Head tossing

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Rosie12

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Hi, I hope someone out there has a similar horse to mine and can help.
My mare is 15 .1 hh Trake x TB. She just mostly resists going in any form of outline when doing flatwork by throwing her head vertical... stamps her feet.. it becomes quite threatening at times when she lifts both front feet .. the head tossing is so extreme that I am basically wearing her forelock as a moustache..! (she is equally un co -operative in dressage tests)
She does not do this XC or SJ (except in warm up if we need to divert .. as one does for other competitors.. ) To give a clearer picture of her personality she puts her ears back if someone passes 'too close' ... for her .. too close may be meters away!...
She has had saddles checked , teeth checked ... you know the drill :-).. and its not just when she is in season.. .
Also I have to add... I went to a bitting clinic ... she settled really well to the new bit at the clinic... I thought is was the answer .. I bought it... but NO.. Soo I have also tried bitless.. just the really mild Micklam bridle chin fitting... she was fabulous SJ ... but when back at home ... bitless ... she still throws her head vertical..in my human mind I think she just does it because flatwork doesnt interest her... I dont know if thats how horses think???
... so how can I make it interesting for her...
Does anyone else have this experience and has resolved it?
I do have regular coaching sessions with well respected instructors.
Thanks for reading and mega thanks if you can help :-)
 
I'm not sure we've had quite the same - but have had horses who resisted the contact. She could be a genuine head shaker - with tri meningeal nerve pain. Although they normally jerk downward rather than up I have known them with an upward carriage.

She could lack topline so carrying her head lower for any length of time is painful. She could have emergent kissing spines - you don't give an age.

I know you have had saddles checked - but tack pain could be a reason. Especially if she lacks the deep muscle development of a real top line. Or if there is a real head nerve pain issue.

Have you had a good EDT? A nerve root abscess can cause this type of reaction and can be really hard to see in the early stages.

I know you have respected instructors - but in the list of reasons is possibly someone with too hard hands for her. Not a bad rider - but too much for her. I have an ISH who is so desperately sensitive he'll do this if the hands are even a fraction off. He's not in pain now - but he remembers it. Your comment about doing this if you need to move around another competitor is especially reminiscent of him in his early years.

Which brings me to the next possibility - remembered pain. Not what you are doing - but remembering what someone else has done to her.

Or - as you have said - a learned evasion. She's learned it is easier to go this way than properly. It can take years to re build the correct musculature if they have been allowed to use an inverted carriage for sometime.

How to deal with it?

If she were mine - turn away for a couple of months. Possibly longer. Depends on how long she has been doing it. Then bring back in really slowly. Re-start from the basics teaching her to carry herself correctly. Longline. Lots of long / low work. Help her to build the correct musculature and engage her brain in a positive way. Lots of variation and interest. Be gentle. Help her to learn she gets on better in correct carriage and correct behavior than not. To be honest a good 18 - 24 months work at least. It takes twice a long to undo a fault in training than it does to establish it.

But if she is really suffering nerve pain in the face that won't help her. If she can't bear the pressure of a bridle then you are going to have to think of other options - I'm sorry. If she can't be ridden safely it may be time to think the unthinkable.
 
How are you asking for the contact? With your hands? Or with seat and legs? Try dropping the contact and beginning to ride her up towards your hands. As a poster above said, it will take many months of consistent, progressive work to develop the correct musculature for her to have a true top line.
 
whats she like on the lines with side reins, etc? if she's better it could be a good way to build up the muscle so she finds it easier. My mare also does the whole if you come within 5 metres of me you will be punished thing lol and she hated flatwork and used to just rear/spook/bronc around to avoid work and once she had settled she would then condense her neck up enormously and not take any contact. the thing that has helped her no end is just avoiding doing it in the school. when out hacking i ask for outlines up hills and basic leg yielding/stretching etc and she is much happier to cooperate. now when i do go in the school i keep it short and sweet and she has never felt better!
 
Working into a contact on the flat is very different to a contact when jumping.

I would start by checking her teeth all over again by an EDT, and following that get a physio to check her poll and TMJ area to make sure there is no pain.

How is she if you get off her and lunge her in side reins or a pessoa?
 
No horse reacts that badly because they are not interested in flatwork however boring it may seem to be, they do not think that way, this is not simply avoiding working but a response to pain or discomfort, often they can forget when jumping as the adrenaline carries them through, it may be something minor but until you find the problem this will continue.

I would get a vet out to give a full check over, if you haven't already and also try taking her diet back to the very basics, hay and grass as it can sometimes be sensitivity to feed that causes discomfort, there are so many things that need looking into you need to try to eliminate one thing at a time until you find the trigger if the vet finds nothing.
 
Hi. Thank you all so much for taking the time to give me your suggestions, Ponies4ever, your experience sounds so similar. . Vet was coming out today anyway for vaccinations so will ask about any pain as well. Thanks again.
 
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