Have you ever had a rotational fall? Plus question..

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If so under what circumstances and what happened to you horse?

I had one on my little pony warming up for a novice pairs hunter trial with my mum! I was about 8/9, pony 12.2. He was young and I must have got too close (behind mum!) and he never really took off. Log was only 2'9'' but I guess that's enough if horse has short legs! Pony fine, broken collar bone for me.

My dad has had a couple of more serious ones.

One was on a big, IDx type who had ring bone, was on bute so sound but not quite right. Dad was still pushing him hunting (was probably a bit drunk TBH!) and jumped a hedge but he ran to the side and tipped up on an open gate on the other side of the hedge! Horse fine, dad had broken ribs/collar bone and needed the "kiss of life".. by an ugly old man..
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Serves him right!

Other time was on a young horse and he went for a very large gate instead of a small hunt jump at the side (horse not dad!). Horse was severely winded and stayed down for a few minutes on top of my dads legs... good job it was his legs!! They were both ok afterwards apart from a bit of fluid drainage from my dads leg.

So - question. I'm thinking rotational falls normally happen if:

A) horse/rider not experienced enough to be doing what they are doing
B) horse tired
C) Something not quite right with horse
D) horse being pushed to absolute limit physically

Can it just happen anyway even if you are within your comfort zone and everyone is fit/healthy?
C
 
I had one at a PN event (highclere) at a corner on a downhill slope. Corner had a edge on the top of the fence horse got knees under the lip of the fence. He rotated as the fence was portable and came out of the ground which allowed him to continue rotating.

In answer to your questions

I had been happily round intermediates. Horse had won at PN already with me.

Horse was fit and not tired

He was healthy as was I.

PN was as far as he was capable. We did make it round a Novice but felt it was a step to far..

Unfortunately a rotational fall can just happen. I was riding sensibly. I do have doubts about the safety of the fence. They have since advised that the edge to the fence was unsafe and shouldn't be used.
 
Yep, but it wasnt bad in comparison to others.

Pony and I at our first pc area trials in 2003, he was a little strong and I a bit inexperienced
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We were coming in too fast to a water jump (it was a simple drop down in) and I tried to stop but alas no breaks (pony wanted home!!)
But anyways we went in but pony brought foot up too quickly (i think) and hit the edge of the drop, ending up in us going into rotational fall into the water.
I was submerged and pony was too, we were soaked totally through.
I got back on though and finished the course
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with duckweed hanging off my ear
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submerged:
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(I have a set of three of these - currently in kitchen entertaining guests
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)
The drop into the jump is to the right of the piccy - we completely rotated!!

In normal cirumstances, I think if a horse is too tired it is more likely to fall, but if a horse is untidy in front then moreso.

Oh, edited to say - it was a 2f9 course
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I had one when I was about 11 out hunting on my 14.2, jumping a big hedge - was not out of her limit, but stopped before it to catch a horse and help some one get on, was out with the jockey's from the yard and followed them in, for getting that my pony needed a bit more impulsion than the Point to pointers, and flipped her up
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,we were both fine, only her neck lay across my legs. Although my pride was dented - was the top topic of piss taking for months
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So was down to lack of experience on my part.
 
Rotational falls can be an absolute fluke yes!

I had one earlier this year on an advanced horse & I like to believe I'm an experienced rider riding 10-12 eventers every day. This particular fall was at a 1* event over a fairly unassuming fence. It was about halfway round the course my horse was fit enough and nowhere near tired & was well within her limits physically & mentally. She is a very reliable xc horse & I had never had a problem with her before & I had never had a serious fall.
We have video & photographic evidence of the whole debarcle. My trainer, mother, owners, doctors & other riders were amongst the spectators & all said that they did not know why it happened. All the fence judge wrote on the accident report was that she thinks my horse was distracted- possibly by a camera flash as there were a lot of spectators though we cannot be sure- not as a result of a tired horse, poor rider judgement of either pace or stride to the fence or any other possible reason & it wasn't a badly desigend or placed fence.

