Hats, Hi-Viz and Back Protectors and INS..Compulsory on the roads?

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nativetyponies

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Yes, I think they should be, like riding a motorbike.
And any rider involved in an accident and not wearing the above, should have their INS made null and void.
There are far too many vehicles on the roads these days and anything that help protect should be used.

Just my POV.
 
I have a feeling many will disagree, but I for one agree with you. If you expect your insurance to cover you then I think it is fair to be expected to take reasnoble precautions against accident or injury.

I'm not sure I would expect hats and bps to become law, but it would be good to get cheaper insurance if you lower your risk of injury by using them.

Reflective wear I think should be compulsory as it affects others aswell. It is considerate to other road users - as a driver as well as a rider I would feel just awful if I hit a horse or rider that I didn't see. I think something like that could be the most terrible nightmare if the rider or horse was injured or worse.

Be fair to those you share the road with and give them a fighting chance of avoiding you.
 
Hi-Viz and 3rd party insurance - makes sense to me for these to be complusory on the roads, should be the case for cyclists etc as well IMO.

Hats and BPs - well, I think you're daft if you don't wear a hat, but adults should be able to make their own decisions about their own safety. Personally I don't wear a BP generally, again I think it should be a personal choice for adults.
 
i don't think that body protectors should be complusory, but hi- vis definately should be. my horse looks like a yellow lantern in the winter months!!!

hats, depends on the rider and their horse. some horses i will never wear a hat with (unless they're in a mood!) and others i always will, just in case.
 
Hi Vis and Insurance, yes, totally agree they should be compulsory.

Hat and BP, that's down to personal choice - it won't affect another road user, so it's down to the individual.
 
High viz and hat definately.

BP. Yes, I guess so if saying 'yes' to hats.

A lot of riders don't seem to apprecitate/accept that it's other people who very often have to pick up the pieces, literally, when something goes wrong.

I would say though, that at the time they make these compulsory for horse riders, then they make hats/boots/jackets/gloves compulsory for motorcyclists and cyclists :D :D :D

As many on here know, I have found out the hard way on a number of these points, and been thankful that I was wearing protective gear each time :)

After breaking my back I had a good long think about giving up riding. Spoke to D. Told him I would give up riding horses, if he gave up cycling and didn't take up anything else that had a dangerous element to it :D. He still won't wear a helmet on his pushbike - I have checked the life insurance policy :cool:
 
Totally agree with Hi-viz, hats and 3rd party insurance again same should be the case for cyclists, but BP's I think is going a little too far, that bit should be down to personal choice.
 
MrsMozart said:
A lot of riders don't seem to apprecitate/accept that it's other people who very often have to pick up the pieces, literally, when something goes wrong.
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I think that is a really important point, which alot of people when stating their choice not to wear a piece of safety gear, seem to forget.

If the decision truly only affects you then go right ahead and do as you please.

For those who ride and who have any family members or friends (guessing that would be pretty much everyone then!), your decision affects them just as much. You might hurt your self and have to recover (doing a hobby YOU enjoy, with the safety equipment YOU choose), they will be the ones who have to deal with someone they love being injured or killed and they will also need to offer the care.

There can be few things worse than seeing someone you love hurt badly and having their life limited because of it - when this is due to a stupid decision not to wear available and comfortable safety equipment then this must be almost unbearable.
 
I work in the field of insurance.

Personally I think that third party insurance should be compulsory. I think anyone riding on the road without is nuts, but many people do not understand why they need it. The effects of riding (or driving) on the road without third party insurance can be massive and it is unfair to leave someone else without recourse because you were too tight to buy very cheap third party insurance.

The other stuff, it is up to the government to legislate on whether they wish to make such safety equipment compulsory. I wouldn't have a problem with them making safety equipment compulsory but I doubt that they will take the time preferring to leave it to choice. It is already compulsory to wear a hat if under 14 and to carry lights after sunset. But given that the police don't enforce the current law on lights in relation to horses or cycles I think it is unlikely to get stricter!

In terms of insurance, failure to wear safety equipment should not make your insurance null and void. That would be draconian, inconsistent and possibly counter productive.

Personally I think the approach to hats (for riders and cyclists) should equate directly to the approach with seatbelts. That is that if you make a claim following an accident and were not wearing a seatbelt the court considers what the result would have been if you had been wearing a seatbelt. If your injuries would have been the same or worse had you been wearing the seatbelt then the claim is paid in full. If the injuries would have been prevented entirely or significantly reduced your claim will be reduced.

Hi Viz is slightly different, I am fairly sure that failure to wear high viz would be considered contributory negligence if the failure was consdered causative. So if wearing high viz would have prevented the accident the claim will be reduced, if the accident would still have happened even if high viz was worn the claim will be paid in full.

We should not be campaigning to put ourselves in a MORE vulnerable position than other road users or to make ourselves more vulnerable to claims against us as this will make insurance more expensive and eventually damage the sport. We are already in a disadvantaged position due to the Animals Act and Mirvahedy, we shouldn't make things worse for ourselves!
 
glosgirl said:
I have a feeling many will disagree, but I for one agree with you. If you expect your insurance to cover you then I think it is fair to be expected to take reasnoble precautions against accident or injury.

