Heavy breathing, lame, laminitis?

[Wagtail]

Anyone know if raspy breathing can be a first indication of laminitis? My poor 18 year old mare who is retired due to her left shoulder having been damaged 2 years ago is in a sorry state. She is well in herself - eating, perky and cheeky, but around 2 weeks ago I noticed her breathing sounded strange, just while she was eating, then she went about 6 tenths lame in her good leg. She had a digital pulse so I thought possible abscess and poulticed for 4 days but no pus came out. I got the farrier and the vet. Both agreed not an abscess. Vet checked entire leg and could find nothing wrong so just advised danilon for ten days and nerve blocks if no better. Tonight though I noticed her pulse was raised to around 60 and her breathing still noisy when eating. She also has a very slight pulse in her other fore. She is reluctant to come out of her stable at all and is still around 4 tenths lame with the danilon. Her feet are not really hot. Vet is hopefully coming again later, but due to illness (of one vet) may not be able to unless emergency. I wondered if anyone has any idea what it could be? Could it be laminitis? She is fed haylage (very hi fibre and won't eat hay) and one small feed of alfalfa and horse nuts a day. She is up to date with all jabs and worming. She has an apple bum but always has had even when competition fit and her ribs are showing but she's not thin. Vet said she was an ideal weight. Thanks

 

[ISHmad]

Raised pulses, reluctance to move and the lameness would have me suspecting lami, yes. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[ElleSkywalker]

Could be, black pony puffed liked a train when she had lammi as well as reluctance to move & raised pulses.

With her being 18 it could be cushings related, does she have fat pads above her eyes, or been drinking more than usual?

Might be an idea to ask vet to blood test for cushings & insulin resistance.

Lammi is a horrid sneaky disease with many different causes, so please don't beat your self up if she does have it, she sounds in great condition & being fed sensibly, there's not much more you can do to prevent it!

Really hope it isn't. Hope she feels better soon xx

 

[Bigginge]

I'd say heavy breathing could be a sign of pain, coupled with a digital pulse and reluctance to move it indicates something in the foot. Not all laminitics feet get really hot especially past the initial inflammatory phase. Other signs to look for, walk her out on a hard level surface (just to see how she moves, horses with laminitis should move as little as possible)watch her foot fall, a horse with laminitis will try to put their heels down first to take the pressure. Look at her hooves, do her toes look long/longer than normal? Also feel down her pastern and along her coronet band, if there is a dip this could indicate pedal bone rotation. Turn her in a tight circle, is she reluctant to turn on her front feet.

If you are concerned about lami, and in the absence of a vet, I would treat as if she is, it won't do her any harm if she isn't and could help if she is. Keep her in her stable on a deep, really deep, shavings bed right to the door, this will offer her feet some support. I know you said she won't eat hay but really she should have hay soaked for 12 hours, could you mix it in with some haylage to tempt her? I would cut out the nuts, alfalfa isn't too bad as they do need some protein as long as it's not coated in molasses.

Will keep my fingers crossed for you that it is something nice and easy to solve.

 

[foraday]

It is sounding like laminitis induced by either EMS or Cushings.

Heavy/laboured breathing is usually pain but also EMS/Cushings horses have COPD/ROA my little chap sometimes sounds like a steam train

Good luck and hope you can sort out your mare

x

 

[Wagtail]

Raised pulses, reluctance to move and the lameness would have me suspecting lami, yes. Hope I'm wrong though.

Oh dear. Thanks ISHmad.

 

[Wagtail]

Could be, black pony puffed liked a train when she had lammi as well as reluctance to move & raised pulses.

With her being 18 it could be cushings related, does she have fat pads above her eyes, or been drinking more than usual?

Might be an idea to ask vet to blood test for cushings & insulin resistance.

Lammi is a horrid sneaky disease with many different causes, so please don't beat your self up if she does have it, she sounds in great condition & being fed sensibly, there's not much more you can do to prevent it!

Really hope it isn't. Hope she feels better soon xx

No fat pads but I have noticed her drinking a lot (has a drinker so difficult to measure how much, but definitely more thirsty lately.)

 

[Wagtail]

I'd say heavy breathing could be a sign of pain, coupled with a digital pulse and reluctance to move it indicates something in the foot. Not all laminitics feet get really hot especially past the initial inflammatory phase. Other signs to look for, walk her out on a hard level surface (just to see how she moves, horses with laminitis should move as little as possible)watch her foot fall, a horse with laminitis will try to put their heels down first to take the pressure. Look at her hooves, do her toes look long/longer than normal? Also feel down her pastern and along her coronet band, if there is a dip this could indicate pedal bone rotation. Turn her in a tight circle, is she reluctant to turn on her front feet.

