Help/advice desperately needed re horse behaviour.

skychick

skychick

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Get the tea and biscuits ready.....this could be a very long post...but i would really really appreciate some thoughts/advice/help/suggestions, well anything really.

I got my new horse in march. When i tried him he was an angel in the school, the stable and hacked out alone beautifully.
When we moved him home he went to a livery yard and settled beautifully.
For the first week he was wonderfull. He was calm, he hacked out alone again, he went well in the school.
After a week, he changed. He started napping and when i say napping i mean proper napping. Would stop, spin, mini rear, buck, bronc.
Anyway....i have been hacking him out with another horse getting to know the area and have got to know him pretty well and he has been alot better.
He will never be an easy horse to own and he is very strong willed.
I did alot of hacking out with my mum on her bike with no problems, he would hack happily with the bike and i got him to hack alone a few times with no issues.
10 days ago he went onto 24/7 turn out and he has turned into a deamon.
He can be a bit funny in his stable at times, as in a bit fidgety and he isnt keen on being groomed but i have now changed brushes and he is fine with being groomed.
If he is stabled and another horse goes past he can get a bit fidgety if he is untied and rear in his stable but never used to do this whilst being tied up. In fact just before he went out 24/7 he was brilliant to tie up anywhere and would stand fairly quietly.
Anyway, the day after he had gone onto 24/7 turnout we went for a hack alone (after 2 good hacks alone the previous 2 days) and he was awfull. He napped, reared, jumped in the hedges the whole way. Even when i got off to lead him he was spinning and jumping around. I persevered and eventually got him to go where i wanted. then we came home. He even napped on the way home.
It cant be spring grass....as he is on a starvation paddock with just a small amount of haylidge. He is a very good doer.
Since he has been out 24/7 he has become a nightmare in his stable too. He wont stand still to be groomed, literally tries to turn from one way to the other crushing me in the process. He yanks back on his leadrope and sits back on his haunches. He rears and yanks on his lead rope.
Yet to lead him he is absolutely perfect, never strong, never silly. Perfect to catch, i ride him out to the field in a headcollar most nights and he never rushes or messes about. I can stop him with no trouble at all.
I went for a hack on sunday morning early with a friend and he even napped going out of the yard despite the other horse just walking on, he has never done that. His behavious has just gone completely insane.
I really believe he is not confident out hacking at all. So lastnight i decided to lead him out. He was absolutely perfect. Just walked on a loose rope the whle way. We went out for about 8 miles. I lead him right up to the field gate where the pig is, he just stood their and took no notice of it. Normally he hates it. He didnt spook once and he normally spooks at everything.
A kid kicked a football out of a gate and it rolled right underneath him, he acted like he hadnt seen it. There is a sheet metal gate that he normally wont walk past...he walked past it fine and i let him touch his nose on it and he just sniffed it and walked off.

I am just so confused by his behaviour.

Why has he suddenly got really funny in his stable?
Why had he suddenly decided that he doesnt want to leave the yard unless i lead him?

And to make it even more odd, when i got back lastnight, i tied him up and he was fine in his stable and i cleaned his sheath and faffed about and he just stood there, yet 2 hours earlier he was yanking on his headcollar, rearing, pawing the ground and nipping and generally being hideous.

Am so confused. He is never going to be a saint but this its getting to the point where i cant groom him/tack him up without a fight.

HELP!
 
Regarding the napping.......i have tried being firm....he gets evil, as in massive bucks, jumping around etc.
I have tried sitting it out....he just mini rears and runs backwards and climbs hedges.

He has been passed around alot as being 14.2 and a good jumping pony, he has been bought for children and he is very much not a childs pony. I think people have possibly been heavy handed with him in the past. He doesnt really seem to trust people as such, and he is not a "cuddly" horse.
Hence im now going to try the leading him out in hand to try and get him confident out on the lanes on his own and let him see that things are not scary etc.
Im just more concered about the sudden atrocious stable behaviour :-(
 
your story is very simular to what i have been through with my current mare.

with out all the details after now 2 yard moves and her being a good girl i deffinatley put it down to the yard i 1st had her on..

im sorry thats not much help i know but i really think its worth a thought, as i tried so many things and it ended with me hating my horse, being scared to get on her and putting her up for sale.

One of my big clues was at comps she was the laid back horse i bought. (ok well shes a fit tb x wb mare shes never going to be a complete donkey lol)

I would think alot of the hacking and in the stable issues you are having is very possibley the beginings of a bit of seperation anxiety.

what do you think? could it be a possibility?
 
