Hanging cheek for dales x cob

Hanging cheek will encourage head down, but I think I'd be looking to something that will deter him from leaning and taking a hold, but which is mild otherwise.

Perhaps hanging cheek waterford?
 
pennyturner said:
Hanging cheek will encourage head down, but I think I'd be looking to something that will deter him from leaning and taking a hold, but which is mild otherwise.

Perhaps hanging cheek waterford?
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I'd happily choose a waterford or something similar, however the bit needs to be "showing/dressage legal" I know that judges don't look in the mouth, but I don't want to take the risk :(
 
Hanging cheeks encourage leaning on the bit - have used them successfully on horses that stargaze to teach them to come down, but they do teach a horse to lean. Switch to a loose ring for horses that lean. If very bad for leaning could try a loose ring waterford, but waterfords can be harsh so be careful. Personally, I would stick with a loose ring and school more transitions!
 
khalswitz said:
Hanging cheeks encourage leaning on the bit - have used them successfully on horses that stargaze to teach them to come down, but they do teach a horse to lean. Switch to a loose ring for horses that lean. If very bad for leaning could try a loose ring waterford, but waterfords can be harsh so be careful. Personally, I would stick with a loose ring and school more transitions!
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I didn't know that they encouraged leaning! If he leans any more i'll have no shoulders left!
 
Have you tried a French Link Rugby Pelham? It basically rides like a double bridle but isn't, and the extra ring on it allows a little "play" in the mouth which is often what a lot of cobs are looking for.

The extra headpiece (which fits on the extra ring) gives you a little more downward control without being excessive.

My cob goes brilliantly in this; it suits him and he can produce a lovely outline when he's ridden in it.

You WILL need to buy an extra headpiece; i.e. just a plain leather strap like you'd use for a chifney for instance. And you do need to make sure the bridle & bit are correctly adjusted. If you're in doubt, PM me and then we can communicate by e-mail, and I'll send you a picture of my boy in it if you need to see how it goes!!!

Worth a try mebbe??

But, um, OP, think you need to maybe need to do a little more work with yours in the school to get him listening to you, personally I'd go right back to groundwork and go from there. The problem with these cobs is that often they haven't had the necessary bringing on, i.e. mine was ridden in a trekking centre and was always either behind the leg OR tanking on ahead way in front of the bit!!!

Yours sounds like he needs to listen to you and respect you a bit more, and you might need to work on him to get him responsive to you and THEN think about bitting. OR....... just another suggestion, you could try bitless??? (do it in the school first, obviously and see how it goes). The issue with cobs often isn't that they "don't know their own strength" because they blimmin well do, that's exactly the problem, they've learnt how to use it negatively - and you need to change that as the primary issue before looking at bitting TBH. Also I'd get a saddle check as this can very easily put a horse out of balance due to pain/discomfort.
 
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If he leans or grabs the bit then you don't want a hanging cheek or anything fixed, eg eggbutt, etc If it has to be dressage legal I'd try a loose ring French link or something like that. Otherwise I agree with the Waterford . What is he in just now? What kind of mouthpiece?
 
alexandraj said:
I didn't know that they encouraged leaning! If he leans any more i'll have no shoulders left!
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Yeah - the baucher encourages roundness not because of poll pressure (that's a myth) but because contact rotates the cheekpieces and lifts the mouth piece up, relieving the tongue and bars. So going into a contact is a relief. It's great for teaching horses who stick their head up above the bit to come down and round, but does encourage leaning.

I rode in one of these in my lad til just recently, and whilst it's been great getting him to lower, now he leans. I am back to a loose ring for flatwork now.
 
holeymoley said:
If he leans or grabs the bit then you don't want a hanging cheek or anything fixed, eg eggbutt, etc If it has to be dressage legal I'd try a loose ring French link or something like that. Otherwise I agree with the Waterford . What is he in just now? What kind of mouthpiece?
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He's in a full cheek flexi mullen mouth - Not really ideal as he just grabs it! I've tried him in an eggbutt snaffle and he seems to toss his head and pull down sharply in this
 
khalswitz said:
Yeah - the baucher encourages roundness not because of poll pressure (that's a myth) but because contact rotates the cheekpieces and lifts the mouth piece up, relieving the tongue and bars. So going into a contact is a relief. It's great for teaching horses who stick their head up above the bit to come down and round, but does encourage leaning.

