Dressage Having a test re-scored/re-marked/re-judged

[shortstuff99]

Has anyone ever sent a test to BD asking for it to be re-judged (not quite sure what the correct term is?)? I performed what I thought was a good test at the weekend for it to have been pretty harshly (and what I think un-fairly!) marked. This is not sour grapes I've had bad tests before and I have agreed with the marking but this time I really don't!

Does anyone know what the process is or has done it who could advise me?

 

[only_me]

Can’t really have it re judged if they don’t see your test?

Might just be best to ignore it and do test under a different judge to compare

 

[ester]

'If you are not happy with the way you have been judged, please let us know in writing, preferably with your score sheet enclosed and a video of the test if this is available. Send this to Angela Green at British Dressage, Building 2020, Copse Drive, Meriden Business Park, Meriden, West Midlands CV5 9RG. '

 

[ihatework]

I’ve never done it, but you would have to have your test on video which I presume you have?

Honestly, my general feeling is life is too short to get het up about it. IME, for every test I have done that I felt was seriously under-marked, I have probably had just as many I felt were over marked.

I think you should at least sleep on it a few days and get someone else qualified to review the video before sending to BD. If after that you still feel very aggrieved and there is a specific outcome you want (ie think you did a regionals qualification etc) then approach BD

 

[shortstuff99]

I’ve never done it, but you would have to have your test on video which I presume you have?

Honestly, my general feeling is life is too short to get het up about it. IME, for every test I have done that I felt was seriously under-marked, I have probably had just as many I felt were over marked.

I think you should at least sleep on it a few days and get someone else qualified to review the video before sending to BD. If after that you still feel very aggrieved and there is a specific outcome you want (ie think you did a regionals qualification etc) then approach BD

Yes I will do this, just wanted to know if anyone had ever done it before as people I have shown it too are also baffled by the scoring.

 

[Silver Clouds]

I competed UA a few weeks ago at a new venue, was baffled when I saw the very low overall mark- was 10% lower than I'd ever scored with this horse at this level. When I read the comments I realised that my name was on someone else's test sheet (and presumably someone else got mine), the comments described a completely different horse/test, and ended with a lecture about how I really should know that the rider is required to salute at the end of the test- I have NEVER forgotten to halt and salute . I am still unsure whether I should be livid or laughing... I have tried to find out who to complain to, but everyone seems to be passing the buck (it was held at- and run by- a local ag college). I'm not sure I want to waste my money going back to that venue, but it's the only one that continues all winter in my area.

In my case the complaint would be that the judge hadn't checked who I was before starting and had therefore not realised(?!) that her paperwork was muddled up. I'm not sure how, without a video of the test, you could prove harsh marking (I do feel for you though!). If you have several other test sheets at the same level that show higher marks maybe that would be evidence?

I compete on my own so understand that not everyone has a helper to video for them, but sometimes wish I did!

 

[shortstuff99]

I competed UA a few weeks ago at a new venue, was baffled when I saw the very low overall mark- was 10% lower than I'd ever scored with this horse at this level. When I read the comments I realised that my name was on someone else's test sheet (and presumably someone else got mine), the comments described a completely different horse/test, and ended with a lecture about how I really should know that the rider is required to salute at the end of the test- I have NEVER forgotten to halt and salute . I am still unsure whether I should be livid or laughing... I have tried to find out who to complain to, but everyone seems to be passing the buck (it was held at- and run by- a local ag college). I'm not sure I want to waste my money going back to that venue, but it's the only one that continues all winter in my area.

In my case the complaint would be that the judge hadn't checked who I was before starting and had therefore not realised(?!) that her paperwork was muddled up. I'm not sure how, without a video of the test, you could prove harsh marking (I do feel for you though!). If you have several other test sheets at the same level that show higher marks maybe that would be evidence?

I compete on my own so understand that not everyone has a helper to video for them, but sometimes wish I did!

That sounds a nightmare! It is definitely the correct score-sheet and luckily I do have a video of the test and I keep watching it while going through the comments and honestly I can't see what the judge is getting at.

 

[ester]

In my case the complaint would be that the judge hadn't checked who I was before starting and had therefore not realised(?!) that her paperwork was muddled up. I'm not sure how, without a video of the test, you could prove harsh marking (I do feel for you though!). If you have several other test sheets at the same level that show higher marks maybe that would be evidence?