Sorry no advice apart from keep working with him. Laura with Lucy and Herbie may be able to give you some better help as she works with last chance ponies, so may have some good tips.

Cann't remember her full user name tho, sorry I'm rubbish with names.
 
Its a possibility, although the yo always makes sure he is out in the field with a couple of others and never left alone in the barn etc.
Yesterday he was in the stable with a horse either side of him and one opposite so he could touch noses with them if he wanted....but still he was a complete and utter nightmare hence i didnt even try and ride and lead him out.

I think he is very much a horse that loves a routine and so maybe he was just starting to settle down and then has been turned out 24/7 and its completely unsettled him again.

All of the posts i have posted about him prob make him out to be a complete nutcase...he actually is a lovely pony....just a bit complex lol!!!
 
Picolnicole, i know who you mean, i keep threatening to send paddy to her!!!!

Its so annoying, 10 days ago we were making fantastic progress....and now we have gone a million steps backwards overnight.
 
My gelding went though the same thing, in the end I had to take him back to basics, leading him out in hand every day, twice aday, once he got used to going out a long and he knew he was actually coming back to his field I got on board, although I was very film with him I didn't lose my temper or let him get away with anything, within a week we were hacking out beautifully.
 
bring him back in then??

Who else handles him apart from you? If he is naughty in the stable then tie him up and leave him there do not give him a haynet you are only rewarding his bad behavour (this does depend how strong your stables are of course)

get someone like an instructor or a bigger stronger (maybe a man) to hack him out and see if he does the same
 
Forgot to say, the napping/spinning etc happened to my other lad, turns out his saddle was too small, although everyone was putting it down to bad behavior as he was a youngster but I didn't feel it was, ditched the saddle and he was back to normal.
 
I hear what your saying, but again its simular to my mare, horses all around her etc yet i couldnt tie her up or put her in a stable.. she bordered dangerous tied up and in the stable.
it was the same in the field.

she didnt start off with these issues it all came on slowley.

if you think its routine, leave him in the field for a week, and then introduce him to a routine of brining him in for a feed back out, then a haynet and groom and back out etc. build it up slowely. it may seem tedious but in the long run it could be the making of him.

I know they try our patiance when they are like this, but i really dont think getting heavy handed with him is going to help you. (im not saying you have been but i know how tempting it is) repititon, quiet but firm and clear handling and time may just be what he needs.

with the hacking , i think once you have things sorted at home it will fall into place, as again it sounds like hes chucking hes toys out and wants to get back to his friends.
 
RSL said:
My gelding went though the same thing, in the end I had to take him back to basics, leading him out in hand every day, twice aday, once he got used to going out a long and he knew he was actually coming back to his field I got on board, although I was very film with him I didn't lose my temper or let him get away with anything, within a week we were hacking out beautifully.
Click to expand...

This is what i am hoping happens with paddy, im hopeing that if we walk out in hand around all of the local hacking routes for a couple of weeks he well see that we go out, we have a nice time, we can have a nose in other peoples gardens etc and then we come home and then he can go back out to the field and play.
Im hopeing it will also help us to bond a bit and learn to trust that im not going to hurt him.
Im hopeing it will also help my waistline too! ;-)
 
We turned our horses round 5 days ago. They now out at night & in during the day. My TB has become much spookier to hack out since we did this. My thinking is that my horse may be doing this because now he is out all night, he's staying awake and alert all night, on the look out for predators??? There are no predators obviously, but does my horse understand?
I am no expert by any means, but I am wondering if this has anything to do with it?


The other reasons your horse may have started playing up is that something might be hurting him? Have you had his back and teeth checked recently. Also have a good look at his saddle. If he is in any discomfort when he's ridden, then he may also be anticipating the pain when you are handling him on the ground before you ride.
 
jhoward said:
I hear what your saying, but again its simular to my mare, horses all around her etc yet i couldnt tie her up or put her in a stable.. she bordered dangerous tied up and in the stable.
it was the same in the field.

she didnt start off with these issues it all came on slowley.

if you think its routine, leave him in the field for a week, and then introduce him to a routine of brining him in for a feed back out, then a haynet and groom and back out etc. build it up slowely. it may seem tedious but in the long run it could be the making of him.

