Heatbreaking... Please help

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gemmypie44

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My mother in law had riding lessons in the summer after she enjoyed strolling around on my horse, so we went on the look out for a pony to enjoy hacking out, we found a dealer who was fantastic an I will not say a bad word about, we brought a 15.1 ( yes not a pony) Irish cob, he arrived with absolute fear in his eyes, but has cone on so well, we couldn't catch him now he stands like a angel this all just seemed to be because he didn't know us, he has improved so much, he is absolutely fantastic out hacking just relaxes n follows on (exactly what we wanted) but we can't school him he hates the school, there's not a bad bone in him, the fear comes back in his eyes he moves quickly ask him to walk on and it's as tho his back legs jump into gear he completely hollows out through his back (everything has been checked) new saddle still not much change in relaxing, and today I have been out to just have a slow walk around the school. Put him on a lunge an he feels he needs to gallop in circles, many people have said it seems his backing process must of been, run in circles till he was on his knees, throw the tack on, hop on and go. He is so traumatised, today I was on him he just started galloping straight at the side of the school, he stopped I jumped off and the look in his face..... Words cannot describe, the dealer has always said she will take him back for a quieter ride, but we have done so much with him in the short time, but he isn't my horse he is for a novice who wants to enjoy him... We can't risk her been on him when he scares himself. Has anyone had this before can we change this. Because when push comes to shove my mother in law we have her confidence knocked so much she will pack it in all together, and he will go, but where and how he can be a test ride is impossible so he won't be going anywhere unless like us they fall in love with him, he will make a fantastic show cob...

If anyone knows if this may just go with time, tell me is it worth the risk?
We are in Chesterfield Derbyshire if there is anyone who can help it wouldnt be unconsidered.
The people in the yard say this shouldn't concern me and I have enough to enjoy with my horse, but I can't see him turned away.
 
Can you turn him out in the school, with several small piles of hay or other forage? If so leave him there for the day and carry this on for a week, so that he decides that the school is not a scary or special place. The ntack him up ride one circuit, untack and leave with food again, shouldn't take long for him to realise that there is no problem there.
 
gemmypie44 said:
My mother in law had riding lessons in the summer after she enjoyed strolling around on my horse, so we went on the look out for a pony to enjoy hacking out, we found a dealer who was fantastic an I will not say a bad word about, we brought a 15.1 ( yes not a pony) Irish cob, he arrived with absolute fear in his eyes, but has cone on so well, we couldn't catch him now he stands like a angel this all just seemed to be because he didn't know us, he has improved so much, he is absolutely fantastic out hacking just relaxes n follows on (exactly what we wanted) but we can't school him he hates the school, there's not a bad bone in him, the fear comes back in his eyes he moves quickly ask him to walk on and it's as tho his back legs jump into gear he completely hollows out through his back (everything has been checked) new saddle still not much change in relaxing, and today I have been out to just have a slow walk around the school. Put him on a lunge an he feels he needs to gallop in circles, many people have said it seems his backing process must of been, run in circles till he was on his knees, throw the tack on, hop on and go. He is so traumatised, today I was on him he just started galloping straight at the side of the school, he stopped I jumped off and the look in his face..... Words cannot describe, the dealer has always said she will take him back for a quieter ride, but we have done so much with him in the short time, but he isn't my horse he is for a novice who wants to enjoy him... We can't risk her been on him when he scares himself. Has anyone had this before can we change this. Because when push comes to shove my mother in law we have her confidence knocked so much she will pack it in all together, and he will go, but where and how he can be a test ride is impossible so he won't be going anywhere unless like us they fall in love with him, he will make a fantastic show cob...

If anyone knows if this may just go with time, tell me is it worth the risk?
We are in Chesterfield Derbyshire if there is anyone who can help it wouldnt be unconsidered.
The people in the yard say this shouldn't concern me and I have enough to enjoy with my horse, but I can't see him turned away.
Click to expand...

Mickey Gavin, he might be able to help you.

