head bobbing and striking out, please help i'm out of ideas!

[merry mischief]

Jim my beloved rising 5 gypsy cob has always head bobbed a little, however recently this has become much worse to the point where he constantly throws his head up and down and throws in a front leg strike out and sometimes a bunny hop style rear

Back tack and teeth are all checked and rechecked, he does this ridden or lunged with or without saddle, however not when he is handled on the ground (is generally a little lamb on the ground) it is worse in trot than walk but not too bad in canter.
my oppinion is that some sort of pain must be causing this but vet, saddler, equine body worker and dentist have all given him a clean bill of health and others at my yard think it's just bad behaviour and that i should put a martingale on him.

does anyone else have any ideas?

edited to add that i've tried a nosenet and it made no difference what so ever.


mince pies in exchange for advice!

 

[be positive]

I would try a properly qualified physio or chiro, massage is all very well but not really getting to the root of any problems.


That done maybe get another rider to try him and see what they think, it could be a schooling issue.

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

Mine does exactly this when his saddle is pinching. He's v sensitive. So I'm out with the screwdriver and changing his gullet on his Wintec again .

 

[Elbie]

Does he do it just when riding or would he do it when schooling without tack on etc?

One possible reason may be your horse is a headshaker? I know you said you have tried a nose net but these are not a 100% 'cure' for head shaking. Perhaps mention to your vet?

 

[Janah]

My first thought was a headshaker and as Elbie said quite often not an easy fix.

Jane

 

[merry mischief]

I've just Read an article on Head shakers and got quite upset he had a severe injury to his leg at 3yo and now has a very severe reaction to pain of any type eg: vaccinations etc, sounds like this may fit with the diagnosis and the symptoms sound very similar :-(

 

[Ladybird]

Has your vet done a bute test?

 

[lara b]

I have had good results with the cashel riding mask for head shaking. Good luck for you both

 

[Elbie]

Try not to worry too much for now. Mention it to your vet and see if they can try some various treatments to help alleviate the problem

 

[AMH]

My immediate response would be headshaking.

I went to a lecture recently about headshakers by Derek Knottenbelt from Liverpool University, and the symptoms were exactly as you describe, both head bobbing and striking out, as well as rubbing the face on the ground or against the wall.

One thing he did suggest is that it seems to be a neurological pain problem in the animal's facial nerves, and they think it can be triggered by allergies but is not directly caused by allergies. They don't believe it's anything to do with backs or saddles - some horses do it even when not ridden. He doesn't believe it's a behaviour issue but feels it is a definite clinical problem. There's actually a H&H article on it:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/89386.html

It might be worth contacting him, or getting your vet to contact him, to discuss it.

 

[merry mischief]

Thankyou so much for this, there may be a ray of hope in that I tried a new bit today and he was loads better on the lunge so gonna monitor for a few days and see if it helps, fingers crossed as if not the future does not look good judging from the articles I've read :-( x

 

[Elbie]

My immediate response would be headshaking.

I went to a lecture recently about headshakers by Derek Knottenbelt from Liverpool University, and the symptoms were exactly as you describe, both head bobbing and striking out, as well as rubbing the face on the ground or against the wall.

One thing he did suggest is that it seems to be a neurological pain problem in the animal's facial nerves, and they think it can be triggered by allergies but is not directly caused by allergies. They don't believe it's anything to do with backs or saddles - some horses do it even when not ridden. He doesn't believe it's a behaviour issue but feels it is a definite clinical problem. There's actually a H&H article on it:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/89386.html

It might be worth contacting him, or getting your vet to contact him, to discuss it.

I had that lecture too!

 

[Wagtail]

Jim my beloved rising 5 gypsy cob has always head bobbed a little, however recently this has become much worse to the point where he constantly throws his head up and down and throws in a front leg strike out and sometimes a bunny hop style rear

Back tack and teeth are all checked and rechecked, he does this ridden or lunged with or without saddle, however not when he is handled on the ground (is generally a little lamb on the ground) it is worse in trot than walk but not too bad in canter.
my oppinion is that some sort of pain must be causing this but vet, saddler, equine body worker and dentist have all given him a clean bill of health and others at my yard think it's just bad behaviour and that i should put a martingale on him.

does anyone else have any ideas?
edited to add that i've tried a nosenet and it made no difference what so ever.


mince pies in exchange for advice!