I compete on my own so understand that not everyone has a helper to video for them, but sometimes wish I did!

TBF to the judge it is the writer who fills in that part of the sheet. If you were wearing a number I wouldn't necessarily check who I thought you were. It can also depend on the quality of the stewarding if someone is missing etc.

 

[Littlebear]

I sent in a complaint with a video once, I was called over after finishing my test and told that the judge thought my horse was lame and had marked my test down accordingly! My argument was that if she had seen lameness she should have eliminated me not harshly marked the entire test.
Luckily I had a video of the whole thing, nobody could spot lameness, BD seemed to take it quite seriously and their committee also agreed that there was no lameness shown and although they couldn't rescore my test from where the video was they did take it up with the judge and implemented a rule that you cannot mark any unlevelness down for more than 4 movements without eliminating.
If you genuinely feel that your sheet is wrong for some reason then send it in with video evidence and at least the judge can have feedback that way.
To be honest I have had scores with up to 14% variations I wouldn't be that worried about, miffed and disappointed yes, but sometimes you do have to take a lower score and sometimes you get higher than you expect (but nobody complains about those )

 

[McFluff]

If you have the video, it may be worth a try.
For the first time I was upset by judging last month, so I know what you mean.
For me, it wasn’t the score, as just a half mark difference across a test can make 5% difference. And I suspect I’ve been over marked as much as undermarked. Pretty sure that balances out.
My issue was that I did two tests, first one was OK, lowing score, but when I got the sheet it felt fair (my trainer could have written the comments!). The second test felt a lot better, unfortunately I didn’t get it videoed. I was rather shocked to get my lowest ever score (8% lower than the other one that day) and to see the second half of the sheet was all 5 (she’s usually a really consistent 6-7 scorer) and tongue out as the comment with the final comment as ...has serious contact issues. She definitely didn’t have her tongue out (checked with people who were watching, just in case I’m losing my touch), but I couldn’t prove this as no video or photos. She does have a pink chin so I think that fooled the judge, although it never has been an issue before. Showed it to my trainer who said to just put it in the bin. Glad that it wasn’t the first time competing for me as there were no positive or constructive comments at all.
At the end of the day, the judges are just human, and it must be hard to keep fully focussed when judging 30 tests in a day.

 

[Leaping]

I don't think BD will re-score or re-judge your test, there are too many other variables and its unlikely that your video is taken directly from C. However you can send them a copy of the test sheet and the video and they may then review judge training and speak to the judge - which hopefully will benefit everyone in the future.

 

[shortstuff99]

Thank you all, BD e-mailed me the process to make the complaint and I'm currently leaning towards that it's not worth it, although it's very disappointing to be judged so harshly on what is my horses natural way of going.

 

[only_me]

Thank you all, BD e-mailed me the process to make the complaint and I'm currently leaning towards that it's not worth it, although it's very disappointing to be judged so harshly on what is my horses natural way of going.

What is your horses natural way of going?

 

[ester]

Thank you all, BD e-mailed me the process to make the complaint and I'm currently leaning towards that it's not worth it, although it's very disappointing to be judged so harshly on what is my horses natural way of going.

out of interest in case I was wrong is the process different to the one I posted?

 

[shortstuff99]

out of interest in case I was wrong is the process different to the one I posted?

I would have to contact their HR department and would have to state my grievance, plus all evidence and then there would be an investigation etc, I don't want to ruin the judges career or anything I just thought her judging was a bit out!

 

[shortstuff99]

What is your horses natural way of going?

She is Spanish so has a lot of knee action which the judge took much exception to.

 

[ester]

Ah presumably that person is the HR department!

 

[Goldenstar]

I never really have any idea that a test is good , I do however realise when it’s going to be awful .
I have only once ridden a test that I knew was good it was just great I can remember the feeling as I type this .
It would not have mattered what mark I got because the feeling was magic right through the judge agreed and gave it 83% .
Every day out a horse is really such a privilege just enjoy Op and laugh at the bad sheets .

 

[Littlebear]

She is Spanish so has a lot of knee action which the judge took much exception to.

