Hat-Cam/Body-Cam use.

[Ruddyreindeer]

Would I be breaking any laws if I were to wear my Hat-cam as a Body-cam at the yard? I'm thinking of using it when in the company of a very intimidating new livery who has some personal vendetta aimed at me personally. I can only assume she is trying to get rid of me as she wants the fields I use. I have been at this yard for 3yrs, but 2yrs prior I had been here and was bullied by a mother and daughter until I was so depressed I didn't want to go to my horses any more, so I left. This nasty pair eventually left, much to the relief of everyone else there (and after a few physical interactions with several other liveries ) so I moved back. This newbie is Fb friends with the daughter and call me paranoid, but she is trying the same techniques. Fortunately for us other liveries but not her horses, she only comes to her 2 horses once a day. Everyone has issues with her, but I am often alone on the yard and (70 this year) feel extremely vulnerable when she's around. Thirty years ago she wouldn't be doing this to me ! So, I want to wear the Body-cam for my own protection should something happen, so there's no "she said" "I said" type of argument. (She's a large person, and has quite a colourful vocabulary when there's no one else around . . . ) I do my best to avoid her but it isn't working.

 

[TotalMadgeness]

I'm sorry to hear you are in such a difficult position (again). I don't know the legalities around filming someone without their knowledge, especially when it is not a public place (like a park / road), but hopefully someone on here knows some facts which can help you. Of course if it was me I'd just go ahead and do it - but that's because I think its worth the risk and to hell with the consequences.

 

[Tash88]

Can you not tell your YO what is going on? I think you should bring it up with them before doing anything else, if you can. Or can you go at a time when she isn't there? Sounds like a horrible situation and the yard would be better off without her.

 

[PeterNatt]

I am sorry to hear about the Bullying you are suffering at your yard.
Please take a look at this:
https://www.facebook.com/notonmyyard/
I hope that this helps you.

 

[laura_nash]

I don't believe you would be breaking any laws. Possibly the YO might have a civil case against you, if they were inclined. You shouldn't put the footage online or keep it for a long time under GDPR. I'm not a solicitor though, that's just based on Googling.

 

[Trouper]

I would wear it (but not switched on) and when she begins to be offensive tell her you are wearing it and why you are going to switch it on to record her remarks. If she carries on, start recording. If she shuts up, walk away without recording.
I would also tell the YO what you are planning to do - at the very least as a matter of courtesy. It is her yard and she needs to know what is going on

 

[laura_nash]

I would also tell the YO what you are planning to do - at the very least as a matter of courtesy. It is her yard and she needs to know what is going on

Assuming YO is likely to care, which from OP's description of what happened 2 years ago seems unlikely, I rather assumed they were hands off (and not all YO's are female).

 

[Green Bean]

As long as it is visible and not hidden, I don't see the issue with it. A person still has the right to tell you not to film them though and you can't publish it, but assume that is not what you are looking at doing. If you have the YOs permission, they would need to circulate a warning to all liveries that you are proposing to add a bodycam. This will most likely infuriate the person who is the bully and things may come to a head but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I would stand my ground and wear the camera though. You cannot speak logically to bullies so there is no point trying to reason with them. You could always approach the police after speaking to the YO and ask them to consider a restraining order once you can prove you have done everything a peaceful person could do to mitigate the confrontations? Don't buckle, as believe me, they will not keep this up for ever. They are going on the belief of the previous set who would have told them that you left eventually so things will only get worse as they ramp up their aggression - stay strong and above all, do not give in. The second they are physical in any way with you (even shouldering you as they walk past) - phone the police straight away and ask them to come to the yard. Do not wait until you are home to do this. The police are your best defense in this situation as they will be cross at having to come out for something like this and will tell the people involved that this is a poor use of their time (not in a bad way for you). I remember having an altercation in Yorkshire a while back where we had followed our sat nav towing our caravan down a narrow road. We were just approaching a T junction when a van came round the corner towards us and told us we had to reverse! (this would have been for miles). After hubby had tried reasoning with the idiot, I phoned the police and they said to tell the van driver that if they had to come out to sort this out, he would be charged for obstruction - that shut him up very quickly!

