Height of Piaffe

[Willow1306]

Hi,
Please could anybody tell me how high a true piaffe step should be? i.e. half way up the floor-bound cannon, higher than this or lower?

I found an article stating it a little while ago and now i can't find the article and need the info for a project. (Don't worry - it isn't me trying to get Piaffe out of my horse !)

Thanks in advance,
Charlotte

 

[kerilli]

i think we need Partoow to answer this!
Umm, it's difficult to say, depends on the individual horse's ability, but i was told that 1/2 way up the floor-bound cannon is the ideal... many horses could not do this though, obviously.
i don't know if it's relevant, but i read somewhere that someone did an experiment with pressure pads on the floor, and that classically-trained horses actually physically took more weight behind in piaffe (i.e. their hind end got heavier, forehand lighter) but comp-trained horses didn't. might be worth hunting about for maybe?

 

[FREESTYLER]

Enjoy the reading!!!!!!!!!!!

Relative vs. Absolute Elevation

Absolute elevation of the neck.
Relative
Ok, we have to sort out the nomenclature, here. Relative is "the relation something has" to something else. In this case, the relative differences between the front end of the horse and the quarters.


Absolute
is in this case that it is "not relying on comparison" to anything but itself. Absolute elevation is thus the elevation of the forehand, like what happens when you lift the horse by the withers with a crane. The withers are elevated compared to how they were when they were not lifted.


Absolute elevation of the neck.So, which one is the correct one when we are dealing with classical dressage? My answer will not be as easy as you first might think! It is easy to learn from reading dressage literature, that the forehand should be higher than the quarters, that the horse should be uphill. One will further read that the correct raising of the forehand is not really that, but a lowering of the quarters. The hindlegs bend, and thus the croup sinks. The whithers are left on the same height as before, but are all of a sudden higher than the quarters. They are in relative elevation compared to the quarters. Relative elevation.



A correct piaffe with a relative elevation
of the whole forehand.So we take a measuring stick and measure our horse. Then we have him piaffe correctly, and measure him while he is doing it. Will he be of the same height? Well, apart from it being hard to tell because the horse actually moves some in the piaffe, I would say that he will be higher in front in the piaffe, without comparing it to the hindquarters. A horse of 16 hands will be 16.1 in the piaffe. The forehand will actually be in absolute elevation.



The skeleton of the
entire frontleg.Well, if relative elevation, a lowering of the croup so the withers look higher, is the goal, then what is this? Well, this is a by-product of collection. The weight-bearing hindlegs relieve the frontlegs of some load, and the forehand lifts some. This is so because of how the shoulders attach the frontlegs of the horse to the body. I shall explain...



The sling of the shoulders seen from the front.The frontlegs are not attached to the body with any kind of joint. There are, of course, joints between the forearm and the humerus, and between humerus and shoulderblade. Some people think of the humerus and the shoulderblade as parts of the body of the horse, but you will soon begin to think of them differently. The drawing to the right shows a skeletal view of the horse from the front. The shoulderblades are yellow, the humerus is green and the forearm is blue. The thorax also happens to be blue in this drawing, but I'm sure you can tell them apart. The red parts are the muscles that the thorax rests in, slung between the shoulderblades. This is the only thing that connects the frontlegs to the chest of the horse. This is reinforced by tendons in some places. The horse has no collar bone.



A flat and contracted piaffe.Now it might be easier to see, that if the forelegs were relieved of some weight, the chest might not rest so heavy in the sling, and the withers might rise some. It is even so, that if you piaffe a horse of 16 hh correctly, and then measure his height after he has stopped and is again at halt, he will still be higher. This because the muscles of the shoulder sling have been given a slight relief of the load, and regained some tonus to hold the chest up. When you underfeed a horse or especially deprive him of drinking water, the horse's height can be reduced by inches, because the shoulder muscles cannot hold the chest up properly.



Huge frontleg movement without collection.So in collection the horse elevates his forehand relative to the lowered quarters as well as absolutely in comparison to its normal height. This because the hauches lower some, and the relieved forehand rises some. Both changes take place, but of course the lowered haunches and the bending and loading of the hindlegs in all joints, is the cause, and the ride of the forehand is the effect.

Dressage Nouveau - Not All That Glitters...


