Head shaking / allergy testing

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asbocob

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Hi all,
I’m at my wits end with my horse head shaking and was wondering if anyone had any experience or thoughts on it. Sorry this will be long but will try to keep it as short as possible.
He’s been doing it on and off for two years, at yard A he did it severely to the point where he was unrideable. We moved out of the area to yard B and he significantly improved. Due to a change of circumstances after a year we went back to yard A and the head shaking came back. Stamping, kicking and biting himself, twitching, head shaking, he has a runny nose and weepy eyes - the full lot, even chasing my other horse around the field to rub up him. He’s been to the vets (v close to yard B) where he was low grade head shaking but it’s intermittent so hard to catch. He went for a CT scan where a cyst on the jaw was found but they didn’t think that was the cause. Gabbapentin makes no real difference. Vets came out and saw him lunged; he couldn’t walk for head shaking, in trot it was violent every stride and in canter he was trying to hit his head off of the walls. Now they’ve nerve blocked his jaw where the cyst is, that was four days ago and he’s back to head shaking. Vets have said if this fails (looks like it has) then they’ll start PENs treatment.
They’ve said they think his environment is exacerbating the problem and I wholeheartedly agree. I believe an allergy is making it worse but vets aren’t keen to do allergy testing. Is this worth pushing for? Does it often work? It’s so awkward because some days he is absolutely fine, others he can be hard to handle. He’s currently on antihistamines and turned out with a fly mask. Rubbing his nose firmly seems to calm him down but I can’t do that all day. I feel so lost with it all and the insurance money has taken a big hit with no real outcome.
Sorry again that this is so long but didn’t want to drip feed. Thanks!
 
Same thing happens to my horse not as severe but only at one yard. Weird I’ve always assumed for mine it’s just excitement, but mine is no way near as bad. If you feel like you want to do allergy testing speak to the vet about it as that could be the cause of differences between yards .
 
Well, from what I loosely recall, head shaking can involve allergies, photosensitivity, and/or a nerve (that I cannot recall the name of). It's especially hard to deal with if severe and they nerve makes it tricky.

Most try to manage with a nose net and various supplements. I do think allergy testing is worth it and it certainly was for my (non head shaking) horse. I also think that if you know the specific allergy there are different treatments you can try. My vet talked about it briefly, maybe some sort of immunotherapy, but fortunately I didn't get that far into it as horse is managed fine for the time being.
 
Thanks for replies!
Vets aren’t keen to do allergy tests, they’re pushing for PENs where as I’d rather keep that as the very last option. The nerve block to the jaw hasn’t really done much in my opinion. Nose net didn’t help, especially when ridden. It’s like the end of his nose is being shocked which for me would suggest the TMJ nerve but then he has sore eyes, runny nose, twitching over the body etc which could suggest allergies - or an combo of both. We are surrounded by woodland and streams so maybe a sensitivity to something environmental is making the TMJ issues worse? He’s having a sports massage tomorrow so will be interested to see if his poll is sore as he’s always struggled with holding tension there. It’s all so confusing for me.
 
Does he only do it when ridden or gets worse?

If so I would check his bridle it could be putting pressure on the nerve, cheek piece buckles must be eye level, the head piece and brow band could be pinching as well.

One of my horses is a mild head shaker and is worse when something is put on his head like fly mask, bridle, head collar I have found certain fly masks are better than others so it can be a bit of trial and error, they think he has some nerve damage it can be caused by anything basically that happens to the head and face, it could still be the cyst I am surprised they think it's not.
 
Pinkvboots said:
Does he only do it when ridden or gets worse?

If so I would check his bridle it could be putting pressure on the nerve, cheek piece buckles must be eye level, the head piece and brow band could be pinching as well.

One of my horses is a mild head shaker and is worse when something is put on his head like fly mask, bridle, head collar I have found certain fly masks are better than others so it can be a bit of trial and error, they think he has some nerve damage it can be caused by anything basically that happens to the head and face, it could still be the cyst I am surprised they think it's not.
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Thanks for your reply, he’s does it under saddle, lunged, in the field and stable. He’s currently unsafe to ride but definitely worse with the bridle on, I took the noseband off which helped but definitely still head shaking and rubbing his nose. I wouldn’t be shocked if mine has nerve damage now anyway from hitting his head off of the stable bars when he’s really shaky. Initially they didn’t think the cyst was of any significance but when they had him back to the vets they said his head shaking there was too low grade to block the TMJ so they gave a steroid injection to the jaw instead.
 
My horse doesn't head shake he rubs his nose on his leg or whatever he can find but is definitely worse with a bridle on.