I agree with your feelings regarding a pain issue. My horse head bobbed (along with other problems) chiro, physio and vet all said his back was fine but an xray (which I insisted on) showed kissing spine in ten places! Another horse at my yard head bobs even when turned out, and he has KS too. Often their backs are not at all sore with KS but instead they get shooting type pains caused by trapped nerves. My guess with your horse is that he has a pain issue in his back, neck or poll.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Has your vet done a bute test?

^^ This exactly. imo you need to do a pain trial. Stick him on bute for a few days and seeif there is a difference. Also you say 'teeth checked' - but a word of warning - my mare had had her teeth worked on twice in 10 months and she still clearly had an issue with her head and bitting so I got another dentist out and lo and behold he found a hook on the last bottom molar that cut her gum every time she even had her neck horizontal poor horse.

 

[Wagtail]

^^ This exactly. imo you need to do a pain trial. Stick him on bute for a few days and seeif there is a difference.

Whilst I agree that this works in many cases, it did not work with my horse, or with another on the yard. Both horses showed no difference with bute, but both horses were later found to be in a lot of pain. So yes, if it works and he improves then you know it is pain related, but if he is the same then it does not often mean that there is no pain issue, so be careful.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Whilst I agree that this works in many cases, it did not work with my horse, or with another on the yard. Both horses showed no difference with bute, but both horses were later found to be in a lot of pain. So yes, if it works and he improves then you know it is pain related, but if he is the same then it does not often mean that there is no pain issue, so be careful.

Yes agreed.

 

[DuckToller]

I have a connie x that does this - a friend's daughter took him to a new instructor for a lesson, and she thought his boot was irritating him, as he would stop dead, throw his left leg forward and throw his head down as if to rub the boot. Instructor took the boot off, but he still did it. He hardly does it in canter, but trot can be a nightmare.

We have had him for 4 years, and it is worse in certain conditions (dusk when midges about, high pollen days, all the usual head shaking conditions) but I have found two things help.

I bought him a slim contoured myler snaffle which he is better in, although he still does it, and then a friend's daughter tried him in a parelli head collar, and he is hugely better to the point where he hardly does it all. So I may well get him a soft hackamore to try, as not sure the parelli head collar would be acceptable out hunting!

Some people think this type of head shaking is caused by the trigeminal nerve in the face/jaw, and that would fit in with his improvement with a slimmer bit or no bit at all. Sorry if I have repeated stuff from other posts, not had time to read them all as dashing off to ride, but hope this helps.

 

[AMH]

Whilst I agree that this works in many cases, it did not work with my horse, or with another on the yard. Both horses showed no difference with bute, but both horses were later found to be in a lot of pain. So yes, if it works and he improves then you know it is pain related, but if he is the same then it does not often mean that there is no pain issue, so be careful.

This - if the pain is neurological in origin then bute won't have an effect. But could be a place to start...

 

[charlie76]

My horse started doing something very similar last weekend, I took him to the vets and they x rayed his head and scoped his ears and gutteral pouches and there was nothing.
They also washed out his ears with drops and *touchwood* this seems to have stopped it.

This is my post:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=502051

 

[merry mischief]

Charlie76 wow that sounds awful! Your poor ned! Glad he's feeling better thankfully jims not as bad as that.
I've got a different dentist coming and another back check, I've borrowed a selection of bits to try and if nothing changes I'll get the vet again for a bute test, He's eating and drinking etc normally, not doing it when turned out, as he has no symptoms except when ridden or lunged I'll try the obvious 1st, fingers crossed for it being a simple problem as poor Jim really deserves some good luck! X

 

[Bikerchickone]

I'd be tempted to go for a qualified equine osteopath myself. My normally calm and 100% safe horse bucked a rider off whilst out on loan, loaner called vet and physio out on my instructions because I know him well enough to know that's a cry for help, but their phsio and vet couldn't find anything wrong! I got my osteo in who found serious back and shoulder pain in seconds! Caused we think by badly fitted and incorrect shoes, which put pressure on his back from him standing awkwardly to alleviate the pain. It's taken months to bring him back and we're still not 100% but I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the osteo. Well worth the money.

Good luck with your boy.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Classic headshaking, sorry.