Head tossing and evasion

[Olivia od]

Hi All, my first time posting, I have just bought a new horse 2 weeks, showjumper 6 year old mare. I am having major problems with her head tossing and evasion, she is great in walk but as soon as I love to trot her head throws up in the air and tossing and shaking, even on loose rein she doesn't want to move forward in trot keeps trying to canter, then when we canter it's the same. I have had her teeth checked and back x-rayed. I seen from videos she did this with her previous owner too. No matter how I ride loose rein, contact, she is the same. My RI said she is stressing but doesn't know why

I changed her bit as I feel it could be that, she was much better for 2 days then started again and is even worse now. Can anyone suggest ideas to help, I feel I'm at a loose end?

Thanks

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Assuming she's in no pain.

My horse was the same. What noseband are you using? She is still young so has possibly missed out on a chunck of training. I would get her established in walk. Lots of flexing etc. When trotting don't rush her out of balance , lots of transitions using your seat rather than hands and build on it slowly. Are your hands steady?

 

[Olivia od]

Assuming she's in no pain.

My horse was the same. What noseband are you using? She is still young so has possibly missed out on a chunck of training. I would get her established in walk. Lots of flexing etc. When trotting don't rush her out of balance , lots of transitions using your seat rather than hands and build on it slowly. Are your hands steady?

Thanks for your reply, she's just in a Cavesson noseband. I do feel like she's very untrained in flat and was just jumped, just finding it extremely difficult to get her to even go into a forward trot with head tossing and trying to canter. I would say I have light steady hands but always room to improve? thanks for your advice I will definitely give it a try ?

 

[Rowreach]

Cut as much sugar out of her diet as possible. Feed her only hay for a bit and see if she improves. You'll know in a few days if it's a food intolerance.

 

[Olivia od]

Cut as much sugar out of her diet as possible. Feed her only hay for a bit and see if she improves. You'll know in a few days if it's a food intolerance.

Thanks for your reply, she's only on a quarter scoup of pony nuts and hay but worth checking ingredients in the pony nuts, thanks ?

 

[dixie]

What bits have you tried?

 

[Pinkvboots]

I bought a mare years ago that intended to breed with but circumstances changed so I thought I would start riding her, she was a horses that had jumped a lot before I had her and she was quite similar only liked walking or cantering and it you tried to trot it was awful she would fling her head around and bunny hop.

I think it was because previously she was only ever asked to walk or canter when jumped, she was a very hot horse anyway and trot just wound her up, I taught her to lunge from voice aids then used the same concept on board and if she cantered instead of trotting we went back to walk, it took me months to get a decent amount of trot without her wanting to canter, but it did get better and I did manage a few dressage tests without the outbreaks, she turned out to be a really great horse to ride and was brilliant to hack.

 

[Olivia od]

What bits have you tried?

Thanks for replying. I have tried standard snaffle, iron French link snaffle with copper lozenge, rubber mullen loose ring, and copper Wilkie. She liked seemed best on the mullen but then got way to strong and again started the same stuff after 2 days, my RI suggested trying something bwith poll pressure?

 

[Olivia od]

I bought a mare years ago that intended to breed with but circumstances changed so I thought I would start riding her, she was a horses that had jumped a lot before I had her and she was quite similar only liked walking or cantering and it you tried to trot it was awful she would fling her head around and bunny hop.

I think it was because previously she was only ever asked to walk or canter when jumped, she was a very hot horse anyway and trot just wound her up, I taught her to lunge from voice aids then used the same concept on board and if she cantered instead of trotting we went back to walk, it took me months to get a decent amount of trot without her wanting to canter, but it did get better and I did manage a few dressage tests without the outbreaks, she turned out to be a really great horse to ride and was brilliant to hack.

Ye that's kinda of what she's like she doesn't understand trot at all but is still bad with head in canter too, not sure if head tossing is evading aids or bit, hopefully in time like you I will figure it out, th aks for you help ?

 

[Rowreach]

Thanks for your reply, she's only on a quarter scoup of pony nuts and hay but worth checking ingredients in the pony nuts, thanks ?

Any supplements or balancers are also worth checking.

 

[dixie]

It might be the tongue pressure in the bits she doesn’t like. My horse tosses his head and he hates bits that lie on his tongue. After experimenting he goes best in the Bomber ported barrel. He still does it when tired or anxious but I can now school him without too many issues.
it’s definitely worth exploring especially as she seemed to initially prefer the straight bar.
you can hire the bits very reasonably from the bit bank.

 

[stangs]

Have you tried her bitless (you can use a headcollar) or without a noseband? Even if her bit/bridle isn't causing her discomfort, she may be expecting it and thus stressing.

A horse I used to know did the same thing as your girl, and was said to have headaches. She never got an official diagnosis/treatment, but she would settle a little with poll massages. Might be worth getting a physio, or even chiro, out for that.

 

[Red-1]

Has she been taught to accept the contact and yield to the bit?

Good first diagnosis is to stand at her head and use the rein contact from the floor. Does she accept the contact, relax the jaw and calmly step back when pressure is applied?