 

[Merry neddy man]

I'm sure Google would give you the answer or ring a private investigator he will know what's legal and illegal.

 

[Ruddyreindeer]

I would wear it (but not switched on) and when she begins to be offensive tell her you are wearing it and why you are going to switch it on to record her remarks. If she carries on, start recording. If she shuts up, walk away without recording.
I would also tell the YO what you are planning to do - at the very least as a matter of courtesy. It is her yard and she needs to know what is going on

Unfortunately YO lives abroad, and person who oversees the yard ( can't really call them a Manager as Managers usually "Manage"!) won't answer text messages or phone. We are left to fight our own battles as a rule.

 

[Ruddyreindeer]

I would wear it (but not switched on) and when she begins to be offensive tell her you are wearing it and why you are going to switch it on to record her remarks. If she carries on, start recording. If she shuts up, walk away without recording.
I would also tell the YO what you are planning to do - at the very least as a matter of courtesy. It is her yard and she needs to know what is going on

I have the feeling that she would take it off me if I told her I had one. Perhaps not a good idea.

 

[Ruddyreindeer]

I'm sure Google would give you the answer or ring a private investigator he will know what's legal and illegal.

Good idea, will have a look.

 

[Ruddyreindeer]

As long as it is visible and not hidden, I don't see the issue with it. A person still has the right to tell you not to film them though and you can't publish it, but assume that is not what you are looking at doing. If you have the YOs permission, they would need to circulate a warning to all liveries that you are proposing to add a bodycam. This will most likely infuriate the person who is the bully and things may come to a head but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I would stand my ground and wear the camera though. You cannot speak logically to bullies so there is no point trying to reason with them. You could always approach the police after speaking to the YO and ask them to consider a restraining order once you can prove you have done everything a peaceful person could do to mitigate the confrontations? Don't buckle, as believe me, they will not keep this up for ever. They are going on the belief of the previous set who would have told them that you left eventually so things will only get worse as they ramp up their aggression - stay strong and above all, do not give in. The second they are physical in any way with you (even shouldering you as they walk past) - phone the police straight away and ask them to come to the yard. Do not wait until you are home to do this. The police are your best defense in this situation as they will be cross at having to come out for something like this and will tell the people involved that this is a poor use of their time (not in a bad way for you). I remember having an altercation in Yorkshire a while back where we had followed our sat nav towing our caravan down a narrow road. We were just approaching a T junction when a van came round the corner towards us and told us we had to reverse! (this would have been for miles). After hubby had tried reasoning with the idiot, I phoned the police and they said to tell the van driver that if they had to come out to sort this out, he would be charged for obstruction - that shut him up very quickly!

Love what happened to you with your caravan, have had similar experience when towing my horse trailer and a large van. I didn't back down then (was quite a bit younger and braver!!) and he eventually realised unless he backed up we were there for the duration. I know the police would be the logical solution if the situation became physical, but all I want is a quiet life and to enjoy having the horses. It's not a great establishment, far from it, but my husband and I have spent time and money making the stables and fencing safe, and it's only 1 mile from home so moving again would be horrible, and the other liveries are great. I suppose I shall have to put my Brave Pants on .

 

[Meowy Catkin]

You can get tabards that state camera in use for riding, could you wear that with the camera?

https://www.v-bandz.co.uk/category-2/SCIU-AMWC.html Might be a helpful link. Definitely check the legal side first.

 

[dreamcometrue]

When she is around put on your earphones and listen to your favourite music. If she approaches just smile and gesticulate ‘can’t hear you’ and smile. Dark glasses help too. ?

 

[FFAQ]

Does she ever harass you in your horse's stable? Just thinking a security camera in there might be good back up if she does take yours off you (which surely would be assault). How horrifying that you feel threatened enough by this person that you don't feel safe around her, i'm infuriated on your behalf OP ?.
Definitely keep a log of all abusive interactions with this person so you have evidence should you need it. I know it's easier to give her what she wants, but why should you?! I really hope the situation resolves itself in your favour rapidly.

 

[Trouper]

I have the feeling that she would take it off me if I told her I had one. Perhaps not a good idea.