If you are concerned about lami, and in the absence of a vet, I would treat as if she is, it won't do her any harm if she isn't and could help if she is. Keep her in her stable on a deep, really deep, shavings bed right to the door, this will offer her feet some support. I know you said she won't eat hay but really she should have hay soaked for 12 hours, could you mix it in with some haylage to tempt her? I would cut out the nuts, alfalfa isn't too bad as they do need some protein as long as it's not coated in molasses.

Will keep my fingers crossed for you that it is something nice and easy to solve.

Thanks for the good advice. I will get her bed built up more. I have owned or worked with horses all my life but am lucky enough not to have one with lami before, maybe because I never had ponies. This mare is my horse of a lifetime and I can't bear to see her suffering. She has been through a lot already. I just hope this is something that she can get over, but I have a bad feeling about it TBH.

 

[Wagtail]

It is sounding like laminitis induced by either EMS or Cushings.

Heavy/laboured breathing is usually pain but also EMS/Cushings horses have COPD/ROA my little chap sometimes sounds like a steam train

Good luck and hope you can sort out your mare

x

Thanks. Is it easily controlled?

 

[Honey08]

TBH if she is at the stage where she won't even walk out of the stable, then perhaps you are at the emergency stage if it is laminitis... Could you ring the vets and discuss whether it is an emergency or not with them?

Our old sec A got laminitis in winter and it was the haylage that caused it, we think.. Could you soak the haylage perhaps? It would be better to get her on hay IMO..

Good luck to you. I hope that it isn't.

 

[Wagtail]

TBH if she is at the stage where she won't even walk out of the stable, then perhaps you are at the emergency stage if it is laminitis... Could you ring the vets and discuss whether it is an emergency or not with them?

Our old sec A got laminitis in winter and it was the haylage that caused it, we think.. Could you soak the haylage perhaps? It would be better to get her on hay IMO..

Good luck to you. I hope that it isn't.

Thanks. I will soak the haylage for her. But she would starve rather than eat hay. I have tried it lots of times. There is nothing wrong with the hay but she won't touch it. I may get some happy hoof and some hi fi and start replacing some of the haylage with that. This batch of haylage is sweeter than the last, so maybe it is what is causing it. Though she has never had trouble before even when she was on competition mix twice a day and rich grass. It may be brought on by stress (just before this happened, her companion had been on box rest and now he is as boistrous as anything and trying to get her to play all the time and making her squeal so I am going to keep her in today). Or it could be something metabolic such as Cushings. Just hope I can get to the bottom of it. Vet has said he will be able to come out some time this afternoon.

 

[amandap]

Thanks. I will soak the haylage for her. But she would starve rather than eat hay. I have tried it lots of times. There is nothing wrong with the hay but she won't touch it.

I believe this is a bit like an addiction. I would start adding some soaked hay and gradually start increasing the ratio to wean her on to hay. Or, get a well known brand (Marksway) of timothy haylage for her. Haylage can be a big no no for some horses, it really is worth the effort weaning her off haylage imo.

 

[Marydoll]

It is sounding like laminitis induced by either EMS or Cushings.

Heavy/laboured breathing is usually pain but also EMS/Cushings horses have COPD/ROA my little chap sometimes sounds like a steam train

Good luck and hope you can sort out your mare

x

Agreed

 

[Lotty]

Hi, my mare had laminitis 2 years ago, the first signs with her was heavy breathing and slightly lame. I really hope it isn't.

 

[AmyMay]

I'd say heavy breathing could be a sign of pain, coupled with a digital pulse and reluctance to move it indicates something in the foot

Completely agree.

Wagtail, does she have a temperature?

I would be inclined to ask the emergency vet to come out today.

 

[thatsmygirl]

I would also get the vet today as it does sound like it could be lamanitis and if it is, in my mind knowing what my lad went through with it... It is a emergency.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Wagtail, my OAP little fuzzy had similar in late November - breathing sounded raspy but otherwise was very bright - then she went off hay - kept changing it for other hay etc. Also started drinking lots too. All this in the space of a fortnight.
Then one morning was sweating along lower flanks & repeated next day, so got vet in asap, tho breathing had returned to normal (it was only periodic before then )
Got bloods done for cushings & was confirmed, also high liver damage. Been on treatment since the Thurs before xmas & the sweating has subsided a little, tho oddly has had a mild lami attack last weekend. This is the 1st in 28 yrs! Restricted grazing, nothing changed, no stresses either. Still very bright & happy tho

Now monitoring on 1mg per day, more bloods in a fortnight.

Good luck & hope vet gets out asap to sort out as if yours is not wanting to move, then it sounds pretty urgent

 

[Archangel]

I would go with the emergency vet. Heavy breathing would indicate pain to me (unless you suspect some respiratory problem) and she doesn't sound like she is improving. Even if I have the niggliest doubt about laminitis I always treat it as such until proven differently. Of course with the increased drinking you have the spectre of cushings as well.

Fingers crossed for your mare.

 

[Wagtail]

Completely agree.