His number is 07974 214990

ETA he is in your area
 
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The worst combination is twonovices rider and horse so do send this cob back and get him swapped. Are the dealers still in Dronfield Woodhouse because they did have an excellent reputation for sensible horses.
The cob will benefit from his time with you but if you jump off when he is worried, he's never going to gain confidence and his breaking sounds to have been utterly rushed to me. We have had horses like this before, they have been backed and jumped the same day usually with a lunge whip behind them and it takes skilled riding to teach them not to be afraid.
For both their sakes send him back.
 
as somebody else about turning him out. and spend time sat there with him, A couple of other things to try to test his reaction.

ride with another horse beside/infront/behind just like on a hack

lead him off another horse in there.
 
Hi Gemmypie,
If I was you I would completely forget riding or lunging him in the school for the moment, as it is not worth you or him getting hurt.
I would take it in small steps with him, he has obviously had some tramatic experience from being in a school, and your job is essentially to ensure he feels safe.
I would put a hat on, gloves, and a get a long line and take him into the school for a few minutes, get him to stand praise him, (maybe a treat?) and take him out again, repeat this process daily and start increasing the time in the school weekly.
After he starts to settle down a bit in the school I would possibly do his feeds in the school like Festive suggested, get him so he understands only nice things happen in there.
As you suggested there isnt any problems with his tack, and he is fine out hacking, it might be worth checking his back and/or teeth? just to make sure, but I'm sure they are ok from what you have said.
Then once he is comfortable being in the school, I would start lunging him in there first, it might be worth getting a qualified instructor to help with this part to get him going nicely on the lunge rein before trying to ride him in there. Also the natural horsemanship ideas and advise is useful in gaining the horses trust, there are videos on horseandcountry.tv with Monty Roberts and Kelly Marks.
Hope this helps and he gets better for you! :)
 
I agree with Henryhorn, unless you are prepared to work with a trainer to basically restart the poor guy! It really isn't worth the risk of anyone getting injured and you don't sound like you have the experience to deal with this. If your MIL has really grown so attached that she won't consider sending back then I guess a trainer is your best option, at least to start with. Is he ok hacking out and just behaves like this in the school, in which case you could just forget about working in the school for a while until he has really settled with your MIL and is more confident in his rider. I really hope you manage to find a solution for him.
 
It may be he associate the school with a bad experience and letting him loose for the odd half hour may help allay the fears but why do you need the school if he is a good hack?
I never had a school available for my first ponies but did a lot of schooling out hacking.

( Although how did you test ride him?)

I would not try lunging but would try leading round and work up to long reining - keep it different to the belt round and jump on he may have been subjected too.
 
Thnks for all the positive advice, it is just unbelievable how relaxed he is hacking, we need to get him used to the school as the mil still needs lessons and he really does try to look after her, as I said she would not swap him, we feel if it came to saying bye we would get him a good home with a competent showing family, and the mil would call the horsey world quits, I will try all the food in the school, he needs re-training I know this, yes I can do all the gaining trust I have the experience of handling horses but I have know idea about backing, we are going to try parelli :/ (don't say it!) only to gain a more relaxed horse and a friend has had amazing results. He would never hurt anyone on purpose or be naughty, I will get the vet around again, but as he has not 1 problem out hacking an we cannot see anything wrong with his teeth we just feel it's behavioural. What do you honestly suggest.
Would you try? from what I said would you keep him or say that was a bad experience?
 
If he has come on so much in the short time you've had him then there's no reason to suggest the same can't be said about his aversion to the school. I would howevr STOPc trying to work him in the school. Continue with the hacking if he is so good at that and your MIL can do some schooling exercises whilst on a hack - there is no need for a school if ultimately all she wants to do is hack about anyway. This more relaxed approach will help the trust build and then maybe, if it is possible try having a lesson in a secure field as opposed to a school? You can do the feeding in the school too or just turn him out and do 'stuff' ie, raking, poo picking etc whilst he is loose in there so he doesn't see it as a scary place to be.

It all depends if you want to put the effort in, no horse is 100% perfect, they will all have their quirk and it's about trying to help them deal with it. I would certainly look at contacting a professional to help you.

Good luck!
 
Pacey said:
Mickey Gavin, he might be able to help you.

His number is 07974 214990

ETA he is in your area
Click to expand...


Ditto. Strongly recommend Mickey. We've used him, know of others who have as well; would all use him again.

If for any reason you can't get him, you're going to have to take things right back to the basics. Teach the lad all over again that the school is not to be feared. Walk him round in there in a quiet and matter of fact manner. Get to the point where he'll eat happily in there. Keep the sessions really, really short; build it up very, very gradually.
 
honestley.. for a horse that may of had a bad experaince i would not be trying parelli!

out of intrest have you tried ridign him in a field??? is he the same?
 