Or harden to the contact, as she doesn't understand what to do? They should back up thoughtfully, to a light touch, if they have been taught to accept and yield to the contact.

Many horses are ridden away and jumped without knowing how to respond to the bit as a signal. Instead, they are used to backing off from the bit through being uncomfortable. This leads to tension.

 

[Kaylum]

Take off the noseband and check how tight the browband is. See which groove the bit is sitting in. Your instructor should be able to help you with this. Drop it down of up and see if that helps.

 

[Pinkvboots]

How is the saddle fit?

 

[OlderNotWiser]

Supposedly basic livery nuts sent my new boy over the top. Different horses react to different ingredients, definitely something to rule out. Good luck getting to the bottom of it.

 

[Olivia od]

Thanks everyone for all your very helpful advice, I will try everything and hopefully something will work ?

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Hate to sow a note of gloom but I'd be inclined to get your vet to have a look at this, presuming you've checked back, saddle, teeth & physio.

Sadly my mare developed trigeminal nerve headshaking.

Sorry if frightening you but I think you need to rule this out.

 

[Rowreach]

Thanks everyone for all your very helpful advice, I will try everything and hopefully something will work ?

It's usually the only way forward, to rule out all the little things until you find something that works, or go down the road of a full work up. Good luck, hopefully it will be something straightforward. Most headshaking is not trigeminal neuralgia.

Just to add, some respond well to magnesium/BVits (so most "calmers"), although some get worse, and some respond to VitE/Selenium. Just adding a hefty dose of salt into the diet has made a huge difference to many.

Try feeding 10g of table salt per 100kg of bodyweight. Mine went from unrideable due to headshaking to absolutely perfect, just by cutting out all processed feed and haylage and adding salt to a small amount of straight feed. The difference was noticeable within a few days.

 

[Olivia od]

It's usually the only way forward, to rule out all the little things until you find something that works, or go down the road of a full work up. Good luck, hopefully it will be something straightforward. Most headshaking is not trigeminal neuralgia.

Just to add, some respond well to magnesium/BVits (so most "calmers"), although some get worse, and some respond to VitE/Selenium. Just adding a hefty dose of salt into the diet has made a huge difference to many.

Try feeding 10g of table salt per 100kg of bodyweight. Mine went from unrideable due to headshaking to absolutely perfect, just by cutting out all processed feed and haylage and adding salt to a small amount of straight feed. The difference was noticeable within a few days.

Oh wow, I will definitely give that a try, that's something I would never have thought, thank you! ?

 

[Olivia od]

Hate to sow a note of gloom but I'd be inclined to get your vet to have a look at this, presuming you've checked back, saddle, teeth & physio.

Sadly my mare developed trigeminal nerve headshaking.

Sorry if frightening you but I think you need to rule this out.

Thanks, yes if all else fails I will give get the vet checked

 

[Annagain]

Others have given you great suggestions. I'd also look at getting a bridle and bit fitter come out to you. My boy would toss his head from time to time and I wasted a lot of time and money on trying different bits. One session with a bit and bridle fitter, and it's fixed. The bridle made more of a difference than the bit. He's got a head piece that's really cut back away from his ears and a HUGE browband that basically doesn't touch his head at all. He's so much happier. It hasn't stopped completely yet but it was 80% better straight away and now, two months on, is 95% better.

 

[Olivia od]

Others have given you great suggestions. I'd also look at getting a bridle and bit fitter come out to you. My boy would toss his head from time to time and I wasted a lot of time and money on trying different bits. One session with a bit and bridle fitter, and it's fixed. The bridle made more of a difference than the bit. He's got a head piece that's really cut back away from his ears and a HUGE browband that basically doesn't touch his head at all. He's so much happier. It hasn't stopped completely yet but it was 80% better straight away and now, two months on, is 95% better.

Great thanks for the advice

 

[splashgirl45]

if she was the same with previous owner , did you question it at the time? did she do it when you tried her and was she vetted before you bought her? it may be a case of going right back to the basics, keep her in walk , do lots of changes of rein, walk her over poles on the ground and dont go into trot until you are happy in walk..make a decision on a bit and keep to it to give her a chance to get used to it. chopping and changing wont help

 

[Olivia od]

if she was the same with previous owner , did you question it at the time? did she do it when you tried her and was she vetted before you bought her? it may be a case of going right back to the basics, keep her in walk , do lots of changes of rein, walk her over poles on the ground and dont go into trot until you are happy in walk..make a decision on a bit and keep to it to give her a chance to get used to it. chopping and changing wont help

Yes I had her fully vetted and x-rayed. She did do it when I was riding but we were jumping a course and just thought she just got excited when she jumped, same with video of previous rider was jumping, as I know a lot of show jumpers can toss. It was only when I took home and tired flat work it became very apparent. Yes going to stick now with same bit, thanks for reply ?

 

[Winters100]

How was she when you tried her on the flat? I am assuming that you did not go straight into jumping? Is she significantly different to the horse you tried? And other than a change in location and rider are there any other big changes (bridle, bit, food, turnout regime)? Hopefully if she was ok when you tried her you might be able to find a relatively simple solution