Huge frontleg movement without collection.Lately scientist have tried to prove that collection is indeed not a shift of weight rearwards to be placed more over the hindlegs. This, presumably, because they watch a supposedly collected horse, and correctly observe that it does indeed not take any weight back over the hindlegs to relieve the forelegs. (The most famous of which is the Clayton report based on Rembrandt's performance at the Olympics.) But they do not stop here any say:

"Hey, these horses don't shift weight back. How's that?"



Olympic passage.But rather they think that
"Since the riders win competitions where collection is terribly important, the horse must be collected. So then collection must not be shifting the weight back, since they don't shift weight back. So let's find out what collection is. "

This somersault of logic is backed up with forceplates, and electrodes, computers and lab equipment to measure what clearly the naked eye can see - horses doing movements on the forehand. Everything is recorded to the last ounce.



'The generals up front and no army behind'.They don't stop and think, hey, maybe our base data is somehow flawed? Maybe Rembrandt wasn't the most collecting horse ever trained to GP, and maybe she won on other merits than collection?


What they forgot is that dressage is a difficult thing. It's not like figure skating, where you can use a camera to see if the girl jumps and revolves around her axis 720 degrees like she claims to, and then etch that into your mind's eye, to be able to tell if other skaters do the same. In dressage, the successful outcome of a movement is usually not based upon measurements. It's measured upon impression. Of course the horse has to do his 720 degrees, if he is doing a double pirouette, but that's the easy part to see. What is harder to see are the qualities that training is supposed to have given the gaits and balance.



Totally disconnected.For example:
The horse appears to be extending his trot because I can clearly see his forelegs go horizontal with each forward grasp. I'd need slow motion footage to be able to tell that the hindlegs don't cooperate in this at all. Indeed, some would need a video camera to observe the hindlegs at all, if one listens to the commentators on TV.

Regarding the use of electronic equipment to somehow measure the facts of dressage, Dr Clayton has made some advances, lately, with the help of classical trainer/writer Paul Belasik. The following is from a lecture he gave in 2003:



A correctly elevated piaffe."...He also spoke of his work with Dr. Hilary Clayton with the force plates. She had multiple international Grand Prix horses do piaffe on the force plate, she also had Mr. Belasik do piaffe and levade on the force plate. This measured the force each foot was using to get off the ground. The results she found were that most of the horses punched down with their shoulders to lift the front feet instead of carrying more with the haunches. Mr. Belasik said he was very nervous about what the force plate would show when he did his piaffe, then levade. He said if it showed that the horse pushed himself into the levade with his shoulders, then everything he believed and worked on for 30 years was wrong. The force plate showed, dramatically in the levade, that the horse lifted the front by taking more weight in the back. The piaffe also showed more pressure in the back and a lightening in the front from collected trot to piaffe. Needless to say he was relieved to have been vindicated. So it does show, through scientific research that the ability to do a piaffe, by lowering the haunches and taking more weight behind, is real and do-able. That the horizantal piaffes we see in the ring are a result of the horses pushing against the ground with their shoulders. "



Exaggerated frontleg movement with not corresponding
action behind.Not very many of those now living and riding/teaching/judging dressage have seen to any extent the correct riding of the classical institutions, or simply a very good rider riding a horse correctly in good balance and throughness. The descreteness of such a show pales in comparison to the modern day breed of warmblood horses who seem to be able to lift their front knees up to chin height no matter what balance.


Exaggerated frontleg movement with not
corresponding action behind.And the best example of this lately is the German Westphalian gelding Farbenfroh. Now, I don't know what kind of training this particular horse has been subjected to, so you can't say I'm biased. I also like Westphalians as much as anyone, and adore chestnuts, so don't say I just dislike the horse. As a matter of fact, I think he has brilliant talent.



Exaggerated frontleg movement in a
front-heavy in the piaffe.The Judges agree with me. He comes throwing himself into a spectacular extension of the trot across the diagonal, the like of which you have never seen. At least the frontlegs. The fact that the hindlegs trail and are unsynchronized to the frontlegs, never parallel to them in any way and that the horse is deep in the neck and behind the vertical boring on the bit cannot be seen through the brilliance of those high white socks of the forelegs kicking out horizontally.



