Hay/haylage confusion?

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atropa

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Following on from the couple of threads I've read on people cutting hay -
I bought my first horse last Sept, before I bought her she was fed haylage but it seemed to give her a bit of a runny tummy and she had some faecal scalding around her back end. I switched her onto hay partly because of this and partly because I believed (perhaps incorrectly from what I've been reading on here) that haylage was higher in energy than hay and I didn't think she needed that energy.
In the depths of winter she was having approx 15kg hay overnight and did well on it. A few people on my yard fed haylage as their horses developed coughs. Recently my friend mentioned that she was planning to switch from hay to haylage this coming winter, as the competition horses at the yard she works on are fed it and they all just have one large net a day so it would be cheaper.
Can anyone explain to me the difference in energy content (in genreal, I know it probably differs from cut to cut) between hay and haylage?
And if haylage is higher in moisture, and therefore heavier than hay, should I feed more/less/the same amount of hay? I worked out last year 2.5% of my horse's bodyweight for her hay ration, and if my friend is correct I don't feel I'd be comfortable leaving my horse with just one net of haylage to do her 10 hours overnight.
I've also heard it the opposite way, that you should feed more kg of haylage than you would hay, so I'm thoroughly confused.
Thanks for all your help, and sorry for the dumb questions!
 
It's not the difference in energy between haylage and hay. It's the difference in energy between what grass went into the hay or haylage. .Haylage got its reputation because it used to be made only from fertilized new ley Italian ryegrass, the most sugary stuff you can grow. These days you can buy meadow mix, and even pure timothy, which is very low sugar.


Haylage is also more acidic than hay, I think, and that can affect a horse with a very sensitive gut.

Made from the same field, weight for weight and volume for volume, haylage will be higher in water and lower in calories.

Hope that helps!
 
ycbm said:
It's not the difference in energy between haylage and hay. It's the difference in energy between what grass went into the hay or haylage. .Haylage got its reputation because it used to be made only from fertilized new ley Italian ryegrass, the most sugary stuff you can grow. These days you can buy meadow mix, and even pure timothy, which is very low sugar.


Haylage is also more acidic than hay, I think, and that can affect a horse with a very sensitive gut.

Made from the same field, weight for weight and volume for volume, haylage will be higher in water and lower in calories.

Hope that helps!
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Ah I see, I have to admit my 'haylage is higher energy' idea did come from slightly older horse care books from when I was younger, I did think it may have been outdated.

Another novice type question, is haylage easier to make than hay in Britain because of our wet weather? From your post it seems like I made the right choice, mare #1 can be a bit sensitive in the gut department, and I would probably have to slightly up her forage ration on haylage to give her the same calories?
 
atropa said:
Ah I see, I have to admit my 'haylage is higher energy' idea did come from slightly older horse care books from when I was younger, I did think it may have been outdated.

Another novice type question, is haylage easier to make than hay in Britain because of our wet weather? From your post it seems like I made the right choice, mare #1 can be a bit sensitive in the gut department, and I would probably have to slightly up her forage ration on haylage to give her the same calories?
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Yes, you bale haylage at 30-40% water content, so it's a lot less sensitive to bad weather.

In theory, yes, you actually need to feed more, but as I said only if you are feeding the same grass. I feed ad lib, as much a they will eat, so I don't have that concern, thankfully.

Last year I fed ryegrass/timothy mix and this year I am going for full timothy instead as I have one good doer reaching maturity whose calorie needs are going to be lower from now on.

There are quite a few horses which get the squits on haylage. I bought a mini and was told she could not eat it. But in line with 'it depends what grass it's made of' she hasn't had any problem at all with mine.
 
Really the reason haylage is made these days is partly that farmers are geared up to it: they feed cattle with baled silage which is fermented grass wrapped to exclude air. Silage is quite wet and smells vinegary.
Wrapping grass for silage or haylage or wrapped hay makes it a more reliable crop than hay which is made conventionally.

There is not much difference between wrapped haylage for horses and wrapped hay for horses, which is often fed to racehorses, the wrapping in polythene preserves the forage, and it does not go mouldy in the same way as hay which is baled when it is not dry enough. But it is cut later than silage for cattle, so it should be more stalky and less sugary.
Hope that is not even more confusing, sry....
 
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Thank you both, thats very helpful!

I have to buy my forage from YO and really only have two options, traditional baled unwrapped hay or big bale haylage, so I wouldn't have the option of shopping around for specific grass types at the moment. I will ask her who provides our haylage and what type it is, but think I'm leaning towards hay again for this winter.
 
Taken off the same field haylage will be higher in energy and lower in sugar than hay.
 
Mine was immensely fat and has been on a diet for a couple of months. I feed him the high fibre, low calorie haylage as I know its what its supposed to be. Its not a cheap option, but worth it for me :)
 
Extremely dim question here but why are cows fed silage and not haylage? And wouldn't it be fairly unpalatable once it has gone vinegary? I certainly know that when our haylage gets too hot it makes my eyes water!!
 
eggs said:
Taken off the same field haylage will be higher in energy and lower in sugar than hay.
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How? Where does hay lose the energy to compensate for the bulk and weight of water in haylage? I'm sorry, but I just don't think this is correct.
 
AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
Extremely dim question here but why are cows fed silage and not haylage? And wouldn't it be fairly unpalatable once it has gone vinegary? I certainly know that when our haylage gets too hot it makes my eyes water!!
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Because they can. With four stomachs, they can digest it. It costs less to make on labour. I have been in a hunter yard where they fed the horses the clamped dairy silage. They did fine on it, too.

It's not something I would choose to do myself, but I was an ignorant livery at the time.
 
My boy used to feed at the silage which was put out for cattle, farmer was none to pleased as he [horse] was not one for sharing, but I think it must have been pretty good stuff, some silage can be almost sweet. The winter field had open access to the cattle yard and cattle could graze if they wanted, though they never did.
He was out 24/7 so it would have been a nice change.
 
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ycbm said:
How? Where does hay lose the energy to compensate for the bulk and weight of water in haylage? I'm sorry, but I just don't think this is correct.
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It is indeed correct that haylege is lower in sugars,as some of the sugars are used up in the fermentation process. You can only compare the two on a dry matter basis to be fair and generally due to hay suffering more field loses haylege will be have a higher energy content when from the same grass
 
popsdosh said:
It is indeed correct that haylege is lower in sugars,as some of the sugars are used up in the fermentation process. You can only compare the two on a dry matter basis to be fair and generally due to hay suffering more field loses haylege will be have a higher energy content when from the same grass
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I don't understand Popsdosh? Where does hay lose the energy to, and how?


It was never in dispute that haylage has lower sugar, btw, only that it has higher energy, w/w and v/v.
 
OK, I've done some googling and all I can find is the repeated assertion, with nothing to back it up, that haylage is more digestible than hay.

I can understand that will give higher energy levels per kilo of dry matter.

But haylage is 40% water and hay is 15% or less water. Haylage would have to be MASSIVELY more digestible than hay, FIFTY percent more, per kilo/litre as it is fed, in order to have more energy in it than hay. I just can't see it.

I think people are just confusing energy per kilo of dry matter with energy per kilo as fed from the bale.
 
The difference in DE is mainly due to the fact that you get more leaf fracture in hay which causes a greater loss of nutrients, etc.
 
eggs said:
The difference in DE is mainly due to the fact that you get more leaf fracture in hay which causes a greater loss of nutrients, etc.
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You dont lose energy that way though, do you? Vitamins yes, carbs and proteins and fats? No, they are all still there, arguably more available because of being turned to dust, surely?

I'm still looking for any evidence that a kilo of haylage as eaten has a higher feed value than a kilo of hay as eaten, when made from the same grass.
 
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ycbm said:
You dont lose energy that way though, do you? Vitamins yes, carbs and proteins and fats? No, they are all still there, arguably more available because of being turned to dust, surely?

I'm still looking for any evidence that a kilo of haylage as eaten has a higher feed value than a kilo of hay as eaten, when made from the same grass.
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There doesn't apear to be any concrete scientific unbiased evidence ycbm, only the ingrained opinions of other horsepeople..I have been doing a lot of Googling/thinking on the subject since I posted yesterday and it makes sense to me that hay and haylage cut from the same field = lower sugars and therefore in all likelihood lower energy content, but higher vitamins and minerals in haylage.
 
atropa said:
There doesn't apear to be any concrete scientific unbiased evidence ycbm, only the ingrained opinions of other horsepeople..I have been doing a lot of Googling/thinking on the subject since I posted yesterday and it makes sense to me that hay and haylage cut from the same field = lower sugars and therefore in all likelihood lower energy content, but higher vitamins and minerals in haylage.
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The lower sugars are replaced to an extent by alcohol, though. Hic! My boys love a good alcohol smelling bale :)

I don't think you'll get any difference in minerals unless the minerals are water soluble and you soak the hay. Minerals don't tend to degrade, I don't think.

As you say, an awful lot of old horse lore around haylage, I think. Personally I've come to consider 'premium' haylage, made from fertilized Italian ryegrass reseeded every three years for maximum growth as pure poison!
 
Bonkers2 said:
Really the reason haylage is made these days is partly that farmers are geared up to it: they feed cattle with baled silage which is fermented grass wrapped to exclude air. Silage is quite wet and smells vinegary.
Wrapping grass for silage or haylage or wrapped hay makes it a more reliable crop than hay which is made conventionally.

There is not much difference between wrapped haylage for horses and wrapped hay for horses, which is often fed to racehorses, the wrapping in polythene preserves the forage, and it does not go mouldy in the same way as hay which is baled when it is not dry enough. But it is cut later than silage for cattle, so it should be more stalky and less sugary.
Hope that is not even more confusing, sry....
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Vinegary?? Wouldn't feed my cows vinegary silage!!! Where did you get that from?