I know they try our patiance when they are like this, but i really dont think getting heavy handed with him is going to help you. (im not saying you have been but i know how tempting it is) repititon, quiet but firm and clear handling and time may just be what he needs.

with the hacking , i think once you have things sorted at home it will fall into place, as again it sounds like hes chucking hes toys out and wants to get back to his friends.
Click to expand...

Thats a very good idea re the bringing in for short periods then back out and building it up slowly.
He is definately not a horse to get heavy handed with, i got cross with him the other day when he was rearing etc (not hitting him etc just shouted at him) and it made him a million times worse.
I shall definately try what you have suggested.
 
I would say maybe it's a change of routine. Horses can be very sensitive. I have a Mare who I cannot do much with, if she feels like it. She is really very spooky. I think she is very sensitive and a bit clever with it too.

Now don't take this the wrong way... But.. When you lead him out. Can you honestly say that you were not alot calmer than hacking him out on board??

What I mean is, horses being so sensitive, if your like me who feels they have far more control on the ground then on board (as I normally end up on the ground anyway) then do you think he walked out fine as candy because you had no 'worries' of coming into problems?

x
 
Misinterpreted said:
We turned our horses round 5 days ago. They now out at night & in during the day. My TB has become much spookier to hack out since we did this. My thinking is that my horse may be doing this because now he is out all night, he's staying awake and alert all night, on the look out for predators??? There are no predators obviously, but does my horse understand?
I am no expert by any means, but I am wondering if this has anything to do with it?


The other reasons your horse may have started playing up is that something might be hurting him? Have you had his back and teeth checked recently. Also have a good look at his saddle. If he is in any discomfort when he's ridden, then he may also be anticipating the pain when you are handling him on the ground before you ride.
Click to expand...

I did wonder if the fact that being out 24/7 means they are getting less sleep etc....and hence he is displaying behaviour like a child that is over tired.:confused:

He is having his teeth done next week they were done 9 months ago so were due for a check. I have also got a physio coming out next week too (it was the soonest i could get one) and she is going to have a look at him.
He had a brand new saddle fitted last week as his old one didnt fit him brilliantly. It was properly fitted and since it was fitted i have had it checked by someone else to get a second opinion (im a pedantic so and so ;) )Both were happy it fitted perfectly. And it will be checked again in 4 weeks once it has moulded to him and if necessary adjusted, reflocked, stuffed, etc if it needs it.
The saddle fitted did notice a bit of tension in his neck around his poll....but this is more than likely where he has been yanking on his headcllar when tied up. Hence the physio is coming next week. She has spoken to my vet and he is happy for her to come and give paddy a thorough examination.

Fingers crossed once he has had a full MOT and a bit of going back to basics he will be a bit happier agian.
 
A couple of thoughts to add to the above.

Groundwork - good skill to develop. In the school an effective but kind way to keep the horse focused on HIS job. Out and about, you can deal with the bucking, rearing and spinning, without putting your confidence on the line (take someone with you to walk at his head).

Confidence - it sounds as if he may lack confidence and shows it in bad behaviour when his routine is changed. You should work slowly on this by introducing new things - the confidence in gains in one area will pay benefits in his overall confidence. For example, my new horse hates unbrellas and bicycles, so when I have a few moments I walk around with an umbrella and cycle past his field.
 
heidirusso said:
I would say maybe it's a change of routine. Horses can be very sensitive. I have a Mare who I cannot do much with, if she feels like it. She is really very spooky. I think she is very sensitive and a bit clever with it too.

Now don't take this the wrong way... But.. When you lead him out. Can you honestly say that you were not alot calmer than hacking him out on board??

What I mean is, horses being so sensitive, if your like me who feels they have far more control on the ground then on board (as I normally end up on the ground anyway) then do you think he walked out fine as candy because you had no 'worries' of coming into problems?

x
Click to expand...

I think it could well be the change of routine. Friends have suggested spring grass but he literally has enough to pick at and thats it. He is on the starvation paddocks with the others that get fat at the drop of a hat!

They certainly are very sensitive. It may be that, but before riding him out i had been making a point of making sure i was completely calm, if i was stressed at work i wouldnt ride that night and would just groom/handle him instead or do some jumping, something that would involve no confrontation.
When i was riding him out with the bike/alone, i literally would ride him out with longish stirrups, loose reins and almost ride like a sack of potatoes so that i was completely not tense in any way and would talk and sing etc the whole time.
Its always been the case that i can lead him anywhere calmly. He is very good on the lead rein.
It could just be that he has off days so to speak and on those days i have to realise that its best not riding etc rather than having a battle with him.
But you could well be right that maybe without realising it i am tense when riding moreso than leading him.
 
when they pull back/rear up when tied up etc they can put there poll out, it basically meens all the muscels are pulled tight, i know your not likly to at the moment but often they will carry their head to one side or lean one way more than the other. Its very common in horses and often goes un noticed. good news there is that its easy enough to put right.