Wagtail, does she have a temperature?

I would be inclined to ask the emergency vet to come out today.

Unfortunately my thermometer has broken, but the vet is due here in an hour or so.

 

[Wagtail]

I believe this is a bit like an addiction. I would start adding some soaked hay and gradually start increasing the ratio to wean her on to hay. Or, get a well known brand (Marksway) of timothy haylage for her. Haylage can be a big no no for some horses, it really is worth the effort weaning her off haylage imo.

My haylage supplier does timothy haylage that is really dry. I wonder if this would be okay for her?

 

[Wagtail]

Hi, my mare had laminitis 2 years ago, the first signs with her was heavy breathing and slightly lame. I really hope it isn't.

How is your mare now? I hope it wasn't fatal.

 

[Wagtail]

Wagtail, my OAP little fuzzy had similar in late November - breathing sounded raspy but otherwise was very bright - then she went off hay - kept changing it for other hay etc. Also started drinking lots too. All this in the space of a fortnight.
Then one morning was sweating along lower flanks & repeated next day, so got vet in asap, tho breathing had returned to normal (it was only periodic before then )
Got bloods done for cushings & was confirmed, also high liver damage. Been on treatment since the Thurs before xmas & the sweating has subsided a little, tho oddly has had a mild lami attack last weekend. This is the 1st in 28 yrs! Restricted grazing, nothing changed, no stresses either. Still very bright & happy tho

Now monitoring on 1mg per day, more bloods in a fortnight.

Good luck & hope vet gets out asap to sort out as if yours is not wanting to move, then it sounds pretty urgent

Thanks, I will get bloods done. I have noticed she is much wetter than usual too. I do hope your girl recovers.

 

[Wagtail]

I would go with the emergency vet. Heavy breathing would indicate pain to me (unless you suspect some respiratory problem) and she doesn't sound like she is improving. Even if I have the niggliest doubt about laminitis I always treat it as such until proven differently. Of course with the increased drinking you have the spectre of cushings as well.

Fingers crossed for your mare.

Thank you.

 

[Bigginge]

Hope the vet has some answers for you and your girl. Re the haylage, Robert Eustace at the laminitis clinic reckons it is the acidity of haylage rather than the sugar levels that cause problems for those prone to laminitis so if you get some of the dryer stuff, I presume this means it won't have got so far down the fermentation process and the ph will be higher and so better for her??

 

[AmyMay]

Unfortunately my thermometer has broken, but the vet is due here in an hour or so.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Wagtail]

Hope the vet has some answers for you and your girl. Re the haylage, Robert Eustace at the laminitis clinic reckons it is the acidity of haylage rather than the sugar levels that cause problems for those prone to laminitis so if you get some of the dryer stuff, I presume this means it won't have got so far down the fermentation process and the ph will be higher and so better for her??

That's a good point. I'll ask the vet about it. Thanks.

 

[Wagtail]

Vet has been and it IS laminitis. She has taken bloods as suspects cushings. Says that she could stand to lose some weight as she needs to be on the thin side of good if she is to avoid any rotation happening. So far it looks very mild but obviously, being a big warmblood it would be very serious for her if it worstened. I also have to get her hay. Vet said all kinds of haylage is a no no.

 

[amandap]

Vet has been and it IS laminitis. She has taken bloods as suspects cushings. Says that she could stand to lose some weight as she needs to be on the thin side of good if she is to avoid any rotation happening. So far it looks very mild but obviously, being a big warmblood it would be very serious for her if it worstened. I also have to get her hay. Vet said all kinds of haylage is a no no.

I'm sorry but at least you know what you're dealing with. Have a look here and think about joining the Yahoo group linked. http://www.ecirhorse.com/#
I'm afraid you must also soak the hay. There is an emergency diet described which imo is worth implementing until you know more.
Lots of work but getting very tight with diet is key in my experience.

I'm impressed to read your vets advice. Best of luck, sending strength.

 

[Wagtail]

I'm sorry but at least you know what you're dealing with. Have a look here and think about joining the Yahoo group linked. http://www.ecirhorse.com/#
I'm afraid you must also soak the hay. There is an emergency diet described which imo is worth implementing until you know more.
Lots of work but getting very tight with diet is key in my experience.

I'm impressed to read your vets advice. Best of luck, sending strength.

Thanks, I will take a look. This horse means the world to me, more than any other animal I have ever known. I am very aware that because of this I must prepare myself for the worst and not let her suffer. I have got it wrong in the past, let the vets keep going with treatments, hanging onto every speck of hope, when really the animal should have been PTS. I am determined to get it right with her. Hopefully, we will get it under control and she will be fine, but if not, I will do the right thing by her. I have ordered in some hay and until I get it early next week will soak her (very dry) haylage and suppliment it with hi fi and happy hoof.

 

[amandap]

How is she doing wagtail? Sending healing vibes.