Exaggerated frontleg movement, hollow back
and lagging hindlegs.In my book, the way I've been taught, a horse must learn to collect before he can extend, or he will just throw himself forward on the forehand pushing with trailing hindlegs. This enormous and fantastic gesture with the forelegs is what has been taken advantage of and focused on in this and numerous other modern competition horses. And evidently rightly so. Judges seem to appreciate it. No need to tire the horsewith needless collecting exercises. And this is not just for Farbenfroh.



Exaggerated frontleg movement in a triangulating piaffe.This kind of successfull frontleg gesture does not come from the engagement of the haunches that relieves the frontlegs. The horse only has to hold up one leg at a time, and firmly supported on the other, overweighed frontleg, a gifted horse can throw his leg up really high. He really only needs to have his neck erected so that his poll is far away from the forearm, since the muscle that lifts the forearm attaches at the poll.

So you get it all - the poll is high, the frontlegs lofty and scopey and you look $1.000.000. If you only look at the lifting legs of the front end, of course. If you look at the grounded frontleg, or the hindlegs, or God forbid the butt, you see a different story.

Held Up with Force

Some people think that I rant about rollkur riding and overbent necks. But if there's one thing I really really hate, it's when strong riders with a double bridle habitually pull the neck as far up and back as they can, in the name of collection. This is the most detrimental posture a horse can take with a rider on his back. This does not in any way strengthen him and make him a better mount - it only causes undue stress on the frontlegs, the poll area, the base of the neck, the back under the saddle and the hocks.


Head and neck held up with force.
Some horses seem to be able to handle this. At least they don't break down. They even build plenty of muscle. Quite a few competition horses have over-sized shoulders to their quarters. No doubt, their frontleg tendons probably grow stronger to cope with the stress, just like tough training on firm footing can strengthen a racehorse's frontlegs and tendons, so that he will not break down. But this only happens as the body's "self defence". And that's the legs. They have the resources to strengthen. But the back...

The back, has no sporting chance in this posture. The back is weighed down by the rider. It is lowered by the rider pulling the neck of the horse up into a vertical poise. The horse has no possibility to use the neck to lift the front of the back. It has no possibility to use the neck for balance at all. Any balance mishap will cause the horse's chest to sink deeper between the frontlegs, and the back will hollow even more.



The natural curve of the spine vs the curve created when
held up with force.The back of the horse is constructed in a way, which makes this posture extremely harmful. Under the saddle, the spine goes from being arched upward in the loin area, to being straight and then hollow so that the spine turns up to become the neck, when out of the shoulders.

This makes the part of the back that is under the saddle quite vulnerable to over-extending (sagging) because there's not much there to counter-act it except for the neck.


Held up and hollowed.With a rider on his back, this is the first joint to "give" to the pressure. If you train your horse long-and-low (where the joint straightens out) and strengthen him there for some time, regular riding will not be a problem. But if you instead, pull the neck up high, several, by themselves bad things happen. Together, they are disasterous.

As the neck is raised to become vertical or nearly so, the weight of the head and neck no longer rests suspended from the withers by the topline muscles. Those muscles instead pull the neck down, and the weight of the head and neck presses straight down into the kink at the 1st thoracial vertebra.


The nuchal ligament is is stressed at its insertion and over the axis,
when the horse is overbent and held there with forceThe weight of the neck rests straight down on this sensetive area, where a lot of the nerves from the spinal cord to the frontlegs and body pass. Where the neck joins the body, there's a sharp turn in the spine, so the ligaments and muscles on the underside of the spine is really what is holding it all together.

This area is already hard at work with moving the front legs, and when the horse is on the forehand (which is the norm when held up with force) is also supporting a lot of the bodyweight and the rider's weight.

The nuchal ligament takes a real beating, too. The protrusion of the poll acts as a lever that pulls the nuchal ligament forward and down as the rider pulls the face of the horseround and in. The ligament gets wrapped around the vertebrae of the neck. This causes extreme stress on the insertion and it causes inflamation, ossification (bone build-up) of the back of the skull. The ligament itself can develop bony nodules and mineralize (enrich in bone matter) and become much less elastic. In a study made in Germany 80% of the dressage/jumper horses had these changes, even in those how did not seek veterinary help for problems of the poll. Read further under Rollkur - Effects on the Neck - The Nuchal Ligament>>