I would keep trying with him as he sounds like a genuine horse who has obviously had a very bad experience. Do you know what it is about the school that he dislikes? IS it the enclosed area, the surface, being asked to work more into a contact (than you would do out hacking presumably?) Once you know the exact trigger for his behaviour, it will be a lot easier to cure it.

I would guess his phobia at the moment if being ridden in an enclosed space. Therefore as he is so good out hacking I would carry on hacking and try to school him a bit on the hacks, eg. simple transitions, getting him to halt, walk, trot etc on command. Practise putting him in the lead and doing transitions there. Once he is listening to you try and find a large field to ride in, large enough that he doesn't feel trapped, then start to do some schooling in there, doing large circles and lots more transitions so he is focused on you rather than worrying. Gradually aim to ride in a smaller field, so a bit more enclosed, don't feel you have to do loads at a time, prehaps find one you can hack to, just do a few minutes schooling then carry on your hack.

Once he is coping well with this find somewhere with a large arena you can hire (something like 40 by 60metres would be ideal as he shouldn't feel so enclosed and now he will be better schooled so will trust and listen to his rider more). School him here again for fairly short sessions, always making sure he is happy, if nessecary walk the whole time, give him time to relax and realise schooling does not need to be stressfull. I do think he will come round, you just need to act like you have all the time in the world and never push him to the point where he panics, or if he does ever do this stay calm, steer him in a large circle asking him to stop with your voice, try not to pull the reins, and he should gradualluy calm down.

I think that because he is so good out hacking there is definately hope for him. Take your time and I'm sure he'll get there. Good luck :)
 
My cousin got an ex hireling from Ireland and first time I tried to ride him (as supposed to just wandering) in the school it was at PC camp and he just took off around the school (the Stockland Lovell school so not small) in complete fear. I had a very good instructor who just carried on ignoring the plonker. By the end of the week he had calmed down but I am confident with quirky horses. After weekly lessons for a year my cousin had him working calmly. This horse was perfect hunting and hacking just a fear of the school.
So on a positive side there is hope on a negative side it took an ex-MFH to ride him for a year so takes a confident rider!
 
He sounds a lovely horse. As others have said forget the school, as he is young and you unsure leave it and concentrate on what he does well until you can get experienced help
and he trusts your judgement.
I have to say in general we always want what we haven't got! If I was looking to buy a horse,one that is safe hacking with a novice would be at the top of my list. Schooling is just an extra and that can be done on a hack, which I would do with him. Shoulder in, leg yeild, turn on the forehand can all be done on a track. A young horse first year should be establishing the basics in baby steps, and if its a cob type going round in circles at any speed is hard.
When I was young,many years ago, horses came broken from Ireland that had literally had a saddle thrown on their backs and trotted down the road. When we got them we wondered why they didn't go straight lines, wandered and couldn't turn corners. But they were kind and brillant in traffic and all of them went on to make good mounts.
Take your time and get someone knowledgable to help you and he could end up a horse for a lifetime.
 
My Coloured mare hates schooling but loves hacking. When we first got her she wouldnt canter and was a nightmare in the school but an absolute darling in every other way after much perserverence though she went on to have a lot of success in the show ring. We started by schooling out on hacks and then introducing school work for litterally minutes at the end of a hack so she was a bit more tired but had also done something she was comfortable with and then gradually built it up. We would also take her for walks in hand around the arena and luckily due to the surface where able to turn out in there so would put her out with a friend to have a run around and check it out.

She is still not an avid schooler but will do it and is not dangerous but still loves her hacks and now is semi retired weve had her 10 years and shes 19 so deserves a break.

To be honest I would persevere with him and try schooling in a field and taking him in the school to cool off after hacks and make sure when you first do it there is another horse in there (being ridden of course) for him to take the lead off.
 