I rode in one of these in my lad til just recently, and whilst it's been great getting him to lower, now he leans. I am back to a loose ring for flatwork now.
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I think I want to stop the leaning and dragging me round more than I want him in a perfect outline. At least if he's not dragging me, I might actually be able to ride properly instead of adapting!
 
alexandraj said:
I think I want to stop the leaning and dragging me round more than I want him in a perfect outline. At least if he's not dragging me, I might actually be able to ride properly instead of adapting!
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In your situation I wouldn't worry about dressage legal for a while. You need to sort the problem first, then once your cob has got the idea you should be able to drop back to something kind and legal.

I agree with the point above about schooling transitions. Personally I would try a cambridge mouthed pelham or kimblewick, or a waterford to see which works best. Once he's going OK, try him back in a snaffle. Go down to a cambridge mouth from the pelham/kimblewick, or a french link from the waterford.

If he still grabs the straight bar bits, the old fashioned solution would be something with rollers - personally I'd rather be looking at my schooling, as these were designed back in the day when horses worked day in, day out and ended up with mouths like iron, and that's very unlikely to be your problem.
 
pennyturner said:
In your situation I wouldn't worry about dressage legal for a while. You need to sort the problem first, then once your cob has got the idea you should be able to drop back to something kind and legal.

I agree with the point above about schooling transitions. Personally I would try a cambridge mouthed pelham or kimblewick, or a waterford to see which works best. Once he's going OK, try him back in a snaffle. Go down to a cambridge mouth from the pelham/kimblewick, or a french link from the waterford.

If he still grabs the straight bar bits, the old fashioned solution would be something with rollers - personally I'd rather be looking at my schooling, as these were designed back in the day when horses worked day in, day out and ended up with mouths like iron, and that's very unlikely to be your problem.
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Thank you for your reply :) I have tried schooling and to be honest it's a 45 minute argument for 15 minutes of just about getting it right. He's not a typical cob, he's very sensitive, very nervous and unsure of pretty much everything. I spent all summer working on the concept of circles and not having to rush everywhere, however its just a battle. I've had lessons to help and none of them seem to understand or want to address the situation :(

When you say transitions do you mean things like: walk halt walk. trot walk trot canter trot canter trot halt trot etc? Or am I missing something as these are the kind of exercises ive been doing, choosing specific points and aiming for a transition there - He just gets wound up and eventually takes matters into his own hands.

I've been riding for 9/10 years and never felt so unsure of my own rider ability.
 
alexandraj said:
Thank you for your reply :) I have tried schooling and to be honest it's a 45 minute argument for 15 minutes of just about getting it right. He's not a typical cob, he's very sensitive, very nervous and unsure of pretty much everything. I spent all summer working on the concept of circles and not having to rush everywhere, however its just a battle. I've had lessons to help and none of them seem to understand or want to address the situation :(

When you say transitions do you mean things like: walk halt walk. trot walk trot canter trot canter trot halt trot etc? Or am I missing something as these are the kind of exercises ive been doing, choosing specific points and aiming for a transition there - He just gets wound up and eventually takes matters into his own hands.

I've been riding for 9/10 years and never felt so unsure of my own rider ability.
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A Waterford can be quite severe, which if your dales x cob is sensitive might upset him more? It sounds like a different instructor would be an idea if you feel you're not progressing with your lessons.
 
My mare is very strong & likes to lean. I find the hanging cheek snaffle (single jointed) the best dressage legal bit for her. I hear what your saying about not worrying about horse being in a perfect outline but to me outline is not about the way the horse looks. The horse must be soft & accepting of the bit for you to have any ride ability & control/brakes.
 
alexandraj said:
http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/P/..._copper_roller_snaffle_copper_bit-(2096).aspx

^^^^^ Does anyone think that this could be useful to me?
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Yes. This should discourage leaning that you're describing. However, I would anticipate the same head tossing you've seen with an eggbut snaffle, as its still a jointed bit. Try to find one with the rollers on an un-jointed bit if you can. They're certainly available for driving, and there's no law says you can't use a driving bit on a ridden horse, if it helps you get the right answer.
 
Not sure if this will help, but my lad is a dales/gypsy cob. I gave up on bits, he just hated them, and he goes beautifully in an English hackamore. Dentist confirmed he has a huge tongue and not a lot of room for a bit. Hope that helps.
 
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