Heart bars for palmar foot pain - good or bad?

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xStephx

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Hi all,

I'm sure this has been done to death already and i'm probably going to bring up a controversial subject but here goes. My boy went to vets on Friday for intermittent lameness, diagnosis is palmar foot pain, no real specific cause, and also bilateral. There are tiny changes to the outside edge of the navicular bone but not what you would see in navicular disease. All other joints i.e. coffin joint look fine and no improvement on coffin joint block. He has typical flat, thin thoroughbred feet.

I have been recommended heart bars by vet, my dilemma is heart bars or barefoot. I have heard good and bad about heart bars, I want what is best for my horse and I have no idea what that is. I don't want to damage his feet by putting him in heart bars but equally I don't want to go barefoot if I can't manage this correctly. He currently has no shoes on as they were taken off for x rays. He has boots on but by yesterday was crippled even with these on. I have had to give him bute as I couldn't stand to watch him in so much pain.

I spoke with a barefoot trimmer who was trimming another horse on our yard who told me that if I put heart bars on I would be shooting my horse in year but he couldn't help me because my horse won't box during the summer. He will only settle in the stable if ALL horses are in, if they aren't he weaves manically and double barrels kicking the walls. Even my other horse is not enough company for him and he loves my other horse. The trimmer couldn't understand when he looked at him why he was in so much pain even with boots on.

I am going to speak to my farrier at lunch as he is due tomorrow to shoe him anyway and get his take on it. But I just wanted other peoples opinions / experiences. I really am torn as I want to try barefoot but just don't know if I can manage it correctly and if he will cope but at the same time half of me says he's had his shoes off a couple of days keep going. Although giving him bute right now to keep him comfy doesn't make me feel good either.

Thanks :)
 
Long term to see real improvements taking shoes off would be best, shorter time he might be more comfortable in shoes.

Among this you still have options. Why is he not boxing in summer an issue?

My ponderings are you can keep shoes off now, boot (there are a range of more cushioning therapy type boots available) and bute to keep him comfortable. - how long since last trim is he?

Alternatively you could wait until we are going into winter and the ground softens up, having barefoot as your long term goal and your farrier shoeing with this in mind while you optimise feeding etc.

Another thought would be putting him in the easycare hearbar shoes or imprints as a bit of a halfway house for now.
 
Thanks for the quick reply. He is currently in cavallos. I haven't got any pads though which I know would help a bit. I think basically the trimmer would want him off the grass because of sugar and because I couldn't do that he couldn't help me. I know diet plays a big role in barefoot but he needs grass for weight. He doesn't keep it in winter and grass is the only real thing that puts it on him. I have tried high oil and fibre diets and low starch to no avail which I know is what is needed for barefoot. He is on top spec super conditioning flakes and hifi right now and I'm about to get a balancer for him. He is shod every six weeks and is due tomorrow which is why I really need to make a decision on what to do.
 
Shoes off and most DEFINITELY pads. I put my boy in the 12mm easycare soft ones and the difference was insane, he went from crippled to galloping around. My story didn't end well but I believe he had the best chance possible by going barefoot. Oh and I had him in oversized old Mac g2s. If your horses heels are collapsed the cavallo may need to be a bit bigger so they don't rub. Good luck- there are tons of people on here who have so much know ledge. Mine is only from my one experience
 
Oh yes as ester said look at easycare shoes. I used these as well and thought they were fab. Very expensive though- unless you haven't saint of a farrier like mine who did it at cost price because he had never used them before.
 
xStephx said:
He has typical flat, thin thoroughbred feet.
Click to expand...

I would say that this is your fundamental issue. Sadly people still look at TB's and believe that they are condemned genetically to having badly balanced hooves with thin soles and poor horn quality and that improvements are therefore impossible. So many TB's could have much better hooves than they do.

Have you started your horse on the so called 'barefoot diet'? It really is just a sensible diet for all horses regardless of breed or whether they are shod or not.

I agree with Ester that him not being stabled shouldn't be a 'game over' issue. All of mine live out including the one that had a BF rehab and went from almost PTS to full recovery. I do restrict grazing with electric fencing though. I would say that that particular trimmer isn't the right one for you. I actually use a farrier but he is pro barefoot and is very interested in all aspects of hoofcare.