I would make the complaint, give the judge a chance to feedback on your test, there are sooo many Spanish horses doing bd now it would be a shock if any judge is taking exception to their action and a shame for anyone else competing them. Maybe try and word it as feedback rather than complaint and they may be happy to come back to you with reasoning x

 

[shortstuff99]

I would make the complaint, give the judge a chance to feedback on your test, there are sooo many Spanish horses doing bd now it would be a shock if any judge is taking exception to their action and a shame for anyone else competing them. Maybe try and word it as feedback rather than complaint and they may be happy to come back to you with reasoning x

Thank you, maybe I will. Sometimes I think the issue is that while she is Spanish she looks quite warmblood and so I think sometimes the judges mistake her natural action for tension and I wonder if she looked more Spanish whether her action would be understood more! I don't know, I'm really pleased with my horse though, she tried her heart out and I can't ask for more than that!

 

[paddi22]

I have one with a high knee action and theres some judges that just don't like it. I can guess my marks from some judges at this stage. Dressage judging can be so subjective, some judges just do not mark well for high knee action.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How do you know that it was just her high knee action that the judge objected to? What terms did she use when giving her comments?

I'm another who had a marmite horse. Some judges dismissed him as a nondescript little cob, whilst others (the more knowlegable judges, obviously ) saw beyond that to the quality of his work. I'm not sure I'd have been either brave enough or bothered enough to raise a complaint, though.

 

[shortstuff99]

How do you know that it was just her high knee action that the judge objected to? What terms did she use when giving her comments?

I'm another who had a marmite horse. Some judges dismissed him as a nondescript little cob, whilst others (the more knowlegable judges, obviously ) saw beyond that to the quality of his work. I'm not sure I'd have been either brave enough or bothered enough to raise a complaint, though.

She mentioned the knee action in quite a few comments hahaha. I think I may just have to write it off but I just feel sad for my horse really which is probably stupid as she doesn't care!

 

[ester]

as long as she got a pat/carrot/polo I'm sure she thinks she did great!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Directly commenting on and marking down a horse for excessive knee action does sound a bit weird. I've done a fair bit of scribing and that's a new one on me!

Hmm. I'd be tempted to follow this up with BD too, I think.

 

[Ouch05]

I had a very strange thing happen to me. I was due to take part in the area festival when my father in law was taken ill. I did not attend the comp but I also did not call to withdraw as to be honest I was at the hospital with more going on than thinking about dressage. Anyhow, A month later I am checking my scores and noted that I had actually attended!!!!!!! Some how I had a score on record for the event I wouldn't have minded it was a good score but 56% a cool 10% lower than our average.

I contacted BD and the venue it finally got removed but to date I don't know how the venue managed it

 

[shortstuff99]

I had a very strange thing happen to me. I was due to take part in the area festival when my father in law was taken ill. I did not attend the comp but I also did not call to withdraw as to be honest I was at the hospital with more going on than thinking about dressage. Anyhow, A month later I am checking my scores and noted that I had actually attended!!!!!!! Some how I had a score on record for the event I wouldn't have minded it was a good score but 56% a cool 10% lower than our average.

I contacted BD and the venue it finally got removed but to date I don't know how the venue managed it

That is a strange one! I'm still in two minds whether to take it further or not, but thank you everyone for your advice

 

[Silver Clouds]

TBF to the judge it is the writer who fills in that part of the sheet. If you were wearing a number I wouldn't necessarily check who I thought you were. It can also depend on the quality of the stewarding if someone is missing etc.

Unfortunately none of the venues around here use numbers. I was called by name by the collecting ring steward and told to go in, but neither the ring steward or judge/writer asked my name. I think they were in a hurry that day as I was asked to ride my test early (the steward said they wanted to 'crack on'), and as soon as I entered the indoor school (my horse's quarters weren't through the doorway yet!) the bell was rung for me to start my test (rather than having time to ride around the outside of the marked arena first). There weren't any other competitors in the class with the same first or surname or horse's name as me, so my best guess is that they wrote names on the sheets in advance and then muddled the sheets up! I was bothered (AKA really cross!) on the day as it had actually felt like one of the best tests I'd ever ridden, but have moved on now It helped that I had a positive outing the following week at a larger venue that uses BD listed judges for their UA comps as well as affiliated comps