My vet told me that it could be nerve damage because he has had 2 quite bad infections in his guttural pouch, he said the head and face is really sensitive so anything that happens on the head can lead to nerve damage later on, that's why I thought them saying the cyst has no effect was strange I would possibly get a second opinion, there is a vet in the USA that specialises in this kind but I can't remember there name I will try and find it, I found it by chance on Google ages ago.
 
Pinkvboots said:
My horse doesn't head shake he rubs his nose on his leg or whatever he can find but is definitely worse with a bridle on.

My vet told me that it could be nerve damage because he has had 2 quite bad infections in his guttural pouch, he said the head and face is really sensitive so anything that happens on the head can lead to nerve damage later on, that's why I thought them saying the cyst has no effect was strange I would possibly get a second opinion, there is a vet in the USA that specialises in this kind but I can't remember there name I will try and find it, I found it by chance on Google ages ago.
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Ah I never thought of it like that re the cyst. They sent me a copy of the CT scan and report, they had it noted but nothing of significance and now they’ve injected it. They said it could have just been the way he was born though? If you could find their name that would be brilliant, thanks. Sadly the insurance money has taken a real hit at this point though which is why I’m pushing for allergy testing before PENs. At least if it’s an allergy we could move yards to somewhere without those triggers hopefully.
 
There is some interesting stuff on the net about tooth roots having an effect on the trigemenal nerve have a Google because if a cyst is anywhere near teeth roots it could put pressure on the nerves there that's my theory anyway.

Could you maybe find some grazing elsewhere for a while and see if it improves? That way at least it kind of leans toward an allergy.
 
Pinkvboots said:
There is some interesting stuff on the net about tooth roots having an effect on the trigemenal nerve have a Google because if a cyst is anywhere near teeth roots it could put pressure on the nerves there that's my theory anyway.

Could you maybe find some grazing elsewhere for a while and see if it improves? That way at least it kind of leans toward an allergy.
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There’s something about his teeth on the CT report too but again, they said it’s of no significance and the vet who did this report is also a dentist so would assume he’d have picked up on it. It’s definitely worth looking into though, will query it.
I do have somewhere I may be able to move him to for a few weeks but I’d have to take my other horse too as a companion. Going to lunge him over the next few days to see if the nerve block to the cyst on the jaw has improved - it certainly hasn’t improved the shaking and rubbing in the field and stable though.
 
From a biochemical point of view, have you tried giving magnesium citrate and/or B12? I'd also check the potassium levels in soil where you are and between yards A and B if there was a difference in headshaking.

(not a biochemist, just really interested in neural pathways and headshaking as my lad is sensitive to light)
 
RachaelJC said:
From a biochemical point of view, have you tried giving magnesium citrate and/or B12? I'd also check the potassium levels in soil where you are and between yards A and B if there was a difference in headshaking.

(not a biochemist, just really interested in neural pathways and headshaking as my lad is sensitive to light)
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No I haven’t, that’s interesting though. What would the feeding rates be? He’s suddenly become obsessed with his salt lick despite getting salt in his feeds and is drinking a lot more. Sadly can’t test the soil from yard A but could with B, where could I get this done?
Sports massage today was really interesting, I’m definitely going to push for allergy testing.
 
If start with having a look online then if there is a difference you can get some soil tested. It isn't exact onlime, but would give you a broad idea of any differences between yards:
http://mapapps2.bgs.ac.uk/ukso/home.html

Put postcode in and choose soil chemistry, then pick. I'd check magnesium, potassium, and sodium. Unfortunately it's a separate search for each, so a little long winded.

Nerves are 'voltage gated' so impulses move across nerves when there is a change in +ve/-ve 'charge' across the synapse. These chemicals are involved with that. It's interesting that you've noticed salt lick obsession recently.

Definitely get allergy tested. It's such a shame that there isn't a definitive medication or therapy for headshaking as it's horrible for horses and owners alike.
 
RachaelJC said:
It may also be worth getting a blood sample checked for minerals to see if his levels are within range.
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He’s had his bloods done before, absolutely fine. There’s no massive difference using that map. Could I still supplement with magnesium citrate and/or B12?
 
asbocob said:
He’s had his bloods done before, absolutely fine. There’s no massive difference using that map. Could I still supplement with magnesium citrate and/or B12?
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I don't see why not. The study I've read has been linked on various websites and was a dosage of 24mg per kg of bodyweight. I'd ask your vet for their opinion on the study too and if it's worth trying.
 
RachaelJC said:
I don't see why not. The study I've read has been linked on various websites and was a dosage of 24mg per kg of bodyweight. I'd ask your vet for their opinion on the study too and if it's worth trying.
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I’ll try to find the study, thank you. Have sent an email this morning asking for allergy testing so will see what their response is. Thanks!
 
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