Head raising bit?

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EquiGirl1

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Can anyone recommend? I have heard cheltenham gag raises the head... but I've also heard it lowers it because of the poll pressure?

We are fine in a snaffle for dressage, and we are strong but head is up in sj but xc, hunting, gallops / open spaces our head is at best straight in front and the more excited we get, and the more tired we get, the stronger we get and the head gets lower and lower to the point where I am genuinely scared we will trip over and go flying, let alone see any jumps we might be approaching.
 
Hummm....tricky.

Cheltenham gags, used with two reins, are 'supposed' to raise the head by acting on the corners/lips of the mouth when rein pressure is applied. However, with very little actual research done that uses imagry of action and pressure, I personally feel that SOME horses do indeed, attempt to move away from the pole pressure and thus lower their heads. Out hunting, my old mare would put her head between her knees and go. A Cheltenham gag simply made it worse.

You have to try it to find out. What you have in the horses mouth is also important - snaffle, waterford, rubber? What about a Neue Schule one?

What about trying a loose ring waterford snaffle? Most horses love these and they give a surprising amount of control and are especially good for horses that lean.

What about the use of a martingale to try to lower the head? If she has a particularly high head carriage at the beginning, her neck muscles may get a bit tired so she tries to lower to counteract this. If you can restrict the amount she 'extends' these muscles at the begining, she may be less likely to run out of stream so quickly. If jumping, probably best to stick to a running one but you may have that already.

If she's putting her head down and leaning more when she's tired, could it actually be her fittness that is of issue here rather than a bitting issue? Is she actually fit enough for the job being asked of her? Or, perhaps her feeding needs tweaking. Just a thought.

Do you think a bit of schooling may be needed in order to get her to lean less and respond better to a lighter rein aid? again just a though?

Good luck and I'm interested to know what others suggest.
 
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Thanks for the reply. I have heard about the loose ring waterford, I might ask around to see if anyone has one I can borrow. She does lean against my hand but if I had no reins her head would still be in between her knees.

Her head is never up above where you would want it and what is normal so we have no need for a martingale and she is really quite fit, ridden 5 / 6 days a week. The only time she has really gotten tired was after a day out with the hunt, but I do think we might have snatchy head on the floor issues for sponsored rides and any other xc we do this summer.

Will keep you posted!
 
My mare is generally very high head. untill hunting xc etc. .
1st time hunting her I took her in NS universal her head was so low my hands we at the rein buckle. So I bought a waterford nelson gag. This helped no end she couldn't lean on me as easily and it brought her head much to her dissappointment. After eventing xc in a pelham last season and losing control I have put her in to her hunting but this season and *touch wood* we are having alot better smoother rounds
 
EquiGirl1 said:
Thanks for the reply. I have heard about the loose ring waterford, I might ask around to see if anyone has one I can borrow. She does lean against my hand but if I had no reins her head would still be in between her knees.

Her head is never up above where you would want it and what is normal so we have no need for a martingale and she is really quite fit, ridden 5 / 6 days a week. The only time she has really gotten tired was after a day out with the hunt, but I do think we might have snatchy head on the floor issues for sponsored rides and any other xc we do this summer.

Will keep you posted!
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I found a cheltenham gag encouraged my horse who was very much like this to put his head on the floor. I have found taking away any poll pressure is the best thing to improve "outline" and have found either a 3 ring gag with a curb strap, or a pelham the best thing to keep them from snatching, and keep them "up" and round a bit more. It is horses for courses though, and depends what they are most sensitive too!!
 
I should have added hunting and a xc schooling session were both done in a 3 ring french link gag on the second hole. Yes I felt like I had a little more in the breaks department but I think it made the head lowering issue worse. That said she goes really nicely in it for SJ.
 
I would look into a Waterford, I tried my tb hunting in a Pelham but using the curb pulled his head down and it was terrifying jumping like that! He used to hold the bit and run (but only when he felt like it!) sometimes soft as butter, funny pony :-)
 
I second a loose ring waterford - my young mare used to rush off when jumping but would tuck her head in and down. I tried this bit and it stopped her doing it and gave me much more control, but at the same time she really likes the bit and seems comfortable in it. We've now gone the other way and she is getting her head up too much!
 
The Universal bits are quite nice to lighten them in front and there you have the flexibility of different rings to use. My mare 'dives' to evade, she isn't heavy on the rein generally and is quite light in the contact so we don't need a stronger bit but will throw her head and neck out and down after a fence and in transitions to try and get away. I've found that riding a bit shoulder in helps as it keeps her more together and prevents that nasty long and flat feeling. Also during schooling to keep turning after fences so she lands and waits rather than charging off on landing. Also being really secure in your position and core. I have to be really disciplined with myself about asking her to come back with a weight and seat aid before going to my hand.
You could also try changing the nose band to something like a grackel or even a Kineton if she opens her mouth or locks or crosses her jaw as part of the evasion.
 
EquiGirl1 said:
I should have added hunting and a xc schooling session were both done in a 3 ring french link gag on the second hole. Yes I felt like I had a little more in the breaks department but I think it made the head lowering issue worse. That said she goes really nicely in it for SJ.
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Some horses lower their heads as a reaction to too much pressure. Do you think she may benefit from going back to basics as it were, in order to improve her 'stop' response from a light rein pressure.

My old mare sounded very similar and although changing bits did help somewhat, the real issue was that I wasn't releasing the rein pressure quick enough to provide the reward, so that over time, she begun to misunderstand what rein pressure meant. She would lean more and more and I would have to apply more and more pressure. I retrained myself to be correct and quick with the amount and release of pressure and she quickly followed suit.

I re-schooled on the flat with a cheeked snaffle to make my signals very clear and then used a simple loose ring waterford snaffle for SJ and XC, so that the pressure was isolated to the mouth (and not the poll or elsewhere) so that she could clearly understand what mouth/rein pressure meant.

Does you horse stick her tongue out anywhere, by any chance?

Just a thought.
 
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