful and worth taking note of. ;) Left to his own devices he'd probably wing in, getting faster and flatter, then clout a few and lose his confidence. His best mate (begins with "J" :p) loves it if I leave him alone but he has oodles of confidence, doesn't think he needs more than one stride where he's looking at the fence and will do all kinds of contortions to get to the other side and leave it up; what he needs is manners to stop him turning into an unruly and unrideable little dirtbag. :D Horses for courses...

Another thing we often ask them to do is halt and rein back which re-connects the front end and the back end, making them better equipped to do a good job when they do get to the fence.
 
totally depends on horse if i did this to my hunter who is still quite green he would panic and im sure he would stop the next time. but my project horse needs this doing 3/4 times before she will not bolt into a fence, although even when she does this she wouldnt touch a pole but nice not to go into a sj full on gallop
 
I was asked to do it on an Andrew Hamilton lesson too (my first one with him) - with my cocky mare that is too bold for her own good sometimes, and never stops. I found it a very hard exercise initially. He asked us to stop four or five strides away, and then occasionally he would come over and discuss it, other times we'd just halt for a few seconds, then we'd pick up the impuulsion and go over, stopping four or five strides on the other side. It worked quite well with myself and the mare - if anything it showed me that I had more influence on the approach than I thought - often she stopped much quicker than I expected and I nearly went over her head! Quite a few friends have had lessons with this trainer too, and have never been asked to do this exercise, so he obviously thought it was something that would benefit us. He'd already seen the mare jump some big 4' grids without batting an eyelid, and me fighting her for a steady approach, so I guess he'd sussed us out.

My "regular" SJ instructor sums the mare up as "thinking she knows everything and refusing to listen", which isn't far off sometimes. As I said, she is also one of the bravest and most honest horses that I've ever sat on! We have much less issues XC, with us both giving and taking - whereas SJ she likes to take over!
 
kerilli said:
Baydale, whereabouts (ish) in front of the fence does Lionel ask you to do it? 10 strides? 5? fewer? as soon as the horse thinks of rushing? is there a point of no return beyond which you wouldn't do it, maybe? thanks.
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You know the exercise I posted vids of, 4 fences on two strides? Sometimes we'll do it in that, but I'll have already jumped 1st fence circled away, jumped 1 and 2, circled away. In that instance I'll jump, go to circle, then pull up and rein back, then come again.

Sometimes I'll do it about 5 strides away, usually aided by lots of "whoa-ing".:eek: It's amazing how quickly they cotton on and the next time they sit and wait sweetly :p....or sometimes it takes another couple of attempts. :rolleyes:

The point of no return would be when my aids, including the frantic whoa-ing ;), don't work, but hopefully that's the exception rather than the rule. When Cal is on a mission as he was in the recent video I probably wouldn't do it until he'd settled more (wind out of sails), but the circling away having jumped 1, then 1 & 2 and so on, and also the half-halting strongly on the landing stride so I could soften on the next stride, would both achieve the same.

Sorry if that's vague, but it's such an individual thing it's difficult to make a blanket statement about when and how I'd do it.:confused:
 
I have fallen off with this practice. I thought it was un-neccesary and just taught my horse that I gob him in front of jumps to make him stop, this is the horse that used to dirty stop as well and still does it on occasion well needless to say after me jumping the first part of a 2 stride double dragging him to a halt i the middle then asking him to jump the second part from a stand still he took off wildly and shot me up his neck, I tried to stay on but off he went acrossthe field and I fell off.

I wasnt impressed with the instructor who was making me do it as he was murder to jump for weeks after it and I had to start our confidence again as he was expecting to get gobbed to stop after every jump :mad:
 
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