My horse was absolutely fine, just a little sore. I suffered a double pneumothorax (a lung injury) and a fairly badly broken collarbone but managed to discharge myself from hospital the next day to watch the showjumping! I was very lucky!

Basically riders involved in rotational falls tend to get bad press as they are presumed to have made a poor judgement- but this is not always the case!
 
I've watched a number of videos of rotational falls and the ones I've seen have been low speed, a couple were re-presentations after a run out. The low speed means rider and horse stay together in the fall. I have heard about another where the speed was fast but the hrse and rider went same way resulting in impact some distance from the fence.
I am currently preparing a lecture on "fallers and fence judges", don't know if any one would be interested in the figures???
 
As you say though vic, is was towards the top end of your horses capabilities... I once had a fall, not a rotational but that kind of thing, where they hit it but just manage to get their feet, at an open PC event (long time ago but it seemed more Novice level?) on my horse who was brill PN, but I think a big corner was a bit much for his confidence level more than anything XC.
 
I had a rotational fall in a PN. My horse was inexperianced at the level, but she is more than capable, and I have previously evented at Intermediate. The fall came at fence 7 a arrowhead fence on a down hill approach. I was a bit far off it, but my horse simply didn't jump high enough.

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Horse and rider were both fine, but only IMO due to my point 2 air jacket, as the horse stood on my chest as she got up, and it definatly saved me a very serious injury. The fence judges were amazed I was ok, and wouldnt let me move until a doctor told them I was somehow absolutly fine!!!!!

The reasons OP gave can certainly contribute to a rotational fall, but any rider or horse error can contribute.
 
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Basically riders involved in rotational falls tend to get bad press as they are presumed to have made a poor judgement- but this is not always the case!

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I would not say that at all. Especially as most of the ones that get "bad press" are from top events which are designed to push horse and rider to the limit!

I guess there will always be random accidents like yours -people and horses are not machines after all!
 
That looks nasty!!! All horses I've evented (only at PN!) are normally seasoned hunters by that time so they've already made their silly mistakes out hunting..

But a much worse place to make them really, with no vet/doc on stand by!
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I had a rotational fall at Weston Park CCI** in 2003. I was riding a horse who was a xc machine! It happened at fence 5 (the horse was by no means tired at that stage!) a table approached downhill. The horse had a tremendous amount of scope. The horse had a fractured pelvis and I fractured and dislocated my wrist, fractured my collar bone and had nerve damage to my upper leg as the horse landed on my lower body. I was lucky to have those injuries! A fellow competitor saw me fly as he was on the roads and tracks and said he didn't believe there was any real reason for it (agreed by the fence judge). As many others who end up in hospital at an event I jus wanted to get back to see my horse and get in the bar!! X
 
wrote a reply which disappeared grrr

Basically I had one SJing!! Was jumping a 1m-1m10ish class (can't remember was years ago!) on Dan. Fence near edge of arena which was upright constructed of very heavy 90cmish wall type filler with poles on top. For whatever reason Dan didn't pick up in front and somersaulted.

According to friends watching just metres away I landed slightly to right and immediately rolled away further to the right and pretty much out the ring! Dan in the mean time landed head first and then landed on his side basically where I had originally landed. Had I not instinctively rolled out of the way I would have been squashed by 17h2 of large warmblood!

Thankfully both of us were fine although a bit stiff.