Do you have pads in the boots? The first thing is to get him comfortable and if that means glue on shoes, or even back to metal shoes for a short while, then I would do that. I would aim to have him BF rather than in bar shoes if he was mine (bar shoes can contract the heels terribly) but you might need to get the diet right first, investigate pads for the boots or wait for softer ground.
 
If you do decide to shoe (and if you can somehow cover the cost!) take a look at the imprint sports shoes. They are essentially a glue on composite heart bar shoe designed for working horses, but the heart bar aspect is flexible (unlike metal shoes) to help allow the foot to function a little more naturally
 
It sounds as though the previous shoeing has allowed him to have poor feet, so heartbars will relieve the situation for a while but will not solve the problem long term, which is borne out by many on here.
I would alter the diet: he needs hi fibre, no cereals wheatfeed etc, no molasses, minerals, and some salt. There should be a compromise between stabling and not stabling, even if you have to change yards. Is the grass he is on long and lush, can he be penned out with his mates but still allow you to control his forage intake.
Read Michen's experience, she tried lots of things and none of them were easy, there was not a happy outcome, but she did everything she could for Torres.
 
Not all horses are super grass sensitive- and if there are plenty of other mitigating factors I think it is unfair to suggest that is the case for yours, even the good doers with flat feet and I think that was rather dismissive of the trimmer!

Mine were previously on a track round the edge of 3 acres just set up with elec tape 24/7. Now he is out muzzled as the former isn't as easily practical in current yard.

Feed wise for yours, barefooters, for no obvious reason don't seem to get on with top spec!

Basis of barefoot diets tend to be around grass chop/sugar beet/oats (thunderbrook for some)/coolstance copra (good for weight)/micronised linseed- can be fed in quite high amounts if weight gain required. Essentially there are high calorie barefoot friendly options you can feed.

Balancer wise you need one with low/no iron to start. Such as forageplus, pro earth on ebay, equimins advanced complete, equivita.

OP whereabouts are you, I do think those that might prove a bit tricky at the very least you need suitable support as much as the horse and we might be able to suggest some people who won't be as dismissive as the trimmer you have met!

I think essentially he will be better for time out of shoes eventually, but something else might be a better option for him right now.


Michen did my feetfirst book end up with you? I can't remember!
 
ester said:
Not all horses are super grass sensitive- and if there are plenty of other mitigating factors I think it is unfair to suggest that is the case for yours, even the good doers with flat feet and I think that was rather dismissive of the trimmer!

Mine were previously on a track round the edge of 3 acres just set up with elec tape 24/7. Now he is out muzzled as the former isn't as easily practical in current yard.

Feed wise for yours, barefooters, for no obvious reason don't seem to get on with top spec!

Basis of barefoot diets tend to be around grass chop/sugar beet/oats (thunderbrook for some)/coolstance copra (good for weight)/micronised linseed- can be fed in quite high amounts if weight gain required. Essentially there are high calorie barefoot friendly options you can feed.

Balancer wise you need one with low/no iron to start. Such as forageplus, pro earth on ebay, equimins advanced complete, equivita.

OP whereabouts are you, I do think those that might prove a bit tricky at the very least you need suitable support as much as the horse and we might be able to suggest some people who won't be as dismissive as the trimmer you have met!

I think essentially he will be better for time out of shoes eventually, but something else might be a better option for him right now.


Michen did my feetfirst book end up with you? I can't remember!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the support. Have just spoken with my farrier who did agree heart bars would only be a short term option. But also not a candidate for barefoot because of his flat feet and something to do with his toes. I did say but won't he just be lame again if he comes right in heart bars when they are taken off. He explained that by using them short term it should alleviate pressure which might be causing the lameness and give it time to heal. He suggested it might be the hard ground but this has been intermittent since winter which I told him so it definitely was not the ground. What has sparked it this time is hill work in the fields.

I think my only option right now is try the heart bars short term if that fails or if he comes right and goes lame in normal shoes I will take them off by which time it would be autumn meaning the ground would be softer so transitioning wouldn't be so hard.

