Having a happy horse PTS?

dwi

dwi

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I'm all over the place with my emotions at the moment so really just need to share but would appreciate any thoughts.

D looks sound to anyone but the specialist vet. She will happily walk, trot, canter and pop a small fence out on a hack with no sign of discomfort. Turn her out with her field buddy and she'll hoon around like a youngster with lovely flowing paces. Her lameness is only mild and was only found because I wanted her checked prior to selling her. Call me an idiot but I didn't think it fair to let someone else pay for a vetting that she might fail. I got a vet to check her over for my peace of mind and was told she is mildly lame on all four legs.

The rational side of me says that if the vets initial feeling that it isn't curable turns out to be right that I should have her PTS. She would be a rubbish companion as she'd have to be kept in 23 hours a day for 8 months of the year to stop her getting fat if you didn't work her. She'd hate this, get crabby and difficult to handle. I'm not prepared to condemn her to spending the rest of her life in a stable.

Now I'd always been against riding a buted horse but I'm wondering if it might be a better solution than having her PTS? Would you put a horse on loan as a hack if you knew they would need bute to keep them completely sound?
 
Has she had tests etc done to find out what is causing this mild lameness ? personally if she could be light hacked on a bute a day to keep her pain free I don't see there should be a problem with that, surely any option, if its reasonable and the horse doesn't suffer, is better than having her pts, good luck x
 
I'm so sorry to hear this, poor girl. I dont really know the answer to your questions but there is a new bute alternative called vetrofen. . . mite be worth a look?

Good luck with your decision.
 
instead of bute or danelon why not try global herbs alpha bute its brilliant stuff. If she is happy and can be used as a light hack on this everyday I definitely would not pts
 
You know, I am having a similar time of it so I feel for you.
As you may or may not know, seren has one rotated pedal bone and is never right on anything less than perfect ground.
She did get shod with her special shoes today so I am hoping this will help.

Now regards the riding and bute thing, it has taken me some time to get my head around the idea of riding a mildly lame horse on bute, but I am almost there.

I am moving yards this weekend and hope to get out riding and access how she is doing and bute if needs be.
This is the vets advice to me, my mare is similar to yours, she will gain weight if I am not careful. Vet said it is best to keep her going with some bute then retiring her.

It may take a while to get your head around it but dont jump the gun, it is mild lameness as you say and if I was to have a vetting I think I would be found to be 'mildly lame' and I am only 29, so you have to think of it like this too.
Us humans take painkillers when we need them.

I really do understand though, I am having to change my mindset about this and its taking a while but I feel I am getting there. All the best x
 
I think there are a lot of horses out there who are on some sort of regular pain killers and I think as long as it is used to help them (and not to mask pain in competition or for a sale) then why not keep them on it.

If she is the type of horse that will easily find someone who wants a hack or light schooling then loan her out with all her problems in the open. At least that way if her lameness does get worse you still have control over her future.
 
I think in this case, she would tell you if she wasn't happy working and so I think there is no harm keeping her in light work provided that it won't make her worse.

I do think you'll need to keep an eye on her, and see what your vet says about bute - my only concern would be if she is buted up, then if her condition does deteriorate, you won't necessarily be able to tell. I guess it depends what exactly is wrong with her - generally though I would say so long as she is happy in work then you should let her keep going, obviously on a light workload, and just monitor the situation.
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You dont say what the vet thinks is wrong with her and it seems a bit drastic to consider PTS just yet.

Many horses are mildly lame and its never noticed and they go on happlily for years not even on bute. There may be many other therapies and natural products you could use to help and loads of horses live well on bute. Personally I would try all other avenues first and PTS would be a last resort if the mare really wouldn't be happy doing nothing or you felt a loan or sale home would not be able to manage any conditon that she might have.

I hope nobody puts me down because I need a couple of paracetamol to keep me going.
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My mare was absolutely saintly, but I had to retire her due to arthritis, she was very bad with it. I did ride her for a bit on bute, but she got worse, very quickly. All I can say, is, if its mild and she can be exercised on bute, give it a go and see how she goes on it. I wouldnt beat yourself up, just think positively about it. If it happened to me again, with any of my other horses, I would do it. good vibes to you.
 
My much loved, then 15 year old, gelding was diagnosed with kissing spines three years ago. The position of the condition in his case meant that he was uncomfortable on a circle, doing laterel work etc, but was fine for hacking on a fairly loose rein, not the sort of riding I wanted to do. So I advertised him for loan, and he's gone to a lovely lady who just wants to potter around the countryside a couple of times a week. She adores him, he's getting pampered, and because I still own him I can go to see him occasionally and I know he will never be asked to do more than he is happy with. I gave her some bute for him when she first had him, and told her that I was quite happy for him to have it if she felt he needed it, but as far as Iknow she's never used it. I ride him myself a couple of times a year so that I can feel how he's going to make sure he's still happy. Hope this helps as it sounds like our situations are similar.
 