If she touches you that can be classed as assault and would instantly ramp up the police response!!! Sorry - but you must not give in to this moron.

 

[Rowreach]

It's appalling that you are in this situation and having to even think about this sort of action.

If the other liveries are lovely, can you not enlist their help to speak to the YM or whoever is responsible for livery contracts, and collectively ask that this person is given notice?

 

[thefarsideofthefield]

We often use a local footpath when we walk the dogs and the owner of the land adjacent ( but not the actual footpath ) would regularly and openly film us , even when asked not to , his reason being " In case you do something " ! In reality he just doesn't like people using the path and was trying to intimidate us . I did call the police to find out if he could do it and even they seemed a bit unsure about the legalities of it , but after a bit of a conflab the general opinion was that it is legal to film someone in a public place and there wasn't much we could do about it . They did tell me that if I felt threatened they would pay him a visit and that I should not hesitate to call them again , but in the end I went out on my own one day and filmed him filming me , and then told him that filming lone females in isolated locations was probably not the best idea and that if he did it again I would report him to the police for intimidation/sexual harassment . No issues since .
I think that the law around 'filming in public places ' is so woolly that you would be extremely unlikely to get into trouble if challenged . And who would take issue with an elderly vulnerable lady in a potentially threatening situation taking steps to protect herself ? Or what if you are going about your own business and using the camera to film your own private daily routine for , say , a blog or social media (hack , horse , yard activities etc ) but she ( the bully ) is the one who initiates an encounter ? Do you have to stop recording on your camera/phone/dashcam every time someone comes into view ? There is probably a case for pointing out to someone that they're on camera but what if , in the heat of the moment , you forget it's running ? I think there's a distinct difference between following and covertly filming someone and just going about your own daily routine with a camera running ,and I very much doubt that there is anything much that anyone could do about it . Crumbs - how many times do you hear the police appealing for camera footage when crimes occur ? I'd say do what you need to do to feel safe .

 

[Merry neddy man]

Put your mobile phone onto record no pictures but you have the conversation

 

[cbmcts]

Hi OP

As you are on private property there is no legal issue with filming. There is a bit of a grey area in that it is a livery yard but the likelihood of any action being taken against you is slim to nil (unless you put it on SM but you wouldn't do that would you )

But I noticed that you said that if she knew you were filming that she would try and remove the camera? So I think you need to think about why you want to do this.
As a deterrent to nasty livery? Well no, she won't know you are doing this...
For proof with YM if she claims you did/said something? If the the YM is so ineffectual, will proof make any difference?
To report to the police if she goes too far? Really, honestly and truly, police are unlikely to take any meaningful action unless there is sustained provable evidence and covert filming where it is very easy to manipulate images (I'm not saying you would but many would) by editing would not normally be considered evidence enough on it's own.

Rather than relying on a body cam to deal with this person, can you garner support at the yard so that you arrange to be there with others? Be strong enough to not get into conversation with this livery, every time they start just walk away. Keep thinking 'wanting ain't getting' and grey rock them. By all means keep a record of incidents, noting who else was present and what was said. But do think about what you want to achieve with the evidence.

Personally I would be inclined to have your phone recording audio - it's less calculated than the body cam if you're not using it visibly. Do inform YO/YM in writing about the issue and ask for their advice. Even if they ignore it, you are building a paper trail...

 

[Ruddyreindeer]

When she is around put on your earphones and listen to your favourite music. If she approaches just smile and gesticulate ‘can’t hear you’ and smile. Dark glasses help too. ?

I normally wear earphones as I listen to books whilst mucking out etc, but she is soo loud when on the yard (needs everyone to know she is there!) that I've not been able to listen while she's around. Thanks for the idea though x

 

[Ruddyreindeer]

Hi OP

As you are on private property there is no legal issue with filming. There is a bit of a grey area in that it is a livery yard but the likelihood of any action being taken against you is slim to nil (unless you put it on SM but you wouldn't do that would you )

But I noticed that you said that if she knew you were filming that she would try and remove the camera? So I think you need to think about why you want to do this.
As a deterrent to nasty livery? Well no, she won't know you are doing this...
For proof with YM if she claims you did/said something? If the the YM is so ineffectual, will proof make any difference?
To report to the police if she goes too far? Really, honestly and truly, police are unlikely to take any meaningful action unless there is sustained provable evidence and covert filming where it is very easy to manipulate images (I'm not saying you would but many would) by editing would not normally be considered evidence enough on it's own.