In the meantime I will get his diet as best I can. The super conditioning flakes are basically naked oats with soy beans though not many. Mainly naked oats. He is already on linseed and has two mugs a day. Someone told me feeding more was pointless if not putting weight on at that amount? I was thinking of using equine answers balancer but not sure how this stacks up for barefoot horses?

I am in North Leicestershire on the border with south nottingham.
 
ester said:
Not all horses are super grass sensitive- and if there are plenty of other mitigating factors I think it is unfair to suggest that is the case for yours, even the good doers with flat feet and I think that was rather dismissive of the trimmer!

Mine were previously on a track round the edge of 3 acres just set up with elec tape 24/7. Now he is out muzzled as the former isn't as easily practical in current yard.

Feed wise for yours, barefooters, for no obvious reason don't seem to get on with top spec!

Basis of barefoot diets tend to be around grass chop/sugar beet/oats (thunderbrook for some)/coolstance copra (good for weight)/micronised linseed- can be fed in quite high amounts if weight gain required. Essentially there are high calorie barefoot friendly options you can feed.

Balancer wise you need one with low/no iron to start. Such as forageplus, pro earth on ebay, equimins advanced complete, equivita.

OP whereabouts are you, I do think those that might prove a bit tricky at the very least you need suitable support as much as the horse and we might be able to suggest some people who won't be as dismissive as the trimmer you have met!

I think essentially he will be better for time out of shoes eventually, but something else might be a better option for him right now.


Michen did my feetfirst book end up with you? I can't remember!
Click to expand...

Yes it did and if OP would like it I would be more than happy to send it on :D It might as well be renamed the HHO textbook!
 
xStephx said:
Thanks for the support. Have just spoken with my farrier who did agree heart bars would only be a short term option. But also not a candidate for barefoot because of his flat feet and something to do with his toes. I did say but won't he just be lame again if he comes right in heart bars when they are taken off. He explained that by using them short term it should alleviate pressure which might be causing the lameness and give it time to heal. He suggested it might be the hard ground but this has been intermittent since winter which I told him so it definitely was not the ground. What has sparked it this time is hill work in the fields.

I think my only option right now is try the heart bars short term if that fails or if he comes right and goes lame in normal shoes I will take them off by which time it would be autumn meaning the ground would be softer so transitioning wouldn't be so hard.

In the meantime I will get his diet as best I can. The super conditioning flakes are basically naked oats with soy beans though not many. Mainly naked oats. He is already on linseed and has two mugs a day. Someone told me feeding more was pointless if not putting weight on at that amount? I was thinking of using equine answers balancer but not sure how this stacks up for barefoot horses?

I am in North Leicestershire on the border with south nottingham.
Click to expand...


Op... Ask your farrier WHY he has flat feet and WHY his toes are long (probably what your farrier said). The best candidates for barefoot are those with the worst feet, as they need to be out of shoes the most.

I know it's incredibly hard going against what farrier and possibly vet says but if you want to sort of those feet and not just manage them-he needs to go barefoot. Chat to Andalucian, she is an EP on here and a wealth of knowledge.
 
I am sceptical about why he isn't a candidate for barefoot, having one with flat feet myself ;). Usually the things that people think make the non candidates are the very reason they would be the ones that would benefit most from their shoes coming off and being allowed to do some of the self-healing they seem to be quite good at.

Feel free to add some pics for the geeks to nosey at OP. I think putting heartbars on will patch him up for the meantime but that you are unlikely to achieve the sort of changes you probably need long term- we got my lads feet looking much better in bar shoes but they weren't functionally any sounder.

Personally, if he is particularly sore and I wasn't feeling terribly brave I would use imprints or similar for the next couple of months and then take shoes off as the ground softens.

If you do want a copy of feet first, do say as Michen can put mine in the post to you ;).
 
OP in your shoes (excuse the pun), I would be shoeing for now. It's a really bad time of year to be trying to transition a crippled horse to barefoot - if the horse were mine it would be in heart bars for now (pref glue on), close attention to diet and with a plan to maybe try unshod through the winter.
 
I would, if you can, take him off the conditioning flakes, and switch to micronised linseed or copra. Soy is pro-inflammatory, and it could be something insignificant like that which is causing the issues to come to a head.

Good luck :)
 
Ok I've only read post 1 at time of typing this so shoot me if I repeat what others have already said...