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You dont say what the vet thinks is wrong with her and it seems a bit drastic to consider PTS just yet.

Many horses are mildly lame and its never noticed and they go on happlily for years not even on bute. There may be many other therapies and natural products you could use to help and loads of horses live well on bute. Personally I would try all other avenues first and PTS would be a last resort if the mare really wouldn't be happy doing nothing or you felt a loan or sale home would not be able to manage any conditon that she might have.

I hope nobody puts me down because I need a couple of paracetamol to keep me going.
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Agree with this, should say as well, my horse went on for 10 years very arthitic, until she went down in the field , and couldnt get up, despite our efforts.I then had to have her put to sleep. Oh how I cried losing her, I would have kept her going forever if I could have done, she didnt want to give up, she just couldnt get up, and she knew that the time had come, that she had to leave me. (Still welling up typing this, sorry, hope Im helping , not making you feel worse)
 
If she looks and feels sound and enjoys hacking, try loaning her as a hack. Schooling and putting pressure on is difficult because you never know how much resistance is normal and how much is due to pain, but if she will hack out happily, it really doesn't matter that she's actually slightly unsound IMO.

If she's a safe hack, you shouldn't have a problem finding a home as long as she doesn't feel obviously unsound to ride and you explain that she's only available for quiet hacking.

ETA If you want to PTS, there's nothing wrong with that option either, she wouldn't know anything about it.
 
Thanks for all your stories.

Do you think there are people out there who would loan a horse as a light hack that aren't completely nervous nellies? She's lovely for me but she will spook occassionally if she thinks the rider lacks confidence themselves.
 
yes, Im sure there is... especially those that like hacking out in company, for a leisurely hack. Is she fine in company, like my gelding, prefers hacking in company. That way she will be kept fit.
 
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Thanks for all your stories.

Do you think there are people out there who would loan a horse as a light hack that aren't completely nervous nellies? She's lovely for me but she will spook occassionally if she thinks the rider lacks confidence themselves.

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Yes I think you could find something for her. Alot of people enjoy light hacking, all the best x
 
There totally are people out there. As you probably know, my mare is out on loan as a hack, and she is doing superbly. I'm sure your vet will be honest with you.

Be warned the lameness may not even respond to bute- beans doesn't.

Don't give up on her yet, may be a simple problem. As others have said, many horses go on happily for years with or without bute. You would have trouble finding a horse that is totally sound over the age of 12 I reckon.
 
just an opinion - be careful about loaning out and who too...
wont go into it as im sure you all know the horror stories..

i also have no issue with putting a horse to sleep in situations like this, to make sure the horse isnt passed about or whatever, they have no concept of tomorow - its just us.
 
TBH, I'm 22 and I'm not sound, my mare is 18 and I do doubt she would pass a vetting, but she jumps 1m courses easily and up to 1.15m single fences/grids and shes only 13.1h!

First port of call if it were me would be to find out WHY she seems slightly lame on all four legs, then go from there.
 
If you're not happy about giving her bute you could try magnet therapy boots. I had success with these on an elderly TBxWelshD. Do be aware though (as my vet rather huffily told me once lol) that bute is not just a painkiller but is also an anti-inflammatory. If the problem is that you are wary of using bute long-term, we had an Appaloosa mare who lived to be 32 and was on bute for the last 5 years of her life, with no noticeable side effects, except that she seemed very tired every few months. When this happened we stopped the bute for about a week, to get her back on track, then started the bute again. This system worked well for her.
 
Before going down the bute road, try accupuncture, my mare appeared unsound on one fore leg, turned out in her case to be neck problem. Our vet does accupuncture and chiro, the mare is now sound as ever. It might be worth a try.
 
I think there are probably plenty of happy horses out there who are not 100% sound (how many of us are after all!). There are plenty of people who are very capabe riders but do not want to do anything more than hack so I think it's perfectly reasonable that someone would be keen to loan her.

Yes there are horror stories about loans going wrong but I bet the successful stories far outweigh the bad- they just don't make as interesting 'tales'. I have loaned ponies and loaned mine out without issue.

Certainly considering having a horse PTS who as you say isn't even lame to the untrained eye would seem rather drastic to me! Especially as the vet hasn't even diagnosed anything.
 
I think your being a bit quick on the PTS option! We have a hunter who's not 100% in front (in fact we have about 5) but they still hunt the whole season and love it, they just need a bute the day after to stop any stiffness. There is no way any of these horses would ever get through a vetting, but they are still perfectly useful horses who enjoy their lives. Just because a horse won't pass flexion dosen't mean it needs shooting! Or that someone won't buy it! If your honest in your advert and her price reflects this fact then she would sell, if you wanted to sell her that is.
 
QR - think you need to find out why there is lameness, look at treatment options and go from there.

And if the horse need supporting with Bute or Danillon - then no problem, although Danillon would be my preference.
 
Agree with Towerhamlets - reading your post i felt shocked - why on earth would you pts???
I would be investigating whats wrong - and if your so worried about horse getting fat put a grazing muzzle on or put her in a strip!
 