Illustrating the modern ideal of pushing behind and braking
infront. An unusually bad illustration of selfcarriage,
compared to alternative photo unless you want to prove an
erroneous specific pointDr Hilary Clayton: "Dressage training changes these basic patterns of braking and propulsion. The hind limbs become almost entirely responsible for providing propulsion, which is in agreement with our traditional concepts. The role of the front limb, however, is not what we would have expected. The front limbs lose most of their propulsive thrust, instead they provide more braking, which is used in combination with the carrying force of the front limbs to push the shoulders and forehand upwards and backwards. Therefore, raising the forehand is much more than simply a result of lowering the hindquarters, it is an active process brought about by the action of the front limbs. A crucial component is the ability to use the braking activity of the front limbs to produce self carriage." (http://cvm.msu.edu/dressage/articles/mcpres/usdfbiom.htm#part4c)



Less pushing, more supporting hindlegs - the frontlegs
do not brakeThis sentiment is to the detriment of horses al around the world. The holy pushing forces of the hindquarters are nullified by the braking forces of the forehand to get some kind of tug-of-war balance and a slow suspended passage-like movement. The use of the photo of Cynthia Ishoy just says it all. (No shadow over Cynthia, we all have those moments. It's just that the photo shouldn't have been chosen to illustrate self-carriage!)

In the illustration above, from the 1988 Olympics, we see a horse that is pushing the croup up (letting the back sag) with his holy pushing powers, while he is braking with the frontlegs, to get a passage-like movement. If we instead look at a horse that pushes less and supports more, we see the difference in the use of the frontlegs as well. It's not about "opposing forces", it's about prolonging the supporting stance phase (while shortening the push-off) of the hindleg with good bend in the joints, and thus take more load over to the hindlges.

More will be added here...








Training the Eye


A Breyer model in piaffeSome images seem to etch into your mind's eye, and stay with you forever. Personally, I have a slow-motion sequence of the German Trakehner stallion Kostolany piaffing in the most rhythmical and powerful way I had ever seen. I can see it as soon as I close my eyes. It stays with me as a high goal to strive for. So a picture, or in this case, a short video sequence, can really affect your riding and your goals. And it goes both ways - A bad image can effect you badly as well.

That's why I worry about all those zillions of photos, logos and paintings portraying incorrect piaffes, passages, extensions, etc, that you see every day. If you take 10 logos for dressage related companies (those that have a horse in the logo) you will have 9 that depict incorrectly executed dressage movements. Most drawn horses will have their polls low and their noses behind the vertical, over-extended frontleg, un-synchronized front and hind ends and sticking out rumps. One might think that in a drawing, one would be able to produce a "perfect" movement. But, no.

It is not limited to small companies that cannot afford a more expensive research into the correctness of what is to be depicted, either. It’s the biggest and the best German dressage warmblood breeders, all kinds of big name trainers and Bereiters, writers of books etc, seem to be unknowing of the fact that the logos portray a stylised version of what is incorrect. Or maybe it is so, that they know exactly what they are doing, and depict something that spectators are used to seeing in the competition arena. I’m sure many onlookers would find the logos portraying a stiff “above the bit” horse if they were to portray it correctly, since over-bending has become the norm.

I want to start with the breyer horses, and not particularly because they are somehow the worst. They’re quite cute, so it’s not that. It’s just that there are many models, and some correspond very well to how we “want” to see dressage horses. There are some of the piaffe and there’s one of Flim-Flam at the canter and quite a few andalusians just standing normally, and they are all overbent and BTV. There’s a cute trot figure of an appaloosa, where the hindlegs lag in the trot. Quite a few of the horses have stocky necks that are ewe, and have unsynchronised limbs and sticking out rumps.

When I was a child, I would draw horses all the time. I didn’t know anything about horses’ movements or bodily build-up in any way. So many of my creations from that time show overbent horses with their legs left and right and sticking out rumps and sway backs and swan necks. Because that’s what I found the most expressive.

I have heard similar stories from adult riders who claim to know a bit about dressage, too. That a piaffe where the rump sticks out looks a lot more powerful and moves more so it is more dynamic. Most all dressage riders love the flicking toes in the extended trot. Some post on forums asking how to get their horses to flick. Some defend it as “the horse’s personal way of expressing himself” and there is some truth to that. Some horses begin to flick as soon as they lose a little balance in the extensions, and some will never do it. But it is still a balance flaw, and not a beautiful way of expressing the gaits!