If your horse is insured or if you have a modest amount set aside for trying to bring him right then it may be worth speaking to Nic Barker at Rockley farm (http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/) about barefoot rehabilitation. A lot of the horses sent there have palmar foot pain of one description or another (a lot of them have also been written off by vets or farriers) and so aren't 100% comfortable out of shoes to begin with. The setup there includes an extensive track system with conformable surfaces to keep them as comfortable as possible.

My own horse who was sent there was so crippled when he had his shoes removed for an MRI that I had to boxrest him until I could get a farrier out. When i finally decided that barefoot seemed to offer the best prognosis I knew I couldn't handle the initial transition myself and wanted to give us the very best chance of success. For quite a long time after the shoes came off his soles would flex with a decent press from your thumb. Now just over 1 year down the line from having his shoes removed for good we've been belting around the fields and trotting on the roads today (little git even likes to make attempts to persuade me to allow canter on the roads) and we were popping little jumps yesterday (although the pony was convinced they were actually HUGE and needed jumping as such).

My horse can also be stressy when stabled on his own. He managed ok the tail end of the summer he came back from Rockley but this Spring made it very clear he wasn't happy with that option anymore. The solution was putting him in a paddock that had been trashed over winter during the day with haylage and muzzling when he goes on the grass at night. Perhaps taping off a small area for yours and discouraging the grass from growing there (covering the area with haylage seems very effective as I have accidently discovered via my messy pony!) could be an alternative to stabling?

Diet is also a very big part of taking them barefoot with high fibre, low sugar being best and a mineral balancer being beneficial.

As for heartbars my personal opinion is that the eventual damage they may cause outweighs short term benefits but that is only my opinion.
 
Can you get some pictures of his feet now before the farrier comes. People may be able to give you advice after seeing them.
I would buy some pads to go in the boots if you are using them.

I had a pony with really thin soles but within a couple of months of being barefoot they really started to thicken up, change shape and improve so don't despair.
 
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I would shoe your horse to make him comfortable. I have all barefoot horses so I am not pro shoes however you cannot possibly make a decision to take this sort of horse barefoot quickly. During the lifetime of the set of shoes you can then explore all options, how you would feed him, keep him and what provision you can make for keeping him comfortable plus who is going to help you in the form of either Rockely, a barefoot trimmer or a farrier who specialises in barefoot horses.

Are you able to put a track around your field. I can see where the trimmer is coming from. If the horse cannot be stabled a track may solve the problem.
 
I had the same debate with.myself in November, put heart bars on & horse was instantly worse to ride. Diagnosis was similar in that xrays showed very minor changes to navicular bone.
My vet told me to perciver & started talking about pads & wedges, at that point I decided to ignore him & had the shoes left off at her next shoeing.
She was very easy to transition, few weeks footy on stony ground & was doing fun rides un the spring.
Unfortunately she is not quite right at the moment, vet thinks arthritis & we have started cartrophen jabs.
Not sure that rambling helps, other than to say you could try the heart bars for a bit & transition better time of year. Decision either way does not have to be permanent.
 
As Nic said to me, when deciding whether to put bar shoes on, you can always take them off again :D.

W1bbler out of interest what did your vet think post transition?
 
Vet is sceptical, but interested to learn more. He agrees my horse is definitely moving better & is amazed to watch her trot up our stony yard track.
The current issue is more back end than front & I suspect the fact that she regularly wears my 27yr gelding is not helping!
 
Thanks for all the replies, I think I have come to the decision to put him in heart bars for now and get his diet correct, once the ground softens then try to take him barefoot. As people say a horse that is going to find it hard to transition anyway is going to be even harder with rock solid ground. I have actually taken his boots off whilst I have given him bute as they are actually slightly too tight, I bought these 7 years ago and were slightly too big so nice to see his foot has got a bit more surface area now. I will definitely get some books and do as much research as I can as I really honestly can't see him coming sound in heart bars and staying sound in any shoe and even if he does how on earth am I supposed to know its not just a good patch like we had a couple of weeks ago?