I'm not sure I would expect hats and bps to become law, but it would be good to get cheaper insurance if you lower your risk of injury by using them.

Reflective wear I think should be compulsory as it affects others aswell. It is considerate to other road users - as a driver as well as a rider I would feel just awful if I hit a horse or rider that I didn't see. I think something like that could be the most terrible nightmare if the rider or horse was injured or worse.

Be fair to those you share the road with and give them a fighting chance of avoiding you.
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my thoughts exactly.

However I wear all three, an insurance pay out one thing but that's no good to me if I've been killed or seriously injured.

End of the day your in complete control of a engine (motorbike for example), they don't have minds of their own like a horse does, so anything that help both riders and other road users is a must in my book.
 
Rana said:
Hi Vis and Insurance, yes, totally agree they should be compulsory.

Hat and BP, that's down to personal choice - it won't affect another road user, so it's down to the individual.
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Well actually it does affect other road users as whether a hat is being worn can easily be the difference between living with the memory of a nasty accident and living with someone's death on your consience!

And the difference between an insurance claim worth £10,000 or one worth £1,000,000. That affects everyone who buys insurance as it pushes premiums up!
 
That is a very interesting viewpoint from the insurance point of view. I personally think that Hi Viz should be complusory. There is a lady round here - daughter events and they have 3 or 4 really nice horses - who rides round on a bay horse in the early morning in a brown jacket. Other people,local residents who drive round the lanes and ride as well, have complained to me about her, and I mean to tell the local Policeman to have a word with her if possible. He, the PC, visited the local livery yard and said that he would prosecute any rider out in the dusk without lights, etc. as it is a lane that at certain times is a busy cut through.

Not all accidents will be prevented by wearing high viz, sometimes a motorist is driving within the speed limit and the car skids or goes out of control and there is no way to avoid an accident.

However, I think that as road users it is up to riders to be considerate to other road users and wear high viz at all times, summer and winter, as a courtesy. Iam sure that drivers appreciate it. I am lucky that most of my riding is along lanes and I only have to go short distances along main roads or the busier B roads, but I would say that 95% of drivers give me plenty of room and slow down. Needless to say, I and my horse are well decked out in high viz, more inthe winter/rainy conditions. Most cyclists I see wear helmets and bright clothes as well.
 
I'd be completely against it becoming compulsory - I feel we already have enough rules, regulations and red tape in our daily lives to contend with, it should be the individuals choice whether they use hat, hi-vis, bp etc. Plus the police have better things to do than monitor riders for hi- vis and body protectors.

I also think that when we make such as issue about being vulnerable and a danger on the roads then the solution could well be that it is easier to ban horses full stop; and I think that many motorists would welcome the end of inconvenient horses; be careful what you wish for!
 
nativeponies said:
There are far too many vehicles on the roads these days and anything that help protect should be used.

Just my POV.
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Hit the nail on the head- It never fails to amaze me how many riders put themselves and others in danger by taking them on the most busy, gross roads.
Roads are a very dangerous place for horses, the reasons are countless- forget your BP, your hi viz and your hats, I might be considered care free by many of the forum users on here for my love of my patey hat- but I love my horses and myself far too much to hack on busy roads.
 
RunToEarth said:
Hit the nail on the head- It never fails to amaze me how many riders put themselves and others in danger by taking them on the most busy, gross roads.
Roads are a very dangerous place for horses, the reasons are countless- forget your BP, your hi viz and your hats, I might be considered care free by many of the forum users on here for my love of my patey hat- but I love my horses and myself far too much to hack on busy roads.
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That's good point and another way of looking at it I suppose, however I've had more near miss moments, acts of stupidity and seen far worse drivers on the country lanes than on the roads where there is more constant flow of traffic, but that's just my experiance, can't speak for others. :)
 
Ah, but sadly not every one has the choice of fields to ride in :(

I have recently looked for new livery/fields for our lot. The hacking is limited. I have been put off some (and have moved yards in the past) because it is straight out onto a busy country lane, but this has limited my options considerably :(

We are in the fortunate position that when this house sells, (whenever that might be!), we can buy a house with land, and due to my job/company we can look for somewhere that has good local off-road hacking. But we are very lucky in that respect.
 
Some riders have no option than to ride on busy roads though, myself being one of them. Plenty of bridleways - but you've got to get to them somehow!

Yes, there is more traffic nowadays, but as the British population increases and rural areas become more and more urbanised it is going to becoming an increasing problem for more and more riders. I've seen a huge difference in the past ten years alone, and everywhere you go there seems to be more building and development taking place - having the ability too remain off road with our horses is going to become increasingly difficult, we need to be able to get along with other road users, not make us out to be some dangerous thing that shouldn't be there, educating drivers would be one positive step to helping horse riders who have to use the roads.
 