So you can really say that any picture or sculpture that shows a horse doing a movement, will look better to most people if the details are excessive. If the horse arches the neck in piaffe, we need to really arch it to make it look even better.

I think that’s OK when it comes to Breyer horses. Barely OK. But when the same thing happens when they erect a huge sculpture of the late Donnerhall, that is just too much! Some will argue that it’s his crest that sticks up, but on this statue you can tell that the greates bend in the neck is between the 2nd and the 3rd vertebrae. His withers are not raised and his croup is not tucked. And even if they wanted to be true to nature and depict him as he really looked in the arena, they could at least have looked for pictures where he was a little more correct, even if the correctness was the result of a mishap! There must be some correct pictures of this world famous stallion!

And now we gently enter into the chapter on photographs . If you look through the exquisite photo displays of the databases of our great horse photographers, like Arnd Bronkhorst, Phelps, Hippofoto, etc you will see that there are millions of photos to choose from. Even if you want a photo of a particular combo at a specific competition, there are still many. Like Anky van Grunsven’s ride on Salinero in the World Cup final in Düsseldorf 2004. Dirk Caremans has 35 photos of her, 42 of Sven Rothenberger, and 28 of Edward Gal. Either one of them winning, it should be easy to pick a photo where they look good. 1 out of 28-42 photos must be good. But sometimes, there isn't even one showing a correct horse and rider, and some of the times (I would say, mostly) they pick the most extreme one, like choosing a still from an action movie for the cover. Grrr.

Kyra has a popular series of videotapes out, where she describes everything from communication to collection and training the mind. A lot of it is good, and it wouold be even better, if one didn't look at the footage.

The following are her voice-over comments on collection in general and the succession of footage that are in the background as she says it, to illustrate: (my translation)







Working trot, starting out behind the vertical
Kyra:
"By nature, the horse supports 70% of its bodyweight on the forehand, and with the rider sitting behind the withers the horse is even more weighed down in front."






Collected trot, still behind the vertical
Kyra:
"So we want to displace the weight backwards and to be able to do that, the horse must support more weight behind."






Passage, still behind the vertical
Kyra:
"For that to be possible, the horse must bend the joints of the hindlegs more, and that's why the croup lowers."






Piaffe, still behind the vertical
Kyra:
"As the forehand becomes lighter, the horse can erect the neck and with the poll as the highes point, move the nose in towards the vertical."


What she's saying is old news, but totally OK. What we're seeing meanwhile seems to have nothing to do with her voice-over whatsoever. The horse is as front heavy as ever, and the nose could be approaching the vertical from behind, if the gods were willing, but unfortunately they are grumpy today. I find it strange, to write and say such a thing, and then presumably watch ones own tape, and somehow be able to see what isn't there. It is so glaringly obvious.




Some food for thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tierra]

Hmmm, im not sure tbh. Ive never actually had anyone tell me how high the steps should be! Its always been more focussed on ensuring the rhythm is correct and the collection is achieved.

From experience, most of the horses ive worked with raise their legs to just above the fetlock - although higher steps with the front legs is quite common.

In regards to the research Kerilli speaks of - yes its absolutly true. It was an investigation into the effects of modern methods (e.g. rollkur and draw reins) versus classical training on the end result; that is to say, the advanced dressage horse.

The experiment was conducted by dr.clayton and involved the use of force plates on the ground. It featured several GP level dressage horses trained using various modern methods and the classical trainer / rider / writer Paul Belasik.

The results showed that the GP horses were punching down much harder with their forelegs in a more straggling fashion in the piaffe. For the classically trained horse a huge difference on the pressure plates was seen on the front legs as true collection was acheived and the weight was shifted back correctly onto the hind legs.

The classically trained horse showed elevation over the whole front end (this was then demonstrated when he went on to levade), the modern trained horses showed elevation of the neck but not of the front end at all.

Indeed it was this research that sparked the debate about introducing levade to competitive dressage with the argument that a horse who had been correctly trained and could produce a true passage would easily be able to progress to the levade. Where as the horse that didnt show collection through the piaffe would never be able to move onto the levade.

 

[kerilli]

Freestyler, where is that from please? and thanks so much for posting it.
it isn't Gerd Heuschmann, is it? he was very scathing about the exaggerated front-leg extension with hindlegs not matching the angles of the frontlegs at all.
always makes me think of german soldiers goose-stepping, it is so exaggerated and ridiculous. poor horses.

