Happy Mouth Full Cheek Roller Snaffle??

[KJJ]

OK guys... I have got Jaggles a new bit... I wanted a full cheek so that it stops the bit slipping through his mouth when schooling (as he tends to open his mouth!!) anywho...

The I haven't got Fulmer loops (think thats what they are called - having a memory lapse) as I don't want to apply any other pressure on or around his poll...

SO is it normal for the full cheek pieces to rotate forwards slightly?

(Not sure that makes sense!!)

(Only used this bit briefly lastnight whilst lunging in his pessoa... so he had the 'pessoa' clipped to bit which may have effected it I guess??)

Ta.

ALSO - will this bit be softer than a regular linked snaffle with lozenge as the 'peanut' can rotate all the way round and isn't fixed?

 

[jj_87]

i have no idea about the fulmer bit! But i have the same mouth piece both with Dutch Gag and baucher (sp) sides i've found that Chelsea needs something to play with when shes out and it prevents her from being quite so strong and unstoppable. And in the school shes very soft and responsive. Shes had better showing results this season by using the baucher i previously had her in a waterford as she really did lean but this problem seams to have dissapeared

hope this helps! I'm looking for the mouthpeice in a pelham for her showing classes now

 

[Maesfen]

I was always taught (and I don't know whether it's right or wrong, but it seems to make sense!) that if you don't use keepers for the bit, the action is more like a loose ring snaffle which hopefully helps the horse have a moist mouth and enables him to have it in the position he finds more comfortable. If you use keepers, it raises the mouthpiece in the mouth, possibly making the horse poke his nose a bit to find a comfortable position, (look at the bridle when on a bridle hook, both with and without keepers, you'll see better what I mean, with keepers, the joint is pushed forwards, without, it drops down). It's one reason why I've always liked a loose ring Fulmer for young horses, it gives you steering while they have a lovely moist mouth, must be more comfortable for them; I'd rather use a mullen mouth of some description than use keepers for a Fulmer myself. (bound to be shouted down now!)

 

[KJJ]

That does make sense... he's normally in a loose ring linked snaffle so what you say probably benefit him but not having the keepers.

Thanks guys

 

[flyingfeet]

The fulmer keepers (bit of leather which goes round the end of the metal cheek and onto the bridle cheek peice), do not add any poll pressure.

They are purely to keep the cheeks in place. Also fulmers traditionally had more pointy ends to the cheek which were best tucked in for activities like hunting when they could get caught up.

The full cheek will rotate slightly, but this is nothing to worry about.

The mouthpeice you have chosen is far superior to a single joint, it doesn't nutcracker the tongue, poke them in the roof of the mouth and allows swallowing!

 

[Rambo]

Actually, the fulmer keepers will produce a very small amount of poll pressure, but not much.

KJJ, You can ride with or without the keepers, it doesn't really matter

If he opens his mouth though, why not use a flash strap ?

 

[KJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
The fulmer keepers (bit of leather which goes round the end of the metal cheek and onto the bridle cheek peice), do not add any poll pressure.

[/ QUOTE ]I have to disagree... although minimal there would be some pressure.
[ QUOTE ]
They are purely to keep the cheeks in place. Also fulmers traditionally had more pointy ends to the cheek which were best tucked in for activities like hunting when they could get caught up.

The full cheek will rotate slightly, but this is nothing to worry about.

[/ QUOTE ]OK thankies

[ QUOTE ]
The mouthpeice you have chosen is far superior to a single joint, it doesn't nutcracker the tongue, poke them in the roof of the mouth and allows swallowing!

[/ QUOTE ]No No... he has a jointed snaffle in which contain a lozenge .... when he orignally came to me he had a standard linked snaffle that gave the nutcrackeraction which he HATED!! Hence changing to the french link.. but with the lozenge instead of the straight bar.

 

[KJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, the fulmer keepers will produce a very small amount of poll pressure, but not much.

KJJ, You can ride with or without the keepers, it doesn't really matter

If he opens his mouth though, why not use a flash strap ?

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks Rambo... I do ride him in a flash strap already.. but he then crosses his Jaw... I have tried him in a grackle too but then he bits down TBH when I start schooling (with sally2008) we will assess whether he is doing it for evasion or just out of habit... he's never really been schooled so he's not too sure whats being asked!!

Bless him

 

[flyingfeet]

Due to where the fulcrum is on a full cheek with keeper to get any poll pressure your reins would have to be very low on the ring and would need to be very grippy. The cheek peice cannot move and therefore any poll action would be further stifled.

This would not have as much poll pressure as a D ring, and certainly nothing like a baucher.

I disagree with Heather from Neue Schule on the keepers poll issue, as per Elwyn Hartley Edwards:
"The purpose of the retainers, other than to act as a safeguard against the cheek ends getting caught up in a nostril, is to maintain the bit's position in the mouth, which they do very effectively"

Oh yes being anal, but I have just designed a range of bits so rather keen on lorinery!

 

[Rambo]

Well, you obviously have done more research in this area than I have, but I did find a few articles that seem to back up my viewpoint :-

http://www.shop4bits.com/item--French-Link-Fulmer-Snaffle--French-Link-Fulmer-Snaffle.html

http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/index.php/cPath/153_188

So who's right