I would also think that will all his antics he would be tight over the back and quarters.. sorry didnt mention it before as i recalled you were due to have physio out.
 
March isn't that long ago, and the things that you mention that stick out as relevant to me are:

He's had a lot of homes
He likes routine and his has been changed several times recently
He is talented, so most likely an intelligent pony
He is a jumping pony, so most likely not done a lot of hacking in previous homes

A tricky one! I think if the leading him around the lanes works for you both, then do that for a while. Get him to focus on you as much as you can, so he sees you as a leader and someone he is safe with.

Any chance he has focused on one horse in the field, and he likes that horse and doesn't want to leave it? It sounds more like he is panicking than being outright nasty.
 
canteron said:
Confidence - it sounds as if he may lack confidence and shows it in bad behaviour when his routine is changed. You should work slowly on this by introducing new things - the confidence in gains in one area will pay benefits in his overall confidence. For example, my new horse hates unbrellas and bicycles, so when I have a few moments I walk around with an umbrella and cycle past his field.
Click to expand...

I think you have definately hit the nail on the head there, i really do think its a confidence thing.
People have just said "oh he is just trying it on, he is just being naughty, give him a bloody good smack and he will be fine" to be completely honest i dont agree. I had someone else ride him who "made" him go down the lane and sat to everything he threw at them, is he any better now.....no he is not.
Hence i dont think he is the sort of horse that you either hit, use spurs, have someone stand behind with a lungewhip, etc etc. Ok he may go down the road out of force, but he is not going to enjoy it or want to do it again.
He hacks out with his eyes on stalks, shallow breathing, looking at everything and is very spooky....so i think that by doing what you say...introduce things gradually that will biuld his confidence is totally the way to go.
Last night when i walked him out i let him look in every gateway that he would normally jump at, i lead him right up to the cows that had their heads over the gate and just let him stand there for a few mins and sniff them and watch them and the same with the pig. I also let him sniff the salt and grit bins, dustbins, the sheet metal gate, the chain link fencing etc, so hopefully by doing that for a while he will see that these things are not going to jump on him and attack him.
Really good advice, thank you very much.
 
jhoward said:
when they pull back/rear up when tied up etc they can put there poll out, it basically meens all the muscels are pulled tight, i know your not likly to at the moment but often they will carry their head to one side or lean one way more than the other. Its very common in horses and often goes un noticed. good news there is that its easy enough to put right.

I would also think that will all his antics he would be tight over the back and quarters.. sorry didnt mention it before as i recalled you were due to have physio out.
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You are quite right, you kindly posted when i asked who to have out to look at backs after i described paddy, am struggling to get a physio out as quickly as i wanted one....seems every man and his dog has booked them up untill the first week in june.
I didnt ride him in his old saddle again and he has got a lovely new one now...£700 later ;-) plus a nice new sheepskin numnah for extra comfort (thanks mum for the early birthday present lol!)
He does bend slightly to the outside when i am on the right rein and strikes off on the wrong canter lead on this rein too. I totally agree that with his rearing and messing around (he is a bit partial to hooning around the field like an idiot at times!) that he has got some tightning in the back and quarters.
Another reason why i am happy to walk him out in hand untill the physio has been and his teeth have been done and i know that everything is ok so that i can rule pain out of this.
Im glad that it is something that can be easily put right if it is just a case of tight muscles. Fingers crossed.
 
StaceyTanglewood said:
bring him back in then??

Who else handles him apart from you? If he is naughty in the stable then tie him up and leave him there do not give him a haynet you are only rewarding his bad behavour (this does depend how strong your stables are of course)

get someone like an instructor or a bigger stronger (maybe a man) to hack him out and see if he does the same
Click to expand...

Thanks for your post. Since he has been out its just me that handles him.
Before it was my YO.
In his stable he is never allowed hay when he is tied up and he is always tied up short.
I can tie him up and leave him there and he just carries on kicking, scraping, rearing, sitting back on his haunches.
Re the hacking out....he will do it with anyone. I had my instructor ride him and make him go down the lane. it makes no difference next time he just does the same again. He is nt the sort of horse to get a "man" to handle. He is just scared i think. He is not strong at all when ridden or being lead.
 