 

[Tierra]

The passage copied by freestyler was written by Theresa from sustainabledressage.com

Gerd's studies on the mis-matching of leg action were more focussed on the effects of rollkur and draw rein use, shortening the muscle between the base of the head and the foreleg creating uneven gaits in trot. Hes done some work with Anja Beran about why such horses wont piaffe correctly and most of the conclusions on that came back to the fact that the horses never learn to take the weight back onto their hind quarters and dont develop the correct muscles over either their backs or necks to allow them to work correctly at higher levels.

 

[kerilli]

Thankyou, Tierra, most informative.

 

[Willow1306]

Thanks for all your replies ...

My project is actually concerning Rollkur vs. Traditional and my hypothetical experiment is looking to see if the use of Rollkur can increase the height of the step in the gait, specifically looking at Piaffe and Passage. I read somewhere that Piaffe should only be relatively 'low' yet a lot of the horses trained with Rollkur tend to have a higher, more elaborate step in the Piaffe which is actually wrong and therefore marking highly for such Piaffe's is wrong.
Thinking back now it may have been an article concerning the role dressage judges are playing in dressage moving away from its traditional routes and not so much the articles like the very good one above from sustainable dressage.

There are some great illustrations for the argument about absolute and relative absolution showing the way the hind quarters should work and how in some circumstances they work totally differently. (on sustainabledressage.com - a must read IMO)

Cheers Xx

 

[FREESTYLER]

I was going to say I wrote it myself!!!!Tehe!!! Yup, very interesting site and informative.......

 

[Tierra]

Hiya,

You are correct in what you say. One of the side effects of rollkur is that the muscle which connects the base of the horses head to the forearm (the brachiocephalic muscles) physically become shortened. This causes the front leg action to become higher than is normal and almost snappy in the way it moves.

While some dressage riders, and indeed judges, find this aesthetically pleasing, rollkur has zero effect on the action of the hind legs.

The result is a mismatched gait and is VERY commonly seen in international areans where, if you drew a line down the centre of the horse; the front end doesnt appear to match the hind leg in the action of the legs.

That being said, its generally expected for the forelegs to be lifted slightly higher in the piaffe than the hind legs. The key is to remembering that from a classical point of view, the piaffe is the pre-requisite training for the levade. So at this point in training, the horse should be taking a considerable amount of weight back onto his haunches and lightening the whole of the forhand. In itself, this creates a higher step with the front legs, usually, than with the back legs.

http://reiter.spass.com/dressur_ordner/images/reitkunst05.jpg

http://www.frisones.com/admin/Doso%20Piaffe%20Jerez%20Equisur.JPG

The second picture above shows quite drammatically, how much weight should be shifted backwards in the piaffe but you will also notice the much higher front leg lift being displayed.

Again here:-

http://www.frisones.com/admin/Habilidoso%20Piaffe.JPG

You can see here you can almost imagine a split second of suspension with the piaffe in the forelegs as they switch over with nearly all the weight being held by the hind legs.

http://www.ablingerdressage.com/gerhard_piaffe.jpg

Remembering again, that its pre-req work for this:-

http://www.ablingerdressage.com/Gerhard_levade.jpg

You begin to see why the degree of collection should be seen in piaffe.

This can then be compared with the more modern piaffe :-

http://www.schwungfarm.com/images/MalachiPiaffe1.jpg

http://www.lakewebdesign.com/WC-freestyleHTML/Anky-piaffe_std.jpg

(slightly poor angle in the above but still shows the lack of weight carried behind)

http://www.art2ride.com/images/piaffe%202.jpg

In none of these piaffes could you ever imagine the horse going on to learn levade for instance. They are completly incorrect!

Theres a collection of videos on youtube that also document rollkur being used at a number of high profile events over the years:-

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wm-vYMKKyZM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J5pH5CEoZks&feature=related

(that will show the link to many of them in the right hand side)

The second one linked is really rather shocking imo.

kerilli mentioned dr heushmann earlier and here is a quotation directly from him about the use of draw reins and rollkur and the effect it has on the ability to piaffe:-

"It takes about two years for the muscular arch from the poll via the upper neck with a stable connection to the withers, the back muscles and the croup muscles into the long ischiadic muscles, to be developed and stabilised.