I think if the horse needs medication, then unless you are lucky like the earlier poster, there is a significant risk of the horse suffering while out on loan (from not getting medication or being loaned/sold on as sound). Unless your loaner can keep the horse at your current stables I would not recommend loaning, why not hack them yourself?


You should no put the horse down if they are happy, what a rotten reward for the service they have given you! Love them and care for them like the member of your family they are supposed to be, even if it inconveniences your own plans and do the right thing but when the time is right. Maybe a grass livery to reduce costs would enable you to get new horse as well.
 
We sold a lovely clydesdale x, at 16 yrs old, with mild athritis in her fetlock joint. She was hardly lame and still enjoyed life and couldn't bear the thought of her just going to a companion home or pts.
We advertised her totally honestly and were inundated with enquiries and found a lovely light hacking home where she was still rideable, until 22 when pts for an unrelated issue. The new owner took on board her condition and had her regularily checked by the vet, fed her numerous supplements and kept her out 24/7, so her lamness never progressed further than what she had when we sold her.
Bear in mind, if your mare is diagnosed with any arthritic type problem gentle excercise is essential, so to sell/loan to a happy hacking home should still be an option.
Good luck with whatever decsion you make.
 

I know that this horse was for sale, having followed previous posts about your indecision over selling her, and then seeing the add on Horsemart (just my sort of horse!) followed by your first post re her lameness.

If the reasons for selling her have not gone away (and are not likely to) you really do need more information and a diagnosis from the vet. Some people will happily take on a horse needing medication as long as you are up front with them regarding what she can and can't do. However, remember that once she is out of your hands, you can not, with the best will in the world, guarantee her future. If none of the potential buyers picked up her lameness this time, then that could happen again with a seller less scrupulous and honest than you.

When you have a firm diagnosis/prognosis from the vet, maybe then consider a loan, and if you can't find one, then consider pts if your circumstances haven't changed.

I understand how you feel, as I too am the owner of a horse who b0110ck$ around the field like an idiot, bucking and twisting and generally having a high old time of it, yet is unable to get out of walk when I'm on her back. This spring/summer will be the last chance for her to come right, and as selling her is out of the question and I wouldn't trust anyone else to manage her laminitis AND she isn't traffic-proof, I have already started considering the possibility of having her pts.

Good luck but whatever happens, make sure you do what's best for the horse.
 
get a diagnosis and i would do light work with her she can cope with.
if this means bute then its best to do that and give her a nice 5/10 etc years than PTS....
there are lots of competant hackers out there, just get a loan agreement etc drawn up
 
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I think your being a bit quick on the PTS option! We have a hunter who's not 100% in front (in fact we have about 5) but they still hunt the whole season and love it, they just need a bute the day after to stop any stiffness. There is no way any of these horses would ever get through a vetting, but they are still perfectly useful horses who enjoy their lives. Just because a horse won't pass flexion dosen't mean it needs shooting! Or that someone won't buy it! If your honest in your advert and her price reflects this fact then she would sell, if you wanted to sell her that is.

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^^ I second this ^^

My boy has ringbone in front and though I've stopped hunting him now because he was coming back slightly lame, up until then he would have a bute in the evening and another the next morning. It's no different to me having to take an Ibuprofen the day after hunting because he's pulled so hard all day long!

He has spavins and because they were stuck in so long over Xmas, he seized up and on vet's advice, is now being worked on bute for a couple of weeks to get him moving properly again. He wouldn't pass a flexion test and would fail a vetting because he does sometimes look a bit off in front and can be a bit stiff behind, but he still enjoys his work. At the grand old age of 15 (well, this spring anyway), he will be spending the spring and summer doing HT, XC, my poor attempts at classical dressage, and generally having fun. If he has to have a bute the day after a HT occasionally then I don't see a problem with that. IMHO there are probably a lot of horses out there who are slightly off - giving your girl half a bute a day to keep her moving (though I'd try something like Devils Claw maybe first?), comfortable and hacking is very different to having to give her several bute to cover up a bad lameness then expecting her to event on it.

And yes, I think there are plenty of people out there who would loan a hack who aren't a bundle of nerves.
 
I wouldn't put a happy horse to sleep.

But I don't think keeping a horse stabled for 23 hours a day long term or in a pen with no equine companionship is fair either and if this turns out to be the only option for your horse then I would PTS.

I'm still not sure on my feelings regarding giving bute to make a horse rideable.

As long as her lameness and any associated pain is manageable it is likely that you'd be able to loan her out or possibly sell her, however her value would have decreased from what you had her advertised her at recently.

Will you not be in a position to keep her yourself, given that you were/are thinking about buying a youngster once you had sold Daisy?
(I thought you were selling her because you needed the money from the sale of her and your transport. Please correct me if I have this wrong)

I really think you need to have a full lameness work-up done so you know exactly what the issue is and then go from there.
 
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