And just thought to add, when you are leading him, you are on the floor with him so in his mind more likely to be eaten first than he would be, so that gives him the confidence, if you get the herd mentality! So I doubt you are transmitting your worries to him when you ride, he just feels so much safer with you walking along with him rather than up above him.

And agree with the other posters - if he is out all night, he probably isn't sleeping and is on high alert. My daughter's horse came from a yard where they never went out at night, so the first week that I turned him out all night here, he was completely zonked out in his stable all day, catching up on the zzzzzz'ds. My horse also gets more spooky when he is out 24/7 as he is the herd leader and feels it's his job to stay alert all night. I feel sorry for him, when I see them in the morning, the others are all flat out asleep and he is still standng up, on guard. Maybe your horse is more dominant and so has become the herd leader of that field, and is doubly stressed. It will get better, I am sure.
 
Sounds like saddle and does he have a best mate since 24/7 turnout. My new horse whom I've had since Oct has gotten attached to my young Welsh D, and has suddenly taken to Bunny hopping in and out of the paddocks:o as he pleases, doesn't matter whether electric fence on or post and rail, at lest he clears them. But his behavior sounds pain related.
 
I think its a combination of all of those things....although....the thing is...he has hacked alone in the past.
He has had a lot of owners in his life, but one girl (the person who owned him before the girl i bought him from) had him for 4 years. When she had him she used to hack him alone, as did a 10 year old. She did evrythig with him, jumping, xc, fun rides, etc.
The girl i bought him from had had him 6 months. She was 13 and had gone from a laid back pony to him because she wanted something "lively and forward going" but couldnt cope with it.
TBH he actually isnt either. I wouldnt call him forward going really, and i wouldnt call him lively. He is spooky but not one for jogging sideways when you are trying to stand still or anything like that.
I have talked to the girl who owned him for 4 years alot. She never had any dramas like i am having with him. He didnt napp etc with her.
Also when he came to me he was very headshy....that is now pretty much stopped, i can handle his ears, open his mouth, storke his face, brush is face etc with no issues.
So she is worried that something happened in the 6 months he was with the girl i brought him from.
So i am hopeing it is just a confidence issue that i can over the summer work on and build his confidence so that we can enjoy doing lots of fun things.
 
skychick said:
I think its a combination of all of those things....although....the thing is...he has hacked alone in the past.
He has had a lot of owners in his life, but one girl (the person who owned him before the girl i bought him from) had him for 4 years. When she had him she used to hack him alone, as did a 10 year old. She did evrythig with him, jumping, xc, fun rides, etc.
The girl i bought him from had had him 6 months. She was 13 and had gone from a laid back pony to him because she wanted something "lively and forward going" but couldnt cope with it.
TBH he actually isnt either. I wouldnt call him forward going really, and i wouldnt call him lively. He is spooky but not one for jogging sideways when you are trying to stand still or anything like that.
I have talked to the girl who owned him for 4 years alot. She never had any dramas like i am having with him. He didnt napp etc with her.
Also when he came to me he was very headshy....that is now pretty much stopped, i can handle his ears, open his mouth, storke his face, brush is face etc with no issues.
So she is worried that something happened in the 6 months he was with the girl i brought him from.
So i am hopeing it is just a confidence issue that i can over the summer work on and build his confidence so that we can enjoy doing lots of fun things.
Click to expand...


sorry that was a reply to llewellyn
 
johnrobert said:
Sounds like saddle and does he have a best mate since 24/7 turnout. My new horse whom I've had since Oct has gotten attached to my young Welsh D, and has suddenly taken to Bunny hopping in and out of the paddocks:o as he pleases, doesn't matter whether electric fence on or post and rail, at lest he clears them. But his behavior sounds pain related.
Click to expand...

Umm i wouldnt really say he has a best mate as such. He never takes any notice of the horse on one side of him and the horse on the other side he will nuzzle occasionally but they arnt what i would call pally. He doesnt care if she goes out and he doesnt.

TBH....i would be relieved if it was pain related(dont take that the wrong way)....as i will do anything to make sure that he has the best care medically if i know he is in pain. So once i know where he is sore/stiff etc, i can get him sorted. If that helps sort out his behaviour that is just an added bonus. If its not pain related then i will just have to go back to basics and be prepared to do a lot of walking!!
People wonder why i am persevereing......but on a good day....he is a fantastic pony.
 
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