Horses that have been restricted from their earliest years onward, particularly with draw reins, are never capable of devloping this dynamic, powerful swinging arch. These horses only work with clamped back muscles. This is why they recede the neck, which is usually "broken" in front of the withers, tense up the long back muscle and raise their hind legs by means of an also tensed up croup and ischiadic muscles. Bringing the haunches under is impossible as the decisive training steps required for this never took place in their youth.

A draw-rein horse never has the chance to work correctly via and with the back, to develop a strong, correctly muscled upper neck and enough thrust to make it strong enough later to bring under the haunches.

This is why it is not any wonder that at Grand Prix level, you rarely find a horse with honest and correct haunches. Such a horse has to learn to go properly forward first of all - just like a green horse - in order to subsequently be able to come back onto the hind legs. It is a case here of the horse requiring correction."

The problem is that rollkur wins gold medals. Its very very difficult to find pictures or footage of good piaffes, nice correct trots and correct outlines. Due to this, its become the norm to see over bent horses with unconnected backs and very dodgy gaits. Whilever people can win at international level by using these training techniques; even when it produces completly incorrect horses, there is no motivation for any change to occur. People completly underestimate the amount of time, effort and work goes into learning to ride correctly and producing horses correctly and most seem to lack the motivation to learn.

Ive done a brief (very brief to be honest) discussion of rollkur on my blog if you want to check that our at :-

http://dressage.wordpress.com/category/rollkur/

 

[JLav]

The simple answer is according to the FEI guidelines as follows:-

The height of the toe of the raised forefoot should be level with the middle of the cannon bone of the supporting foreleg. The toe of the raised hindfoot should reach just above the fetlock joint of the supporting hindleg.

The problem we see with alot of modern piaffes is that they appear to be in a rather horizontal balance instead of showing the ability to really sit and take the weight behind. The result of this is a smoother more regular piaffe which is easier for the horse to do and results in it being easier to make the transition into the passage. The piaffe then almost becomes more of a passage on the spot rather than a true piaffe. We see in this in many horse today not just those who have been 'rolkured'.

The marking in the modern GP puts quite a lot of influenece on the piaffe/passage tour and the transitions between them and by performing a more horizontal piaffe you can still get a fairly good mark (see next paragraph) and you don't compromise the transistions either as obviously its easier for a horse to move forward into the passage if he hasn't really been sitting in the piaffe!!

If you read the new FEI guidelines for judging (a brilliant book which gives you a definition of every mark from 0 to 10 for every single movement from the most basic to GP) then for a piaffe to be given a 7 the following is acceptable: The steps appear expressive but WITHOUT visible lowering of the hindquaters. There could be more activity and flexion of the joints. (The emphasis is mine).

Whether you agree with this in practise or not it is these guidelines that FEI judges have to judge by and competitors will do what gets them the highest score.

 

[Bossanova]

Fantastic reply Tierra, I enjoyed that

 

[JLav]

Tierra, I agree with your post but I have to say I really don't think that photo of Anky is supposed to be piaffe. I'm no fan of hers but I just cannot see that at all. The horse has too much bend to me and looks like he might just be comming into a half pass or something....?

 

[Halfstep]

I was just thinking the same thing JLav. That's no piaffe. Trot half pass maybe.....


But THIS is a fantastic picture, thanks for posting!
http://www.ablingerdressage.com/gerhard_piaffe.jpg

 

[JLav]

Hmmm.. call me suspicious but why is it that in so many of the photos we see of 'classical' piaffes the ground seems to not be level? They couldn't possibly be tilting them to make them look more uphill could they?

You see in that picture (gerhard_piaffe one) look how high the hind feet are in relation to the front feet (seems too high to me) then look at the slope of the horizon in the picture. I suspect this piaffe actually is alot less sitting then it at first appears.

The picture of the bay with the lady in the red top also appears to be rotated or performed on a slope and I don't like the way the hock and hind foot is too far out behind. The foot should be more under the horse.

 

[xfeex]

http://www.frisones.com/admin/Doso%20Piaffe%20Jerez%20Equisur.JPG

where is the riders head!!!

 

[Halfstep]

Good point JLav. I think you might have put your finger on something rather interesting......