My bales smell like a victoria sponge cake!!!! :D

p.s. silaging grass properly will make it sweet as you want the "good" bacteria that produces the right acids that preserve the hay. Plus, if done right some bacteria will actually convert certain properties in hay into folic acid. You still need a mineral lick to balance it all out but haylage is more digestible for cows.

It's far too rich for horses that have evolved to eat low quality dry grasses and shrubs. They have a digestive system that is better at digesting woody material and hard to digest plants. Unless you can use the energy produced quickly, like racehorses or event horses, you are scooping up wasted money. It goes to fat. Great if you want to eat nicely marbled horse steak, but really...? Hay is perfectly suited to most horses in UK... perfect for their digestive system and beneficial.
 
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When feed values are quoted ,THEY ARE ALL ON A PERCENTAGE OF THE DRY MATTER .Hay is typicaly 12% moisture so this must be accounted for :2.5%x 100/88.Haylage is about 35% so 2.5x 100/65.
 
ycbm said:
The lower sugars are replaced to an extent by alcohol, though. Hic! My boys love a good alcohol smelling bale :)

I don't think you'll get any difference in minerals unless the minerals are water soluble and you soak the hay. Minerals don't tend to degrade, I don't think.

As you say, an awful lot of old horse lore around haylage, I think. Personally I've come to consider 'premium' haylage, made from fertilized Italian ryegrass reseeded every three years for maximum growth as pure poison!
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Several misapprehensions in your argument silage does not contain alchohol the sugars convert to acids that preserve the grass.

Leaf is lost during haymaking as every time the crop is tedded there is leaf shatter that just falls to the ground never to be picked up again.

All feed analysis is on a dry matter basis so you compare like with like as that is what you should be basing your feeding on actual nutrient intake not the same weight of two products for far apart moisture content wise.
 
spacefaer said:
Silage isn't fed to horses because of the risk of botulism

And if you read this article, you'd be wary of feeding haylage too!

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_botulism.htm
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There is actually a higher risk of botulism in haylage however it is incredibly rare . Cattle and sheep have exactly the same risk from botulism and in my many years farming on a large scale have never seen a case. I hgave been on large studs in germany where the horses are indeed fed silage from a mixer wagon
 
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popsdosh said:
Several misapprehensions in your argument silage does not contain alchohol the sugars convert to acids that preserve the grass.

Leaf is lost during haymaking as every time the crop is tedded there is leaf shatter that just falls to the ground never to be picked up again.

All feed analysis is on a dry matter basis so you compare like with like as that is what you should be basing your feeding on actual nutrient intake not the same weight of two products for far apart moisture content wise.
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Dohh! Of course the leaf falls on the grounds, sorry!

Popsdosh, can you please point me to where a proper analysis shows that a kilo of haylage out of the bale has a higher feed value than a kilo of hay made from the same grass out of the bale?.

Sorry to bang on about this, but I think it's crucial if people are judging what to feed.

Because people can't feed dry matter and they are being told 'haylage has more energy than hay' as a feed guide.

And if that is true, then given the relative water content of hay and haylage, the haylage would have to have fifty per cent more energy in it per kilo of dry matter, and I just can't see it.
 
I can only go by what I see in my own horses and that is that haylage contains more calories than hay .
My horses can hunt two days a week on a token hard feed and haylage add lib if I put them on hay within days I am having to up the hard food .
 
popsdosh said:
There is actually a higher risk of botulism in haylage however it is incredibly rare . Cattle and sheep have exactly the same risk from botulism and in my many years farming on a large scale have never seen a case. I hgave been on large studs in germany where the horses are indeed fed silage from a mixer wagon
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well, actually ruminants are far less sensitive to botulinum toxin than hindgut fermenters-from memory horses (and rabbits) need something like 1/1000 of the dose that would lead to symptoms in cattle-and that's not very much. I agree that its rare but there's a huge range of susceptibility between different species.
 
As a former farmer, at least for a few years, I would say that the main reason there is a difference in hay and in haylage is that during the making of hay, it is first cut and lies flat, the sun dries the top and the cut ends dry a bit, then the work begins: turning the rows till nearly dry, windrowing, then finally baling, even in the best conditions, sun, warm, dry and light breeze the stuff will be turned and fluffed up approx four times as it has to be as dry as possible, but during the turning there is leaf shatter, so some leaf is left on the field and the hay therefore becomes proportionally more stalky.
With modern equipment, the haylage is cut and baled as soon as it is reasonably dry, then wrapped in Polythene, where it cures in about a month. The process is shorter and less mechanical turning, less leaf loss. Of course the leaf is the most sugary [richer] part of the plant.
This is my thinking of the processes, I don't know if other farmers would agree.
 
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Goldenstar said:
I can only go by what I see in my own horses and that is that haylage contains more calories than hay .
My horses can hunt two days a week on a token hard feed and haylage add lib if I put them on hay within days I am having to up the hard food .
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This is how I go too. I feed ad lib. But if I feed ad lib hayledge, they bounce from the walls with pregnant bellies, if I feed ad lib hay I need to feed full hard feeds to get the work I want from them.... 20/30lb of hayledge per 24 hours plus ad lib hay does mine fine.
 
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