As for why it happened no clue, height was our normal height which we were regularly being placed at, he was youngish (6 i think!) but we had jumped bigger tracks and he was fit and healthy. I reckon he lost concentration and due to the filler being particularly heavy (each half took two strong men to lift!) it caused him to flip but I really don't know. It certainly wasn't out of our capabilities!
 
yes out hunting there was a small ditch covered by leaves we were just behind master, masters horse put one leg down it and pecked but managed to save itself my 14.1hh pony put both front legs in it and somersaulted over and landed on me. After that I don't remember much. Luckily though other than a broken saddle tree, being concussed (on my part) , very bruised and sore both of us were fine probably because it was quite muddy at the time. Completely fluke accident just one of those things that happen
 
But what is the top end of a horse's ability? He found PN easy.... but struggled show jumping at novice, he could cope with the xc.
 
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But what is the top end of a horse's ability? He found PN easy.... but struggled show jumping at novice, he could cope with the xc.


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Sorry, I thought you meant XC.
 
I am very grateful to never have had a rotational fall with the horse coming with me (yet), although I have many a time done somersaults myself
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. I have seen several however, and although I agree that most are fluke, I have seen two where it was quite clear that the rider was pushing the horse too hard. Thank god they are quite rare!
 
I've had 2.

The first was a young horse that took fright whilst being ridden in a field and then bolted and tried to jump a large stone wall. He didn't ever really stand a chance of clearing it and hit it just below his shoulders.

I was fired into the ground but, luckily, to the side of the horse and because we landed on a slope we both just rolled for what seemed to be ages.

Surprisingly neither of us was hurt and horse never did anything like that again!

The second was another young horse jumping the first fence on a hunter trial course. She was just distracted by a spectator with an umbrella at the last moment and didn't really take off. Again neither of us was hurt and we carried on round the course jumping the rest clear.

So both mine were due to young horses losing confidence /focus for different reasons.
 
Yes, fairly nasty and from a canter so relatively slow. In a Lucinda Green clinic and horse broke its neck. I think one reason for rotationals that you haven't included is where the "question" is misleading to the horse and/or rider (e.g. false groundline, something visually distracting or something behind or within the fence which the horse can't see or see clearly, or some combination of similar factors). The gate which brought your dad's horse down is one example - the horse didn't know it was there.
 
Hi Starbucks,
Thankfully, i've never had rotational fall.
Someone's novice son on 5 yr old had one recently, which i attribute to both A) and C) in your question. Excellent trainer advised against riding this particular horse to solid fences, as horse crashed through sjs, but he was taken hunting. Thankfully, rider just suffered shoulder injury, when horse caught him with his hoof.......
I'm very aware that excellent event riders have lost their lives to this sort of fall. Tables were modified, breakable things were introduced, etc, etc, but while we all still enjoy riding horses, H+S is impossible to implement!, as the horses haven't read H+S rules!
Thanks to all for info, + best wishes to all, BS x
 
Yes of course. The reason I was saying he fell because he wasn't "quite right" is because he ran to the side (right I think), and so not jumping the part he was meant to. He was a very bold hedge hopper when he was right, and would go where he was put.

Hope that makes sense!
 
I had one SJing too. In an 85cm class (the shame!)
He'd jumped one clear round, was fine through most of the jump off but slipped on take off to the final fence, so took off on one leg, never got high enough, hit the filler and we ended up doing a sort of corkskrew-twisty fall, where he went over the top of me. Neither of us were hurt, but he was a bit shocked for a while and got a bit wary of fillers.

I think the reason he slipped was probably because I just checked him a little as he felt to be flattening - so probably rider error caused it. He'd never slipped before and hasn't slipped since...
 
I had a slow rotational at Tweseldown many years ago. Basicly the take off area (sand) had become deep ,although the apprach to the jump was perfect. I think the horse was fooled by the ground and simply didnt get enough lift for his knees to clear the top pole.Fortunately we were both OK.
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the only one i've ever had was for the same reason as mike007's.
it was a newly-built course, open for a fun ride, and i was the first to jump the fence, it was a newly filled in ditch which hadn’t been given enough time to settle, so my poor lad’s feet sunk in about 8” on take-off, there were two deep holes where his front feet had sunk. (so, not rider or horse error in this case, unusually.)
I remember it all very clearly even though it was over 20 years ago. It was a biggish hedge with post and rail in it, I came down the hill to it, saw a really good shot, horse lurched badly on take off, I had a split second to think “oh ****” and then I was face down in the mud with a mouthful of wet leaves (prob why I remember it so clearly!), turned round to see my horse still upside down (on brand new saddle of course), about 15’ away from me, rolling over and getting up. Definitely a full rotational, witnesses (friends behind me) saw horse’s back end go vertical and thought I’d be a goner.
Possibly because of soft ground, both totally unhurt. very very lucky.