My current farrier shod him when I first got him off the track, we moved out of his area after a year and I had to have another farrier that he recommended. His apprentice worked on his feet last july / august / September time and I can honestly say he can't have done a good job considering he did him and my other horse in the quickest time I've ever seen, less than an hour! I moved back into my current farriers area at the beginning of November last year and told me his feet were unlevel and he had some seedy toe. So he started to shoe him to try and get a "correct" foot I think. And in the February / March he started the intermittent lameness and a part of me wondered how much of this lameness was due to making him "correct". I still don't know and i'm still wondering if trying to make him correct is making him lame. Surely his feet will grow to support him how they need to.

I will try and put some pictures on from last night below, not the best as on grass i'm afraid. The bruising on the heels is from his boots which is why I've taken them off. Hope this works as on my google drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17ZCO4LqlXifzxJEUlZJc6CLr21oqg782gQ/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H08CKbSG3obBNF6G_L1NPqhoZVQyEsI-Bw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1alZemoxwZNd7uyTpD0z0GeNJkvNu51hBMg/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17iLk9UaV1kPqBplTG7t84OvI8IeZ07KhtA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/137gpfm8_ZK1ypgO0C7yyIpzBB9od4t372Q/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14UNhUX-nlloTpu3PN3FBGeeJBQQI-wJN3Q/view?usp=sharing
 
xStephx said:
Thanks for all the replies, I think I have come to the decision to put him in heart bars for now and get his diet correct, once the ground softens then try to take him barefoot. As people say a horse that is going to find it hard to transition anyway is going to be even harder with rock solid ground. I have actually taken his boots off whilst I have given him bute as they are actually slightly too tight, I bought these 7 years ago and were slightly too big so nice to see his foot has got a bit more surface area now. I will definitely get some books and do as much research as I can as I really honestly can't see him coming sound in heart bars and staying sound in any shoe and even if he does how on earth am I supposed to know its not just a good patch like we had a couple of weeks ago?

My current farrier shod him when I first got him off the track, we moved out of his area after a year and I had to have another farrier that he recommended. His apprentice worked on his feet last july / august / September time and I can honestly say he can't have done a good job considering he did him and my other horse in the quickest time I've ever seen, less than an hour! I moved back into my current farriers area at the beginning of November last year and told me his feet were unlevel and he had some seedy toe. So he started to shoe him to try and get a "correct" foot I think. And in the February / March he started the intermittent lameness and a part of me wondered how much of this lameness was due to making him "correct". I still don't know and i'm still wondering if trying to make him correct is making him lame. Surely his feet will grow to support him how they need to.

I will try and put some pictures on from last night below, not the best as on grass i'm afraid. The bruising on the heels is from his boots which is why I've taken them off. Hope this works as on my google drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17ZCO4LqlXifzxJEUlZJc6CLr21oqg782gQ/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H08CKbSG3obBNF6G_L1NPqhoZVQyEsI-Bw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1alZemoxwZNd7uyTpD0z0GeNJkvNu51hBMg/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17iLk9UaV1kPqBplTG7t84OvI8IeZ07KhtA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/137gpfm8_ZK1ypgO0C7yyIpzBB9od4t372Q/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14UNhUX-nlloTpu3PN3FBGeeJBQQI-wJN3Q/view?usp=sharing
Click to expand...

Those hooves definitely need comfortable boots :) Have a look at the Easyboot Cloud boots - I think Hoof Bootique are stocking them now.

They also need a diet change. I would suggest going for the big guns straight off - Forageplus Hoof and Skin Health - or if you can restrict grass and feed a lot of hay, the Laminae-Plus. Added to something like soaked Copra and plain chop, rather than a commercial pelleted balancer, you may see a difference in hoof quality. But I suspect what the horse is standing on in the photos is a large part of the problem :)
 
Those heels do look very under-run and the heel bulb in the fifth photo looks like it could be very sore. I think that having a long term plan to take him barefoot when the conditions are better is very sensible.
 
Cant offer any more advice OP but just wanted to say OP that those pics look just like my mares did after she was diagnosed with the same issues - we went barefoot and she now had much better feet, is sound, in work and just started jumping again. It's not always the easiest route but it's worth it to have a happy, sound horse again. Good luck.
 
Hello,

just wanted to say hi as your post is SO similar to my horse - very similar lameness. I'm now a year down the line and have just had the eggbar shoes v barefoot dilemma myself so thought I'd add my experience in.