Please do not "try" parelli with him, poor devil already has been messed about enough in his short life.
I rarely answer posts like this these days but as someone who has spent most of her life handling horses like him I can't stress strongly enough he needs professional help to turn him into a sensible safe ride.
Horses like him are no problem whatsoever to experienced riders because he will take his confidence from them, but you are hoping to first help him then expect him to be brave enough to help a novice rider.
If you really must keep him then send him somewhere he can be trained properly and be prepared to pay for it. Then once he comes back make sure someone who knows what they're doing rides him in the school.
I shudder at reading some of the advice given to you on here, he is by the sounds of it unschooled and inexperienced, to ride such a horse in an open field for instance is an invitation for disaster.
You are far safer hacking in company because at least he will always want to stay with his companions.
It's perfectly possible to school out hacking, so perhaps that could be the solution for now, spend time working on his steering/brakes etc and leave any formal schooling in an arena until Spring by which time he will have settled more and grown up a bit. As Robysfarm suggested, don't do more than a little arena work at the end of a hack.
Sorry if my advice sounds not what you would like to hear, but the number of horses I have started probably number hundreds so I don't offer advice in ignorance.
 
Just hack out for now and forget the schooling for a while

Do you need to be schooling him?Does it really matter right now? What is your MIL aiming to do with him?

After a few months of hacking and trust/bonding you could try popping him into the school as part or an ending to a nice relaxed hack. Walk him once around the school, then straight out again and ending it on a positive note with lots and lots of praise.

Make the school a fun place to be My mare didn't school at all, so we played in there. Now she'll drag me in:D

He sounds an honest chap and if your MIL has that feeling of being looked after by him on her hacks, it'll be worth the wait and of course the experience in gaining his trust It's not the destination that matters, but the journey

Well done you for being such a brilliant DIL:D
 
I am an experianced rider I just lack the ideas of how to keep him, because this is not my desison I have done plenty of work with him already, he does need extra training but I lack the time, so I will be seeking proffesional help, the parelli is because a friend if mine who had a horse who couldn't be saddled and would attack people and he is now quietly competing, which seemed a way to help u US understand how our lad is acting the way he is, I am not a parelli enthusiast.... I just feel maybe if it did work for him it may be a idea to have a go with as he as responded well to a few games already which now means we can catch him and pick his feet up... And today we tacked up without a glitch, I appreciate the positive comments but do not underestimate the danger he produces been green and fearful, but unlike my horse he is not pushy or naughty, minty is respectful and loves his attention (and food) and the bond we have already is worth helping him, as we feel letting him elsewhere they may not take such a caring outlook as it is much easier to pick up a crop! I wouldn't of asked for help if I wasn't willing to help him I know how he will react before he does it, he just needs to understand that we are not going to hurt him and he is now safe (he is starting to understand we won't eat him), he is not a product to us he is a companion an a friend. Who trys his hardest for everything we ask of him so he deserves the best chance even if in a years time spending money on training he will not be 100% he will be able to go to a home where yes.. They will be able to make the most if him than fix him.

Mickey emailed back I was honest and we will be speaking about his training development and he said it can be fixed for him and the mil

Thanks everyone
Happy new year!
 
If I were you, and you are determined to keep this horse, please don't use phrases like 'Try Parelli', If you are going to go down the natural route with him, you really need to get a professional trainer, whether in Parelli or one of the others.

People are right when they say that he doesn't need to be messed about with any more, seeing as how he seems to have had one bad start.

Natural horsemanship is not a quick fix, it cannot be just done, by someone who has watched a few DVD's or bought a kit. You really do need to be very committed to natural horsemanship and study it and find a good instructor.

I'm sure your friend has done good work with her horse, but unless she is very experienced in Parelli (and she may well be, I don't know), it's a big undertaking, to take on a horse that has issues, to solve those and prepair him for a novice rider.

Currently, there are more traditional instructors about than there are natural ones, so it would be easier for you to find a 'good' traditional instructor locally. As far as the horse is concerned he won't know the difference at this stage. It's normally when a horse that has been trained using natural methods goes to a traditional instructor or home that real problems occur.

I am now totally committed to natural methods, but my advice is, that unless your friend is very experience, very competant and confident, I'd go down the traditional route, from a practical point of view.
 
Sounds good that you have a professional involved now. There's no reason in the world, that with the correct help, he won't turn into the horse your MIL needs. I know it's a pain having to spend the money on training, but will be so worth it in the long run.
 
Mickey Gavin is very good, I'd recommend him too. He talks straight but having seen him work with a few, he knows his stuff.
Ditto advice about avoiding Parelli. The possiblility sent shivers down my spine.
 
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