in answer to the question, i think they can 'just happen' but obv unless the ground gives way, or horse slips badly enough to not be able to take off properly, it is always down to either rider error or horse error.
can simply be a case of horse misjudging height of fence too... i think i read that that is what happened when Zara's Tsunami had the fall that broke the horse's neck, she just didn't jump high enough and clipped the top of a simple fence.
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I had one showjumping too - over a 2' upright, horse apparantly got front legs either side of pole, pole didn't snap so we both flipped over, luckily I was thrown clear and he only landed on my elbow (which was fractured but my mum didn't take me to casualty for 4 days, and she's a radiographer so should know better!)
We were both healthy, not tired, and jump was definately not too big for us (I have novice evented before, he would fly 3'3" courses on his forward-going days) but horse was (hmm how do i put is politely) a bit thick...was bringing him on to event and one day you'd spent ages teaching him stuff and have really good lessons where instructors would compliment him, and other days he just went all thug-like and bargy and not using his bonce to work out what we were doing at all. After a second fall where he put a leg down in the middle of a corner (made with sj poles indoors) and kicked me in the head as I fell I decided he possibly wasn't the event horse I was hoping he would be.
He went to a dressage home after that!

Edited to say that both those falls happened in lessons with well known instructors!
 
Watching the Lucinda Green link someone posted the other day (can't for the life of me remember who!) and she was saying that her and a friend had been discussing this and the friend was saying that it seemed to be that riders were holding the horses head to much and trying for the approach that they had in their head, and consequently the horse was unable to sort himself out when he got into trouble....
 
I had one many years ago (20ish) when jumping a hedge with fixed poles on either side of it and parallel to the top of the hedge. It was a huntertrial and the light wasn't good and the very experienced horse who never had a xc fault whilst eventing, tried to put down on the hedge and flipped over when he hit the back pole. I can still remember exactly the sensation of hitting the ground and then the impact of him hitting me. He had a neck injury and had to be retired and I had a smashed shoulder and collar bone. I think the bad light caused his misjudgement.
 
That makes sense - but the point I was making is that the horse wouldn't have come down if the gate hadn't been there, even though he'd drifted right.

Gosh, out of a small sample, interesting that several of these responses relate rotationals involving hedges with something fixed in or around them.
 
Yes i had one this summer on my JA sjing pony jumping at 2'3 showjumping course, i had jumped that pony at fox hunter level may years ago he is now 20 and gets so bored i thought id take him out to have a bit of fun, won the class before! turned to a very little tripple bar and he thought he could fly and took off a stide to early - looking back we had the fence before down so he was rushing and i did drop him in it and go well you can sort this out
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(i trust that pony with my life- he helped be out around 1.25 tracks!)
however i have had many others opinions on it (small RC so you can imagine what they all said!) some said he looked as if he 'fainted before the jump' others say he tripped some say i was going way to fast the vet said he has harldy any sight left (although he didnt have very good sight when he was12)!!
he rotated all the way over i got up (with broken collar bone before him!) insisted i was fine and checked him out he was sound although two days later it was obvious he had seriously injured his check ligament - who knoes if he did this before or during!
also the ground was very very hard i personally think had the ground been softer i wouldnt have broken my collar bone! the pony contines to jump over the 5 bar gate daily (even 2 days after the accident - bloody welsh!)
 
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