My horse had always been barefoot and competed endurance without problems, but went suddenly lame last year bilaterally and mainly just on circle on concrete. X rays, MRI etc, bla bla bla - anyway my initial approach was to do a complete foot rehab as far as possible (a little like my own version of Rockley farm i suppose); we initially had him just on thick straw bed at night and out in the day with gel pads + cavallos, then I very, very very gradually reintroduced different surfaces at a rate of about 2-5 mins per day. He initially came sound, was sound for 3/4 months, and I literally couldn't have been more careful with his feet.

Then lameness reappeared. Vet stumped, farrier stumped. I got two more remedial farriers for consultation and also sent history to Rockley Farm. Rockley were initially helpful but wouldn't comment on rehabbing a horse that had problems while barefoot.

Therefore my next step has been remedial farriery; shoes have been on for three weeks now, eggbars with gel pad in the bad hoof. No improvement yet on concrete but seems a little better on surface i think. So I'm still at the waiting and seeing stage - fingers crossed, if this fails too i have no idea what I'll do.

I'd love to have him barefoot as he's always been, but having discussed this with plenty of experts now at a great deal of length and thought about it very carefully, I don't think it's going to help. I am just sharing this because it's quite different to what other people have said so thought it might help to have a different point of view.
 
Faracat - are you ready for a tale of woe. It's literally a mystery. Nerve blocks isolated lameness to front feet (initially it was both feet, now just one). Initial diagnosis from first set of x rays last summer was 'wear and tear' of nav and coffin joint. Subsequent MRI said no, they're in good health (they even did his fetlocks for free as couldn't find anything in his feet).
MRI diagnosis was that it must be bruising of nav bones - hence very careful slow recovery, prognosis good. Had tildren treatment too last autumn.
Since re-lameness and another set of x rays, they considered that it might deep abscess (we've had a repeated area of hoof wall haemorrhage/abscesses + a shadow on pedal bone of more recent set of x rays). Tried some extremely strong antibiotics. Still same.
Next diagnosis following consultation with various other people incl two remedial farriers - it could be slight hoof abnormality due to mild conformational issues (his conformation is generally pretty good - sigh - but e.g. very slight rotation on one side, one hoof more boxy than the other etc) hence remedial farriery as most recent port of call.
I've also tried a month of daily hydrotherapy (we are lucky to have a knee-deep ford next to farm) to strengthen soft tissues.

So we've pretty much ruled out everything except this conformational issue causing discomfort somewhere hence the remedial shoeing. If this doesn't work I'm just going to give him a year off and see what happens. It's been a year now since the initial lameness, and the insurance company (KBIS, cannot praise them highly enough) and I are £4,000 and a lot of sweat and tears down between us. If you have any other ideas please do be my guest and suggest them. He's only lame on a circle on concrete, barely perceptible on straight. It's extra frustrating as he's pretty brave generally and doesn't fuss when injured, so for him to be showing anything means it must be a real problem, he's no wuss.

Sorry OP didn't mean to hijack your thread, I just wanted to share in case the barefoot/not barefoot experience is any use to you, as I just spent many long long long hours researching and deciding what to do myself.
 
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How I wish that I had a super idea. You really have been through the wringer trying to fix him. :( I agree that a year off, if no improvement from the remedial shoeing, is an option.

Has the shadow gone, now that he's had the antibiotics? I had always believed that antibiotics aren't very effective with hoof capsule issues? Has he had anymore abscesses?
 
That's ok Morgan, it's interesting to hear of a similar issue from a horse that is already barefoot. As much info as I can gather from all perspectives will hopefully help me.

I've ordered a balancer and I will switch from top spec super conditioning flakes to just naked oats if I can find any so that he has no soya in his diet. He's quite a fussy eater so don't want to make too many radical changes. He's already on 2 x 3/4 mugs of linseed (was 2 x full mugs but have just dropped this a little as now at an ideal weight). He will get sugar beet in winter and I may feed him graze on as a chaff which I fed last winter. He's currently on dengie Hi-Fi original, would it be worth changing this to something else like graze on now? He also gets turmeric and ground pepper to try to help with any inflammation.
 
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