IMO 3rd party liability insurance should be compulsory just as it is for other road users - it means that others are not left worse off if you are at fault in the event of an accident. I'd be pretty miffed if I or my horse were injured or worse by an uninsured driver who was at fault.

In the event of an 'accident' in which a horse rider was found at fault I believe that they could be pursued personally for damages in the event that adequate insurance is not in place.

Hats and high viz I guess are a personal choice. I would never go out with out them - dark horse, dark jods etc even on a sunny day can be very hard to spot walking along a road that's in shadow. BP - does sometimes depends on the horse and how hot it is but I usually wear one.

Not wearing high viz could well be considered a contributory factor in an accident and could reduce any potential claim you may have against a third party - not worth the risk IMO and it does reduce the chances of having that accident in the first place.

Hat and BP well if you make the choice not to wear them and are more seriously injured then that's up to you. I'm not sure where it would stand with being a contributory factor in the event of a claim though - I think if I was a driver I'd be a bit put out if a claim against me was increased because injuries were more severe cos the rider chose not to wear a hat . . . . .

Would not like to see legislation (except for 3rd party insurance) though.
 
I agree with hats, HI Vis and 3rd party liability insurance being compulsery, but the BP thing I'd personaly say no as I don't see how much extra protection they would give with respect to the typical types of accidents/injuries that are likely to occur on the roads.
 
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I think in this day and age (where people claim for anything and everything) I think having 3rd party insurance is just common sense to be honest. Maybe it should be made a legal requirement but it'd be pretty hard to police wouldn't it? I mean car insurance is compulsory but there still seem to be a heck of a lot of uninsured drivers and vehicles out there!

I don't think you can really make wearing hi-viz, hats and certainly not body protectors compulsory. If you did then you'd have to make the same things compulsory to cyclists surely and also say that those on motorbikes would have to wear body protectors too? Oh, and what about pedestrians when walking on country roads with no footpaths - they'd have to wear high viz too in that case surely???

As for riding on roads, I have ridden on roads all my life and will continue to. The amount of people who want 'bombproof' horses increases and how do horses get 'bombproofed' without seeing what's out there in the world? Actually riding on main roads in my eyes is safer as they are wider, vehicles have more room to pass and in general visibility is better and you are seen earlier than on narrow country lanes with high hedges. Those are the dangerous roads IMO - I think what would help is if these roads actually had a different (lower) speed limit applied. Why the national speed limit is applicable on these roads is beyond me. It should be reduced to 40mph in most cases i feel and 30 in areas where there are particular issues to do with visibility.
 
suzi said:
IMO 3rd party liability insurance should be compulsory just as it is for other road users - it means that others are not left worse off if you are at fault in the event of an accident. I'd be pretty miffed if I or my horse were injured or worse by an uninsured driver who was at fault.

In the event of an 'accident' in which a horse rider was found at fault I believe that they could be pursued personally for damages in the event that adequate insurance is not in place.
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Correct, you could be pursued, and this could lead to bankruptcy loss of your house etc.

The consequences for someone injured in an accident involving an uninsured roaduser as very serious when you consider that they may have injuries that mean they can never work again, need full time care and a specially adapted bungalow. As far as I am aware the Motor Insurance Bureau does not cover people in accidents with uninsured cyclists or horse riders, although the MIB does not provide the same level of compensation that a private insurance claim does.
 
In fact, I've just remembered this, out riding this morning before work and some nugget in a car tried to squeeze between me and cordaned off road works (which was the full side of the opposite side of the road... fenced/coned off correctly by the highways, complete with warning signs) and bloody ran into barrier/fence thing that they'd put round it trying to squeeze past instead of waiting a few seconds, knocked the sign off and spooked my horse!

I felt like saying I know you've got your glasses on mate but might want to try a thicker pair!....imberseal!!
 
touchstone said:
Some riders have no option than to ride on busy roads though, myself being one of them. Plenty of bridleways - but you've got to get to them somehow!

Yes, there is more traffic nowadays, but as the British population increases and rural areas become more and more urbanised it is going to becoming an increasing problem for more and more riders. I've seen a huge difference in the past ten years alone, and everywhere you go there seems to be more building and development taking place - having the ability too remain off road with our horses is going to become increasingly difficult, we need to be able to get along with other road users, not make us out to be some dangerous thing that shouldn't be there, educating drivers would be one positive step to helping horse riders who have to use the roads.
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But horses are dangerous on the road, no matter how bombproof, horses are possibly the most dangerous thing on the road.
I'm not just saying this because I'm fortunate enough to not have to ride out on the road (I pick and choose roadwork I do) I'm saying it because I cannot understand WHY some people ride on the roads they do. Surely you have a choice of yard, or at least in the cases I have seen, these people should be asking themselves why they are putting themselves in the dangerous situation they do.
I have had more than my fair share of very dangerous situations, and though I'm perfectly entitled to be on that road, in that situation, it came to the point where I realised that I was risking everything I had when I didn't actually have to. I would move mountains to keep my horses off of the busy roads after the things I have seen on my busy main road in the last three years.
 
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