Rather than relying on a body cam to deal with this person, can you garner support at the yard so that you arrange to be there with others? Be strong enough to not get into conversation with this livery, every time they start just walk away. Keep thinking 'wanting ain't getting' and grey rock them. By all means keep a record of incidents, noting who else was present and what was said. But do think about what you want to achieve with the evidence.

Personally I would be inclined to have your phone recording audio - it's less calculated than the body cam if you're not using it visibly. Do inform YO/YM in writing about the issue and ask for their advice. Even if they ignore it, you are building a paper trail...

You are so right, the YM (!!) is not going to do anything even if I had footage of her behaviour. As I said before, it's not a well run establishment and what rules there are never get enforced. New liveries are basically told the front gate must be closed and that's about it! We have had some lovely people who have left for a variety of reasons, and lots stay in touch, but some are just out to make trouble and unfortunately are succeeding at the moment. I shall wear my camera on my hat with a reflective band around the yard and just hope it is a deterrent. Worse than being back at infant school . . . . .

 

[Birker2020]

I thought you could film anywhere you chose, whether its a public place or not. But if you are going viral you need to pixilate their face.
On 'Can't pay, we'll take it away' they filmed people without permission in their places of business or even own homes, but always pixilated their faces. The ones that weren't pixilated were the ones agreeing to the filming of them I assume.

I'm sorry you are going through this OP. It's not pleasant being bullied no matter whatever your age.

I am often a mouthpiece for others who will moan and complain about the injustice of this, that and the other but will happily sit back whilst I put my neck on the line by trying to have a discussion with someone in authority. There is nothing more precious in such a situation as soladarity and you have said that other liveries have also had issues with this bully. There will always be strength in numbers and if you can do (what I have failed to do on ocassion) and get others to also speak to the YO then you might find this helps.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Report her threatening behaviour to the police (via 101 not 999) and maybe a visit from them will help make her stop/ move? Awful situation for you, big virtual hugs.

 

[Annagain]

I normally wear earphones as I listen to books whilst mucking out etc, but she is soo loud when on the yard (needs everyone to know she is there!) that I've not been able to listen while she's around. Thanks for the idea though x

You don't need to actually listen to anything, just put the earphones in and make out you can't hear her. It's quite handy for people to think you can't hear them sometimes.

I agree a body cam might be construed as antagonistic. Would there be a way to convince the YM to allow you to put up a basic CCTV system instead, even if you just cover your stable and the area just outside it? I think you can get some systems that link to your phone and are relatively inexpensive. You needn't even mention this person, just that you're concerned for security and are happy to install it? If the other liveries back you up, even if this person doesn't want it, they'll be in the minority and if they know it's there, it might stop their behaviour, which is surely the ideal?

 

[Birker2020]

You don't need to actually listen to anything, just put the earphones in and make out you can't hear her. It's quite handy for people to think you can't hear them sometimes.

I agree a body cam might be construed as antagonistic. Would there be a way to convince the YM to allow you to put up a basic CCTV system instead, even if you just cover your stable and the area just outside it? I think you can get some systems that link to your phone and are relatively inexpensive. You needn't even mention this person, just that you're concerned for security and are happy to install it? If the other liveries back you up, even if this person doesn't want it, they'll be in the minority and if they know it's there, it might stop their behaviour, which is surely the ideal?

These days you can buy very small CCTV cameras yourself that are wireless and operate on your phone. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1080P-Wi...192695?hash=item218334be77:g:oPUAAOSwMxdgF7vt

I would like to reiterate that I don't have one in case anyone knows me personally. But have thought about it on occasion from the perspective of having a very colic prone horse at one time!

 

[FFAQ]

Hi OP, how are things? Has she left you alone since you've been wearing your hat camera?